Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44303 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Your question is malformed. It presupposes the existence of a god. Your question should read: "Did the Israelites record a covenant which they claim came from a god?"
Thank you for you wisdom and input. Let me work with your properly formed question and so YOU tell me about the covenant in brief.
Voluntarist

United States

#44304 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW - you never answered my question:
<quoted text>
Neither, your believe in the so called constitution is equivalent to those that believe in religion.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44305 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
They [converts] are SPIRITUAL Jews but are certainly NOT PHYSICAL/ biological Jews.
By George I think you have it.

Now just think of the flipside and your thinking will be complete.

A Jew can be BOTH a religious/spiritual Jew AND a bio-Jew.

OR he could be just one or the other.

What is your next area of confustion?
Voluntarist

United States

#44307 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Again with the strawman? I have no issue with a nativity scene. I have an issue if it is the only thing allowed.
The town green is managed by local government which must comply with the constitution. It MUST show impartiality with regards to religious expressions.
If they allow equal access, then there is no issue. If they ban all displays, then there is no issue. The issue only arises when they show preference, in which case they are violating the establishment cause.
What part of this don't you understand? I'm not sure I can make it any clearer for you. Your christian privilege mentality is shining through and preventing you from thinking clearly and objectively.
And now you've introduced another argument. That because this isn't a big deal (at least in your mind), we should allow the local governments to continue violating the establishment cause. My response to that feeble argument is that if it's not such a big deal, why did the country's fore-fathers feel it important enough to make it the very first amendment in the constitution?
Your drive isn't about protecting individual rights it is about your hatred of religion, you are a religaphobe.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44308 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---Yesterday I posted information indicating the origin of Judaism and the dates, BCE.
HughBe--- yesterday and today I shall tell you the source of true JUDAISM, it is God. He called it His WAY and His laws etc.
Are you really saying that He was LYING or that He stole the ideas from others and then claimed them as His own?
Take your head out of that hole.
I'm not calling anyone a liar as I haven't heard anyone actully say anything of substance.

All I'm hearing is hearsay evidence so far.

Feel free to share any actual information/facts/documentatio n/sources that you should come across.

Check the Mythology section of your local library.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44312 Nov 29, 2012
Huggy

"A Jew can be BOTH a religious/spiritual Jew AND a bio-Jew."

BTW, you have agreed to this.

And this is the meaning of "ethnoreigious" which you claim to not understand.

Being Irish is not this, nor is being Jamaican.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#44313 Nov 29, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither, your believe in the so called constitution is equivalent to those that believe in religion.
So,you don't agree that the government should be impartial with regards to showing religious preference? Very interesting. What other parts of the Constitution do you disagree with? We'll have to try and remember this the next time YOU invoke the constitution to make a point, something you've done quite often in the past.

Regarding your second point, I don't see how comparing the Constitution with religion makes any sense. The Constitution is merely a document that lays the foundational government and legal framework for this nation. It's by no means perfect, but the beauty of it is that it can be changed via amendments. If you don't like the constitution and the guidelines is sets, why do you live here? You have the option to leave.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44315 Nov 29, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Your drive isn't about protecting individual rights it is about your hatred of religion, you are a religaphobe.
so what you're saying is: You're doing the right thing but for the wrong reason.

Is defending the Constitution EVER wrong?

That's like Biden who says he is personally Catholic and anti-choice but would not impose that on others.

I think he is doing the right thing (though I personally am prochoice anyway)

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#44316 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for you wisdom and input. Let me work with your properly formed question and so YOU tell me about the covenant in brief.
Which covenant are we talking about? Wiki lists several:

1 Noahic covenant
2 Abrahamic covenant
3 Mosaic covenant
4 Priestly covenant
5 Davidic covenant
6 New Covenant in Judaism
7 New Covenant in Christianity
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44317 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Take your head out of that hole.
What if I enjoy the view from up there?!

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#44318 Nov 29, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Your drive isn't about protecting individual rights it is about your hatred of religion, you are a religaphobe.
A feeble response from a feeble mind in an effort to side step my points regarding the constitutionality of the situation.

I don't hate religion any more than I hate mythology, fantasy fiction, or any other made up stories. In fact, I find them quite entertaining.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44319 Nov 29, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
By George I think you have it.
Now just think of the flipside and your thinking will be complete.
A Jew can be BOTH a religious/spiritual Jew AND a bio-Jew.
OR he could be just one or the other.
What is your next area of confustion?
Let me lighten your darkness. The issue here is that you are failing to grasp that a BIOLOGICAL Jew will ALWAYS be a Jew regardless of whether or not he worships graven image as the 10 tribes PERPETUALLY did. What they worship does not take away from them being JEWS. Are your masters greater than God in your mind? Why then do you esteem their LIES above the plain words of God?

Listen to God. Ask for help in understanding the words, please.

Step 1---"The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the JEWS which dwell in the land of Egypt"

Did you see the word JEWS?

