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Frijoles

Meriden, CT

#41983 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
But how about this?
"Statement by Rabbis Schachter, Willig, Rosensweig, and Twersky
In 2010, TorahWeb.org published a brief position statement entitled "Torah View on Homosexuality".[10] It was co-authored by Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Mordechai Willig, Rav Michael Rosensweig, and Rav Mayer Twersky. These four are all roshei yeshiva (i.e., rabbinic leaders) at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary at Yeshiva University, the largest and most influential Modern Orthodox rabbinic program in America. In part, the statement reads:
... Prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_sexu...
Absolutely.

There is no question that homosexual relations are prohibitted.

The question is whether there is an additional stigma attached to breaking the commandment.(Like the argument goes, eating shrimp is prohibited too, therefore gay relations are on par with breaking kosher - a sin but not a SIN). In most strict interpretations of the Torah there is no stigma. The stigma notion comes from Christianity with its age old war against the body and anything carnal in feeling. With stigma comes emotion, including hatred. Not that there arent extremists of course within Judaism.
Frijoles

Meriden, CT

#41984 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
:
... Prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_sexu...
By the way, I dont know what there idea of yichud is, but my understanding of yichud (which means together in unity)is when the bride and bridegroom sequester themselves to a room right after the marriage ceremony and get frisky -(in some traditions thats when they produced the bloody sheet to demonstrate virginity/consumation). Then after they emerge, the party starts.
former res

Broomall, PA

#41985 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely.
There is no question that homosexual relations are prohibitted.
The question is whether there is an additional stigma attached to breaking the commandment.(Like the argument goes, eating shrimp is prohibited too, therefore gay relations are on par with breaking kosher - a sin but not a SIN). In most strict interpretations of the Torah there is no stigma. The stigma notion comes from Christianity with its age old war against the body and anything carnal in feeling. With stigma comes emotion, including hatred. Not that there arent extremists of course within Judaism.
And this was my original point.

Not all Christians are anti-gay either.

But officially neither religion embraces the idea. Same with Muslims.

I don't think most Muslims think women shouldn't be educated either.
former res

Broomall, PA

#41986 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, I dont know what there idea of yichud is, but my understanding of yichud (which means together in unity)is when the bride and bridegroom sequester themselves to a room right after the marriage ceremony and get frisky -(in some traditions thats when they produced the bloody sheet to demonstrate virginity/consumation). Then after they emerge, the party starts.
ewwww....gross!!

:))
Frijoles

Meriden, CT

#41987 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
And this was my original point.
Not all Christians are anti-gay either.
But officially neither religion embraces the idea. Same with Muslims.
I don't think most Muslims think women shouldn't be educated either.
From what I have gleaned from MUQ, I dont think he is against educating women either.

As long as that doesnt interfer with homemaking or babymaking, and as long as they arent allowed to work the same careers men are, and as long as they arent allowed to drive, or appear in public unveiled, or talk to anyone other than their husband, or talk back to their husband, or question their religion, etc etc.

Once you get through those minor obstructions,....
Frijoles

Meriden, CT

#41988 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
ewwww....gross!!
:))
We did a version of yichud at my wedding. We ate sushi and chilled out for a few minutes. No sheet, no blood, no touching...
Frijoles

Meriden, CT

#41989 Oct 16, 2012
Romney Is Attacked by His Father’s Longtime Aide

A longtime aide to George W. Romney issued a harshly worded critique of Mitt Romney, accusing him of shifting political positions in “erratic and startling ways” and failing to live up to the distinguished record of his father, the former governor of Michigan.

Walter De Vries, who worked for the senior Mr. Romney throughout the 1960s, wrote that Mitt Romney’s bid for the White House was “a far cry from the kind of campaign and conduct, as a public servant, I saw during the seven years I worked in George Romney’s campaigns and served him as governor.”

