Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44983 Dec 7, 2012
Good Morning Judging Fan

Would you like a cup of coffee?

Do you speak Urdu?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44985 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know with certainty that "objects" dont have sentience?
Excellent point.

Many women are convinced that at least some men's brains are located there.
Abdalla Ovadia Cohen

Israel

#44987 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesnt add to the discussion
Zionism is a part of the religion, it predates the current conflict by about 3000 years. Its in the Jewish prayers which are at least that old. The notion that Zionism started in the 1880s is not accurate. Its been around a few thousand years BEFORE Mohammed.
I disagree Frijoles .
As a jewish person , I know that the zionists used the jewish people for the benefit of the anglo american empire .
The word "zion" is in the bible but not zionism .
Most of the jewish leaders and jewish communities are against zionism .
Zionists has tried to create a modern non jewish state like other western countries .
Rabbi Kook compared between Benjamin Zeev Herzel and Adolf Hitler :
"While Hitler killed jews phisicaly , Herzel killed the jewish spirit" .

Don't get me wrong ,
I think the jewish people should live in Israel and defend themselves but the tie you make between Judaism and Zionism is about 150 years old .
Abdalla Ovadia Cohen

Israel

#44988 Dec 7, 2012
You better search about Herzel who was a proud antisemite .
He has tried to take all of his jewish community and bring them into christianity with a huge ceremony with the pope .
He also didn't circumcise his son .

As a jew , I HATE him !
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44989 Dec 7, 2012
Abdalla Ovadia Cohen wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree Frijoles .
As a jewish person , I know that the zionists used the jewish people for the benefit of the anglo american empire .
The word "zion" is in the bible but not zionism .
Most of the jewish leaders and jewish communities are against zionism .
Zionists has tried to create a modern non jewish state like other western countries .
Rabbi Kook compared between Benjamin Zeev Herzel and Adolf Hitler :
"While Hitler killed jews phisicaly , Herzel killed the jewish spirit" .
Don't get me wrong ,
I think the jewish people should live in Israel and defend themselves but the tie you make between Judaism and Zionism is about 150 years old .
I am not sure what you referring to, its not Zionism - perhaps you are referring to the extreme right wing of the settler movement?

Look at the liturgy. There are references to yearning for Jerusalem and unity throughout. Shemona Esrie, tehillim, etc etc. What is the last pronouncement of Neila?

There are ultra-orthodox who do not recognize the state of israel. That is not the majority of the Jewish people.

Much (but not all) anti-Zionism from the nonJewish population is just a smokescreen for anti-semitism, in my experience and opinion.

Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44990 Dec 7, 2012
Abdalla Ovadia Cohen wrote:
You better search about Herzel who was a proud antisemite .
He has tried to take all of his jewish community and bring them into christianity with a huge ceremony with the pope .
He also didn't circumcise his son .
As a jew , I HATE him !
Hate is a pretty strong word, and an odd choice. What afilliation are you?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44991 Dec 7, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent point.
Many women are convinced that at least some men's brains are located there.
Yep.

Though I was referring to objects in general.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44992 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not sure what you referring to, its not Zionism - perhaps you are referring to the extreme right wing of the settler movement?
Look at the liturgy. There are references to yearning for Jerusalem and unity throughout. Shemona Esrie, tehillim, etc etc. What is the last pronouncement of Neila?
There are ultra-orthodox who do not recognize the state of israel. That is not the majority of the Jewish people.
Much (but not all) anti-Zionism from the nonJewish population is just a smokescreen for anti-semitism, in my experience and opinion.
As usual, looks as though we're discusssing semantics.

Depends on what you mean by "Zionism."

"Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zioni...
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44993 Dec 7, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, looks as though we're discusssing semantics.
Depends on what you mean by "Zionism."
"Zionism as an organized movement is generally considered to have been fathered by Theodor Herzl in 1897; however the history of Zionism began earlier and related to Judaism and Jewish history. The Hovevei Zion, or the Lovers of Zion, were responsible for the creation of 20 new Jewish settlements in Palestine between 1870 and 1897.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zioni...
Totally.