Steo 2---"ye provoke me unto wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense unto OTHER gods in the land of Egypt"

Do see the worship of IDOLS? Yet God called them JEWS.

Step 3--They are not humbled even unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers

Do you see that they were not following "Judaism"? If not get your head checked.

Step 4--Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense UNTO other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,

16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, WE will NOT hearken unto thee.

Do you understand the words WE WILL NOT HEARKEN? Yet God called them JEWS.

Stop wasting my time.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#44320 Nov 29, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
so what you're saying is: You're doing the right thing but for the wrong reason.
Is defending the Constitution EVER wrong?
That's like Biden who says he is personally Catholic and anti-choice but would not impose that on others.
I think he is doing the right thing (though I personally am prochoice anyway)
I'm not sure he even knows what he's saying. He's just trying to squirm out of the debate. In the past, he has been quick to bring up the Constitution or other points of law such as Corpus Delecti (his personal favorite). Now he's trying to downplay the Constitution because it doesn't support his viewpoint on this one topic.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44321 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Which covenant are we talking about? Wiki lists several:
1 Noahic covenant
2 Abrahamic covenant
3 Mosaic covenant
4 Priestly covenant
5 Davidic covenant
6 New Covenant in Judaism
7 New Covenant in Christianity
NOW--Culti---Which covenant are we talking about? Wiki lists several:

BEFORE--Culti----Did the Israelites record a covenant which they claim came from a god?"

HughBe---Thank you for you wisdom and input. Let me work with your properly formed question and so YOU tell me about the covenant in brief.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44322 Nov 29, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What if I enjoy the view from up there?!
SOMETHING would be WRONG.
Voluntarist

United States

#44323 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
So,you don't agree that the government should be impartial with regards to showing religious preference? Very interesting. What other parts of the Constitution do you disagree with? We'll have to try and remember this the next time YOU invoke the constitution to make a point, something you've done quite often in the past.
Regarding your second point, I don't see how comparing the Constitution with religion makes any sense. The Constitution is merely a document that lays the foundational government and legal framework for this nation. It's by no means perfect, but the beauty of it is that it can be changed via amendments. If you don't like the constitution and the guidelines is sets, why do you live here? You have the option to leave.
It is your belief in a piece of paper that is comparable to belief in the Bible.

Your belief in government is equally comparable, as your belief in states and citizens, just words on paper.
Voluntarist

United States

#44324 Nov 29, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
A feeble response from a feeble mind in an effort to side step my points regarding the constitutionality of the situation.
I don't hate religion any more than I hate mythology, fantasy fiction, or any other made up stories. In fact, I find them quite entertaining.
Then you find government entertaining?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#44325 Nov 29, 2012
former res wrote:
Huggy
"A Jew can be BOTH a religious/spiritual Jew AND a bio-Jew."
BTW, you have agreed to this.
And this is the meaning of "ethnoreigious" which you claim to not understand.
Being Irish is not this, nor is being Jamaican.
Former---Huggy

"A Jew can be BOTH a religious/spiritual(JUDAISM) Jew AND a bio-Jew(RACE)."

And this is the meaning of "ethnoreigious" which you claim to not understand.

HughBe--- Learn this YOU are comparing RACE/Jew and RELIGION/Judaism with Nationality i.e.Irish.

Jews can be Irish? did you know this?

So you could have an Irish man who is Jew/RACE who is RELIGIOUS/ Judaism

In like manner you could have an Irish man who is Caucasian/RACE who is Christian/ RELIGION.

Don't just respond, THINK.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#44326 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue here is that you are failing to grasp that a BIOLOGICAL Jew will ALWAYS be a Jew regardless of whether or not he worships graven image as the 10 tribes PERPETUALLY did. What they worship does not take away from them being JEWS.
I have never argued this point. Seems to be the day for strawman arguments here on the forum.

Why do you imply that I have argued this point?

The ethno- piece of ethnorelgious will always be in one's DNA.

We are discussing only the religious/spiritual part.

You yourself said someone could be spiritually Jewish without being biologically Jewish.

Obviously the reverse can also be true.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Are your masters greater than God in your mind? Why then do you esteem their LIES above the plain words of God?
Your argument presupposes the existence of God: a proposition I do not accept.

We are only discussing the beliefs of a people as far as I am concerned.

I have no masters. Do you?

I support my words with documentation and sources. You do not.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Step 1---"The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the JEWS which dwell in the land of Egypt"
Did you see the word JEWS?
What is your source material?

I give you sources and links with dates.

You give me only passages an poetry fee of sourcing information.

My dates went back to the ancient people.

I see no dates in anything you've provided. No facts.

I think it is you who is wasting my time.

Take some pride in your arugment and strive to do better.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#44327 Nov 29, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
NOW--Culti---Which covenant are we talking about? Wiki lists several:
BEFORE--Culti----Did the Israelites record a covenant which they claim came from a god?"
HughBe---Thank you for you wisdom and input. Let me work with your properly formed question and so YOU tell me about the covenant in brief.
Pick a number 1 - 7.

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