“While it seems that Mitt would say and do anything to close a deal – or an election,” he wrote,“George Romney’s strength as a politician and public officeholder was his ability and determination to develop and hold consistent policy positions over his life.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/15...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#41990 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
Not all Christians are anti-gay either.
Most are. And what's important to remember is that the religion they believe in (without evidence) IS anti-gay, thus providing the adherents with an excuse to hate or discriminate.
former res wrote:
But officially neither religion embraces the idea.
I would say the Abrahamic religions (especially Christianity and Islam)goes well beyond not embracing it. They outright abhor it.
former res wrote:
I don't think most Muslims think women shouldn't be educated either.
You are referring to modernized and fully acclimated moderate Muslims living in the Western world. I would hazard to guess that these are not representative of the Muslim viewpoint worldwide, particularly in the more theocratic countries.

At some point, even the moderates have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of their religion telling them one thing, and them pragmatically thinking differently about it. Either their religion is wrong, or they are.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#41992 Oct 16, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Right. So better to let the men make all the decisions for the women. That's much more fair.
In our society, women have an equal voice in the political process and in making their own decisions. No rhetoric of yours will change that fact.
Not men make laws for women, it is the Creator of both men and women who decides about their mutual rights.

He says "women have right on men, same as men have over them, but men have one level of superiority."

and this is not arbitrary because He says "....Because God has given them more power and they spend their money on them (i.e. women)..."

Any one can see in the world, who spends money on whom. It is mostly men who spend their money on women. It is still a very small percentage of women who spend their money on men.

So the basic mistake of you people is to create "perfect equality" where there is none.

And if you do any thing against nature, you will have to suffer the consequences.

To have men and women working in different areas is not their degradation.... it is part of the same "complimentary role" by which men and women make a unit, which is called family.

You people want to break this unit and have men and women as equal and always competing against each other, with the result that family unit is broken.

already family structure is crumbling in western society and with time it would become further weakened.

The people who have eyes can see it....those who are blind or do not look at wall, they continue to follow what media tells them blindly.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#41993 Oct 16, 2012

Mohammad , the Ideal Prophet By SYED SULAIMAN NADWI (Abridged) Part- 24

Lecture 4. The Perfectness of the Holy Prophet’s Life

Great men within their “inner circle”

My dear friends! Even the greatest of heroes is an ordinary person inside his house. According to Voltaire’s well-known saying “No man is a hero to his valet.”

In Bosworth Smith’s opinion this does not apply, at least, to the Prophet of Islam
(Peace be upon him). Gibbon says that no Prophet has put his followers to a greater test than Muhammad (Peace be upon him) because he first presented himself to those as a Prophet who knew him intimately well as an ordinary human being.

He claimed to be a Prophet first to his wife, his personal servant, his cousin and his closest friend and none of them showed any hesitation at all in accepting the truth of his claim. No one knows the inherent weaknesses of a person better than his own wife.

But is it not a fact that the first person to believe and declare her faith in the Prophet was his wife? She had shared fifteen years of married life with him before his Prophethood. She knew intimately all sides of his personality. When he claimed to be a prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him), she was the first to accept the veracity of that claim.

Even the most pious and the purest of persons cannot allow his wife to tell others about his private life. The holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) had nine wives and
every one of them had his permission to convey to others in public whatever they
observed about him in private. They were all allowed to say in daylight what they
had seen in him in the darkness of the night because he had complete confidence in the purity of his heart and the sincerity of his actions. He did nothing that had to be hidden from the public eye. Can any one match the purity of this conduct and such moral courage?

Available Details of his life:

In my own biography of the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) I have arranged
the personal details of his life under the following subtitles:

his appearance;

the Seal of Prophethood;

his hair;

his manner of walking,

speaking and smiling;

his clothes,

his ring,

helmet and armour;

his food and manner of eating;

his liking for decent clothes;

his favorite colours;

his dislike of certain colours;

his use of perfume;

his good taste;

his love of riding.

Under his daily routine the subtitles include everything he usually did from
morning to sunset:

his manner of sleeping;

his long hours of worship during the night;

his manner of praying;

his usual sermons;

his routine during travelling and during a holy war;

his visits to the sick and the suffering to offer his sympathy and
condolences;

his visiting with others and his general routine.

Under the title of his assembly with his companions these subtitles are included:

his court;

his public meetings for the purpose of preaching Allah’s Message;

the etiquette observed in those meetings;

the usual time of those meetings;

separate meetings for women;

his way of preaching;

the relaxed atmosphere of those meetings;

the beneficial effect of his company;

his manner of speech;

the nature and wholesome influence of his talks.