Within Israel there are many distinctions within Zionism as a political party as well. i.e. many types of zionist political parties.

But to a Jew in the diaspora - Zionism is Judaism by definition. Has to be. You can't seperate the idea from the practice of the religion. So if you are going to differentiate it, it leads to suspician of motives. When an Arab tells me that are just against Zionism not Jews, it is a codeword.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#44994 Dec 7, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, looks as though we're discusssing semantics.
Semantics is what propells our conversations here!

Though an important distinction would be whether it is semantics, or if the gentleman comes from one of those movements that doesnt recognize the state he lives in. Could be either. But I welcome new blood. I doubt he will respond, it is almost Shabat there now.
William

Trenton, NJ

#44995 Dec 7, 2012
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, in Saudi Arabia -- you can get the death penalty for "preaching" anything except Islam.
Jews don't preach -- we don't go knocking on people's doors and asking them if who they pray to or how they do it.
Most of us find it offensive and impolite.
"the truth is an offense..." well said
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44996 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Semantics is what propells our conversations here!
Though an important distinction would be whether it is semantics, or if the gentleman comes from one of those movements that doesnt recognize the state he lives in. Could be either. But I welcome new blood. I doubt he will respond, it is almost Shabat there now.
Reminds me of the birthers.

The could never accept the 'otherness' of our president.

Though they wouldn't admit the reason.

They dress it up in code language aka dog whistle politics.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44997 Dec 7, 2012
HughBe---Oh, so you believe in a Sentient, Intelligent, Lawmaker etc., very good.

Former--Not in the religious sense.

HughBe-- In what sense do you believe it?

HughBe-- I have NEVER seen atoms vibrating on their own and making anyone, a bird or anything. Have you seen such a thing?

Former--You compare science with religion. Do you know what the scientific method is? Can religion stand up to testing?

HughBe-- Concentrate and answer my question.

Former--So ANYONE you speak to in your mind exists?

HughBe--- ANYONE= any person. So YES.


Former--So you do make room for other religions and other beliefs?

HughBe--- yes

Former--Do you respect the views of others?

HughBe-- I respect the RIGHTS of others to have their own views on things.

Former---I rejected Christianity as a young man.

HughBe--- the folly of youth

Former--See question above.

HughBe-- Again, the folly of youth.

Former--Ever heard the expression "There are no atheists in foxholes"??

HughBe--- No but learn this, there are atheists in the other world.


HughBe-- it is in the quality or lack therteof.Man-made ones tend to be BS.

Former--I've asked you at least 3 times...
How do you distinguish between what it man-made and what is god made??

HughBe-- If I were you I would not have confidence in my numeracy skills. I shall now repeat "Man-made ones tend to be BS." Plus I accept the account of the Jewish people. THINK before you open your mouth again.

Former--Has a man ever spoken any truth at all? MLK perhaps? Ghandi?

HughBe--- surely yes, even you have occasionally.


Former--The Jewish people told you man went to the moon?

HughBe--- quit smoking, that thing

Former--Now you compare religion with history?

HughBe--- I gather than in your mind they are mutually exclusive. Correct that nonsense NOW.

HughBe--- Again, Do you hold a view as to how man came into existence? If yes, prove your belief
No I do not.

Former--Unknown and likely unknowable.

HughBe--- what CS is that? Again, do you hold a view as to how man came into existence?

HughBe-- It most certainly one measure of superiority. Functionality is also important. A dead stick is just that USELESS. Did the INTELLIGENCE comment miss you?

Former--Would your god agree with this?

HughBe--- God is SPIRIT. Dick size is of the flesh and so NO.

Former--The Nazis thought those with blue eyes and blonde hair were superior. Traits one has no control over. Do you also believe this?

