Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44733
Dec 3, 2012
 
I stand corrected

"....Those who immigrate to Israel under the Law of Return are immediately entitled to citizenship. However, differences of opinion have arisen as to whether a person who claims citizenship under the Law of Return should be automatically registered as "Jewish" for census purposes.

According to the halakhic definition, a person is Jewish if his or her mother is Jewish, or if he or she converts to Judaism. Charedi citizens of Israel generally do not recognize conversions performed by Reform or Conservative Judaism. However, the Law provides that any Jew regardless of affiliation may migrate to Israel and claim citizenship.

Originally, the Law of Return was restricted to Jews only. A 1970 amendment, however, stated that, "The rights of a Jew under this Law and the rights of an oleh under the Nationality Law... are also vested in a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew".*

http://ask.metafilter.com/138371/How-can-I-be...
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44734
Dec 3, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return#...
Supporters of a Palestinian right of return argue that refugees, displaced persons, and all their descendants have a right to return and a right to property they left or were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories (formerly part of the British Mandate of Palestine) as result of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War and the 1967 Six-Day war.[23]
As a rebuttal to Resolution 194 being used in support, opponents note that General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding and usually have no force as international law.[24]
Although the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights claim that the right of return to one's own country is a human right, numerous scholars have interpreted this to mean citizens or nationals of the country, as well as applying only to the individuals who were personally displaced, not to their descendants. Such an interpretation would also of course mean Jews and their descendants displaced from previously Arab countries would have no right of return.
-------
I dont get the last paragraph. I think it is error and should read "Such an interpretation would also of course mean Jewish descendants displaced from previously Arab countries would have no right of return." ??
i.e. Jews were citizens/nationals of their Arab countries - their descendents were not.
One of the sticking point of the Palestinian claim is the descendents issue. The Palestinians are the ONLY refugees granted status by the UN for their descendents. Which is why there are still UN refugee camps for Palestinians. Every other historical group has moved on with their life, unfairly or fairly....
It does look like a mistake. Would have to go to the source material.

I've corrected mistakes I've found on Wiki. They'll let your correction stand if you make a note of your rationale in the edit commentary.

Sometimes it's on obvious error, other times you need a source - but the source they're already using may to do the trick.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44735
Dec 3, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its more complicated I think these days. Your spouse has to be recognized as a Jew by the Israeli rabbinate I think. The Israeli rabbinate is nuts.(Rightwing and corrupt).
No, I understand.

They won't just take our word for it.

Try moving to Canada too.

They have standards.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44736
Dec 3, 2012
 
Is this a wise move?

__________

By NBC News staff and wire services

TEL AVIV -- Israel faced sharp criticism Monday from several European governments over its decision to expand settlement building in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem following U.N. de facto recognition of Palestinian statehood.

In London, the British government summoned the Israeli ambassador to express disapproval of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's decision.

"We deplore the recent Israeli government decision to build 3,000 new housing units and unfreeze development in the E1 block (of East Jerusalem). This threatens the viability of the two-state solution," Britain's Foreign and Commonwealth Office said in a statement.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03...
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44738
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
Is this a wise move?
__________
By NBC News staff and wire services
TEL AVIV -- Israel faced sharp criticism Monday from several European governments over its decision to expand settlement building in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem following U.N. de facto recognition of Palestinian statehood.
In London, the British government summoned the Israeli ambassador to express disapproval of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's decision.
"We deplore the recent Israeli government decision to build 3,000 new housing units and unfreeze development in the E1 block (of East Jerusalem). This threatens the viability of the two-state solution," Britain's Foreign and Commonwealth Office said in a statement.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/03...
Consider it like the opening of a bargaining position.

I dont agree with it but I can certainly understand why they did it.

After an announcement like that is made, there are still a few months needed to do the planning - no different than here or anywhere else. That will buy the time for negotiation.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44739
Dec 3, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Consider it like the opening of a bargaining position.
I dont agree with it but I can certainly understand why they did it.
After an announcement like that is made, there are still a few months needed to do the planning - no different than here or anywhere else. That will buy the time for negotiation.
I dig.

Like Obama playing hardball on the budget. He tried Mr. Nice guy last time and we know where it got him.

I wonder if Huggybear eloped with his donkey??
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44740
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I dig.
Like Obama playing hardball on the budget. He tried Mr. Nice guy last time and we know where it got him.
I wonder if Huggybear eloped with his donkey??
The only problem, of course, is that I doubt this will bring the Palestinians into negotiation. It is clear that they are trying to use worldwide sympathy to pressure Israel into declaring the state, instead of negotiating bilaterally.

Huggy has been quiet. I hope he uses protection.

HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44741
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I dig.
Like Obama playing hardball on the budget. He tried Mr. Nice guy last time and we know where it got him.
I wonder if Huggybear eloped with his donkey??
Former---I wonder if Huggybear eloped with his donkey??