The detailed account of his manner of worship is given under the sub-headings:

his supplication and performance of prayers;

fasting;

alms-giving;

his pilgrimage to Makkah (the Hajj);

his remembrance of Allah at all times;

his remembrance of Allah during fighting;

his fear of Allah;

his grief and weeping;

his love of Allah

his faith in Allah;

his fortitude and his thanks-giving
Frijoles

North Haven, CT

#41994 Oct 17, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Not men make laws for women, it is the Creator of both men and women who decides about their mutual rights.
He says "women have right on men, same as men have over them, but men have one level of superiority."
and this is not arbitrary because He says "....Because God has given them more power and they spend their money on them (i.e. women)..."
Any one can see in the world, who spends money on whom. It is mostly men who spend their money on women. It is still a very small percentage of women who spend their money on men.
So the basic mistake of you people is to create "perfect equality" where there is none.
And if you do any thing against nature, you will have to suffer the consequences.
To have men and women working in different areas is not their degradation.... it is part of the same "complimentary role" by which men and women make a unit, which is called family.
You people want to break this unit and have men and women as equal and always competing against each other, with the result that family unit is broken.
already family structure is crumbling in western society and with time it would become further weakened.
The people who have eyes can see it....those who are blind or do not look at wall, they continue to follow what media tells them blindly.
I know you must be JOKING to even suggest that your basis for your belief in an alleged superiority of men over woman is that MEN SPEND MORE MONEY ON WOMEN than vice versa.

Would you like another try?
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#41995 Oct 17, 2012
MUQ wrote:
Mohammad , the Ideal Prophet By SYED SULAIMAN NADWI (Abridged) Part- 24
Lecture 4. The Perfectness of the Holy Prophet’s Life
Great men within their “inner circle”
My dear friends! Even the greatest of heroes is an ordinary person inside his house. According to Voltaire’s well-known saying “No man is a hero to his valet.”
In Bosworth Smith’s opinion this does not apply, at least, to the Prophet of Islam
(Peace be upon him). Gibbon says that no Prophet has put his followers to a greater test than Muhammad (Peace be upon him) because he first presented himself to those as a Prophet who knew him intimately well as an ordinary human being.
He claimed to be a Prophet first to his wife, his personal servant, his cousin and his closest friend and none of them showed any hesitation at all in accepting the truth of his claim. No one knows the inherent weaknesses of a person better than his own wife.
But is it not a fact that the first person to believe and declare her faith in the Prophet was his wife? She had shared fifteen years of married life with him before his Prophethood. She knew intimately all sides of his personality. When he claimed to be a prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him), she was the first to accept the veracity of that claim.
Even the most pious and the purest of persons cannot allow his wife to tell others about his private life. The holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) had nine wives and
every one of them had his permission to convey to others in public whatever they
observed about him in private. They were all allowed to say in daylight what they
had seen in him in the darkness of the night because he had complete confidence in the purity of his heart and the sincerity of his actions. He did nothing that had to be hidden from the public eye. Can any one match the purity of this conduct and such moral courage?
Available Details of his life:
In my own biography of the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) I have arranged
the personal details of his life under the following subtitles:
his appearance;
the Seal of Prophethood;
his hair;
his manner of walking,
speaking and smiling;
his clothes,
his ring,
helmet and armour;
his food and manner of eating;
his liking for decent clothes;
his favorite colours;
his dislike of certain colours;
his use of perfume;
his good taste;
his love of riding.
Under his daily routine the subtitles include everything he usually did from
morning to sunset:
his manner of sleeping;
his long hours of worship during the night;
his manner of praying;
his usual sermons;
his routine during travelling and during a holy war;
his visits to the sick and the suffering to offer his sympathy and
condolences;
his visiting with others and his general routine.
Under the title of his assembly with his companions these subtitles are included:
his court;
his public meetings for the purpose of preaching Allah’s Message;
the etiquette observed in those meetings;
the usual time of those meetings;
separate meetings for women;
his way of preaching;
the relaxed atmosphere of those meetings;
the beneficial effect of his company;
his manner of speech;
the nature and wholesome influence of his talks.
The detailed account of his manner of worship is given under the sub-headings:
his supplication and performance of prayers;
fasting;
alms-giving;
his pilgrimage to Makkah (the Hajj);
his remembrance of Allah at all times;
his remembrance of Allah during fighting;
his fear of Allah;
his grief and weeping;
his love of Allah
his faith in Allah;
his fortitude and his thanks-giving
rabbee: trying to make more than the less than ideal prophet, is a sin no matter what is your case against G-D.
Frijoles