HughBe--- What a STUPID question.I don't have "blue eyes and blonde hair " so how could I believe that BS especially since I don't regard nobody as superior to me?

Are you in love with the Nazis? what orifice did you dig it out of before you injected it into the conversation?

Are you an American? Are Americans Nazis? In our lifetime hundreds of millions of whites in your country held the view that they were SUPERIOR to your blacks. Chances are YOU also felt so at some point in your life.

YOU must pay attention to your words. My response is based on what you actually wrote.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44998 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know with certainty that "objects" dont have sentience?
What is your private definition of sentience?

That aside, the last time that I used my sledgehammer and hammered a piece of metal it did not complain.That is how I know.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44999 Dec 7, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought you didn't believe in reincarnation.
HughBe--I promise you that I shall but NOT in this life. When I am reincarnated 3 times then I shall do it.

Former--I thought you didn't believe in reincarnation.

HughBe---I do believe in it and that is why I promised him that I would kiss his tush when I am reincarnated 3 times. All he needs to do is wait and don't get too excited because his great anticipation will make him explode on himself.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45000 Dec 7, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your private definition of sentience?
That aside, the last time that I used my sledgehammer and hammered a piece of metal it did not complain.That is how I know.
Feelings and/or consciousness

When you step on an ant, do you hear it complain?
You ascribe certainty to your own senses?
Are your senses a necessary condition for assessing certainty?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45001 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
me thinks the lady doth protest too much
Yes I'm sexy and I keep telling YOU that I am a MAN. So, control your PERVERTED desires.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45002 Dec 7, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
No Mr. Hugh Be,
Just identifying Corrupt and NUTTY is not the end of matter, it is just the beginning!!
Why are you running away from discussion?
On the other hand I see that you carry on “endless and perpetual discussions” with other people?
Why double standards, might I ask?
MUQ---I know NUTTY and CORRUPT men are the problem

HughBe--- Thank you MUQ for understanding the issue. Case closed.

MUQ--No Mr. Hugh Be,Just identifying Corrupt and NUTTY is not the end of matter, it is just the beginning!!

HughBe--- Certainly identifying the problem cannot be the solution to it but it is the FIRST step.

MUQ--Why are you running away from discussion?

HughBe--- I'm not

MUQ---On the other hand I see that you carry on “endless and perpetual discussions” with other people?
Why double standards, might I ask?

HUghBe--There is no double standard. The thing is some other posters communicate more often with me for a variety of reasons including ATTACKING my views. As a result there are more frequent and greater exchanges with them and also greater familiarity which makes me feel free to ask them anything.

Take my boy Frijoles, just recently I asked him about his DREAMS the fellow did not answer. He was too shy it seems.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45003 Dec 7, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Feelings and/or consciousness
When you step on an ant, do you hear it complain?
You ascribe certainty to your own senses?
Are your senses a necessary condition for assessing certainty?
HughBe--What is your private definition of sentience?
That aside, the last time that I used my sledgehammer and hammered a piece of metal it did not complain.That is how I know.

Frijoles---Feelings and/or consciousness

HughBe-- ok but recall that you spoke about OBJECTS.

Frijoles--When you step on an ant, do you hear it complain?

HughBe--- I don't but that is because my hearing is not keen enough.

Frijoles--You ascribe certainty to your own senses?

HughBe--- and that of others. It is hard for me to be certain about things without evidence of their existence or the words of a CREDIBLE source.

Frijoles--Are your senses a necessary condition for assessing certainty?

HughBe--- Not only plus divine revelations.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45004 Dec 7, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Take my boy Frijoles, just recently I asked him about his DREAMS the fellow did not answer. He was too shy it seems.
I dont post on my sexuality 24/7 here.

Obviously the reason you do so is that you are experiencing a strong conflict with being both a fundamentalist Christian and being a gay man. It must be tough to carry all of that around in your head.

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