HughBe--- My donkey is always attached to me, if you know what I mean. On the other hand, you have to mount your ass, if you know what I mean.

wink wink
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44742
Dec 3, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The only problem, of course, is that I doubt this will bring the Palestinians into negotiation. It is clear that they are trying to use worldwide sympathy to pressure Israel into declaring the state, instead of negotiating bilaterally.
Huggy has been quiet. I hope he uses protection.
Frijoles---Huggy has been quiet. I hope he uses protection.

HughBe-- Tell me, how can I protect myself from myself? Unlike you, my donkey is attached to me.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44743
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that because I cannot identify my maker that YOUR explanation of all this is the correct one?
That makes no sense whatsoever.
What evidence (not even proof)do you have that the "god" you worship is the correct one? Or even that he exists or ever did?
You have nothing. Just some old words that could have been inspired by anyone.
At least your donkey friend is real.
Former---Are you saying that because I cannot identify my maker that YOUR explanation of all this is the correct one?

HughBe--- No, I am not saying that. These are the things that I am saying. You cannot IDENTIFY your Maker because you are blind. My explanation is correct because I can SEE the evidence of YOUR Maker.

Former--That makes no sense whatsoever.

HughBe--- My answer above has corrected this state of yours.

Former---What evidence (not even proof)do you have that the "god" you worship is the correct one? Or even that he exists or ever did?

HughBe-- I have the fulfilment of prophecies.

Former---At least your donkey friend is real.

HughBe--- I accept your comment IF you are speaking about yourself or Frijoles. However if it is YOUR other donkey that you have been talking about then I thank you for the confirmation that you have no idea of what is reality and what is make-believe.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44744
Dec 3, 2012
 
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, it was my analogy. It was your faulty analogy. You are the one who analogized it with citizenship. I didn't.
Eric---Hey, it was my analogy

HughBe--- accepted
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44745
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish your fledgling country all the best.
Jamaica is 50 years old.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44746
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Embrace your love of livestock.
It's probably ok where you live.
Former---Embrace your love of livestock.

HughBe--- you speak as if you have just discoverd this truth. YOU should know that I love you. I love ALL dumb animals.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

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#44747
Dec 3, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---Huggy has been quiet. I hope he uses protection.
HughBe-- Tell me, how can I protect myself from myself? Unlike you, my donkey is attached to me.
I rate that as a funny.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44748
Dec 3, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
The only problem, of course, is that I doubt this will bring the Palestinians into negotiation. It is clear that they are trying to use worldwide sympathy to pressure Israel into declaring the state, instead of negotiating bilaterally.
Huggy has been quiet. I hope he uses protection.
He's baaack.

Nations only seem to be interested in international consensus when it suits them.

Robert McNamara in the "Fog of War" documentary said when other nations with similar values do not support you, you might want to re-examine your policy.

He said this of course in connection with Vietnam and how no other ally supported or involvement.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44749
Dec 3, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
It was you who called me "big boy."
A term of endearment among gay Jamaicans?
"big boy" = physically mature but mentally immature.

Unless I took leave of my senses I could never call you "big boy" given that I consider PENCILS,the group that your tool falls into,as small.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44750
Dec 3, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
My explanation is correct because I can SEE the evidence of YOUR Maker.
Is this evidence only in your head or is it something you are willing and/or able to share?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe-- I have the fulfilment of prophecies.
Such as....?

Are you a warlock?

Do you sacrifice chickens (or perhaps donkeys)?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44751
Dec 3, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
You know very well that WE are also the aggrieved party, so we have every right to look at the terms of the covenant and verify if the parties have met their parts of the covenant.
If the issue did not involve us, then we would have cared least about the covenant and its terms.
And you know very well what issue we are talking about and which is the land under contention.
MUQ---You know very well that WE are also the aggrieved party, so we have every right to look at the terms of the covenant and verify if the parties have met their parts of the covenant

HughBe--- I know no such thing. This is what I know, your group is NOT a party to the land covenant. So a review of the covenant must be done by you and yours for academic purposes ONLY.

MUQ---If the issue did not involve us, then we would have cared least about the covenant and its terms.

HughBe--- The issue of the covenant DOES NOT involve your group.

MUQ---And you know very well what issue we are talking about and which is the land under contention.

HughBe--- I know what you have in mind. I also know that like one of the parties to the covenant the issues are being mixed up. The religious ones on the other side don't have a full grasp of the covenants and issues are mixed up very much like what your side is doing.
former res

Broomall, PA

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#44752
Dec 3, 2012
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Jamaica is 50 years old.
Congratulations.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#44753
Dec 3, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I rate that as a funny.
As I have said before, the association is making you sharper.:D

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