Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72024 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43240 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So you wont answer the question about whether money is property or not.
You are claiming that men and women forcing people to pay for services is OK as long as they claim that they are this artificial entity called government.
It may be artifical to you but to those of us on the other side of the butterfly net (the ones holding the handle), it is VERY VERY real.
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
But if I shoveled your driveway and held a gun to your head to pay me that would be a.crime?
Not sure what relevancy that has. We already established that it is homewoners responsibility to shovel sidewalk, not govt.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43241 Nov 12, 2012
Second time - I DID answer your question abount money. You just didnt approve of my answer.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#43242 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point but a bit tangential. In many communities it IS the responsibility of the private to keep the walkways clear. Or else be subject to Volunteerist's "violence" (i.e. a ticket).
What matters is those communal services. Which require central admin. Bridges, street maintence etc etc
Yes, we've agreed (at least the majority) in this community that sidewalks need to be passable within 24 hours of a snowfall. We're subject to citation if we don't. Same with my mom in G'ch. Growing up we didn't even have a sidewalk, then the town put it in and said, guess what, "You have to shovel it." And so it goes.

I think what ATF is really fighting is the 'Tyranny of the majority.'

He does believe collectivism is a dirty word.

I'm trying to find out what system he would prefer.
Voluntarist

United States

#43243 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it does....
File this one again in the "We won, you lost" bin.
What you are saying is that you are on a team with a bunch of people who pay for services to a violent structure known as government and that you pay protection money to this racket and receive a uneven portion of services for your money.
And you are angry that there are people that are more financially successful than you so you want the racket to force by way of threat of violence those people to give up even more of their property for what you perceive as "the better good". Correct?
And how is that any different than a commune?
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43244 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we've agreed (at least the majority) in this community that sidewalks need to be passable within 24 hours of a snowfall. We're subject to citation if we don't. Same with my mom in G'ch. Growing up we didn't even have a sidewalk, then the town put it in and said, guess what, "You have to shovel it." And so it goes.
I think what ATF is really fighting is the 'Tyranny of the majority.'
He does believe collectivism is a dirty word.
I'm trying to find out what system he would prefer.
Yes, it appears he labels that "T o M" as government. Its a convenient bogeyman. The irony is that here in CT we are home rule - cant really get anymore decentralized than that. I would also note that NH voted for Obama.
Voluntarist

United States

#43245 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
Second time - I DID answer your question abount money. You just didnt approve of my answer.
Its a simple yes or no answer, if you answered yes or no please provide the post #.
Voluntarist

United States

#43246 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
GOvt and private are equally likely to be flawed in human behavior , but there are things that govt is uniquely qualified to do, due to its inherent centralization.
They can be centralized all they want, why can they rely on voluntary interactions with them?
Voluntarist

United States

#43247 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
It may be artifical to you but to those of us on the other side of the butterfly net (the ones holding the handle), it is VERY VERY real.
<quoted text>
Not sure what relevancy that has. We already established that it is homewoners responsibility to shovel sidewalk, not govt.
Look at the question again, if I shoveled your DRIVEWAY.
By the way it used to be the responsibility of the land owner to take care of the street out front as well.
Voluntarist

United States

#43248 Nov 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it appears he labels that "T o M" as government. Its a convenient bogeyman. The irony is that here in CT we are home rule - cant really get anymore decentralized than that. I would also note that NH voted for Obama.
How did a fictional entity vote?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#43249 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>...You are claiming that men and women forcing people to pay for services is OK as long as they claim that they are this artificial entity called government...
Yes and only 51% of use voted for Obama.

Do you accept that?

What percent of a community voting for s shared service would satisfy you?
Voluntarist

United States

#43250 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we've agreed (at least the majority) in this community that sidewalks need to be passable within 24 hours of a snowfall. We're subject to citation if we don't. Same with my mom in G'ch. Growing up we didn't even have a sidewalk, then the town put it in and said, guess what, "You have to shovel it." And so it goes.
I think what ATF is really fighting is the 'Tyranny of the majority.'
He does believe collectivism is a dirty word.
I'm trying to find out what system he would prefer.
You can be a collectivist all you want but why do you have to resort to violence for others to join your team?
Voluntarist

United States

#43251 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we've agreed (at least the majority) in this community that sidewalks need to be passable within 24 hours of a snowfall. We're subject to citation if we don't. Same with my mom in G'ch. Growing up we didn't even have a sidewalk, then the town put it in and said, guess what, "You have to shovel it." And so it goes.
I think what ATF is really fighting is the 'Tyranny of the majority.'
He does believe collectivism is a dirty word.
I'm trying to find out what system he would prefer.
How did the majority agree? did you have a majority vote?
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#43252 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
What you are saying is that you are on a team with a bunch of people who pay for services to a violent structure known as government and that you pay protection money to this racket and receive a uneven portion of services for your money.
And you are angry that there are people that are more financially successful than you so you want the racket to force by way of threat of violence those people to give up even more of their property for what you perceive as "the better good". Correct?
And how is that any different than a commune?
Sounds as though you don't approve of a progressive tax system.

You would prefer a flat tax?

Do you agree that relying on a sales tax or VAT would be REgressive? Is this fair?
Voluntarist

United States

#43253 Nov 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes and only 51% of use voted for Obama.
Do you accept that?
What percent of a community voting for s shared service would satisfy you?
I would rather pay for services that I choose to utilize.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43254 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
They can be centralized all they want, why can they rely on voluntary interactions with them?
Because it doesnt work that way.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43255 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I would rather pay for services that I choose to utilize.
Doesnt work that way either.

You pay for school. In your case you probably would of benefited had you actually attended.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43256 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
How did a fictional entity vote?
Focus.

Answer FRs question. What form of government do you prefer?
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43257 Nov 12, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Its a simple yes or no answer, if you answered yes or no please provide the post #.
Dont be daft. I answered 3 times already on this.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#43258 Nov 12, 2012
REFRESHER:

1) Jews = Demon-worshipping, brainless, plagiaristic, uncultured, psychologically abnormal, criminal-minded and genetically distorted vermin who're heading for total destruction by 2016 or earlier.

2) JUDAISM = Demon-Worship.

3) YHVH/HASHEM = A Major Demon (a Baal/a Molech) of the Vital Plane of Cosmic Consciousness.

4) Abraham, Moses, Daniel and the other Hebrew patriarchs = Mass murdering, fanatical and animal and human sacrificing possessed sorcerers.
Frijoles

Farmington, CT

#43259 Nov 12, 2012
Joel Who?

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