North Haven, CT

#41996 Oct 17, 2012
Remarks by the President on the Deaths of U.S. Embassy Staff in Libya

"....No ACTS OF TERROR will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done..."

----------
Are certain Republicans that dumb that they think people separate the term "terrorism" from "acts of terror"?
Lev

South Africa

#41997 Oct 17, 2012
Christianity is a religion of choice and NOT of force. If it were not for Jesus "healing power" I, and some of my family would not be alive today to read these comments. Thank You Jesus.
Lev

South Africa

#41998 Oct 17, 2012
Congratulations Mitt Romney, you are a man of 'true worth.'God will be with you and your people when you become president. Mitt has the ability to get your country out of it's mess. South Africa is going 'deeper into a mess' under black rule. We need a ruler like Mitt to help us. The Black A.N.C. Government spent R4.67 billion on catering, entertainment for its black people in 2011, yet they continue to threaten white South African farmers that they will take their farm land without compensation; a hard working people who are producing food for S.A's population. South Africa "also" needs change. Prosperity does not follow everyone.
Frijoles

North Haven, CT

#41999 Oct 17, 2012
Lev wrote:
Congratulations Mitt Romney, you are a man of 'true worth.'God will be with you and your people when you become president. Mitt has the ability to get your country out of it's mess. South Africa is going 'deeper into a mess' under black rule. We need a ruler like Mitt to help us. The Black A.N.C. Government spent R4.67 billion on catering, entertainment for its black people in 2011, yet they continue to threaten white South African farmers that they will take their farm land without compensation; a hard working people who are producing food for S.A's population. South Africa "also" needs change. Prosperity does not follow everyone.
Then for crissake, take him, he's yours!!!

Have a GREAT day!
Frijoles

North Haven, CT

#42000 Oct 17, 2012
Lev wrote:
Christianity is a religion of choice and NOT of force. If it were not for Jesus "healing power" I, and some of my family would not be alive today to read these comments. Thank You Jesus.
Dont bother with trying to play the "persecuted" card.

You know, as well as I, that the chatter on this forum hasnt bothered to venture into its namesake topic for a long, long, long time.
former res

Broomall, PA

#42001 Oct 17, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
Romney Is Attacked by His Father’s Longtime Aide
A longtime aide to George W. Romney issued a harshly worded critique of Mitt Romney, accusing him of shifting political positions in “erratic and startling ways” and failing to live up to the distinguished record of his father, the former governor of Michigan.
Walter De Vries, who worked for the senior Mr. Romney throughout the 1960s, wrote that Mitt Romney’s bid for the White House was “a far cry from the kind of campaign and conduct, as a public servant, I saw during the seven years I worked in George Romney’s campaigns and served him as governor.”
“While it seems that Mitt would say and do anything to close a deal – or an election,” he wrote,“George Romney’s strength as a politician and public officeholder was his ability and determination to develop and hold consistent policy positions over his life.”
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/15...
If he lied about the little things, no surprise he's now lyng about the big things.

Fox News - 2007:

"I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life," he said this week in Keene, N.H., to a man sporting a National Rifle Association cap.


Yet the former Massachusetts governor's hunting experience is limited to two trips at the bookends of his 60 years: as a 15-year-old, when he hunted rabbits with his cousins on a ranch in Idaho, and last year, when he shot quail on a fenced game preserve in Georgia.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,264026,00...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#42002 Oct 17, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Not men make laws for women, it is the Creator of both men and women who decides about their mutual rights.
He says "women have right on men, same as men have over them, but men have one level of superiority."
and this is not arbitrary because He says "....Because God has given them more power and they spend their money on them (i.e. women)..."
Any one can see in the world, who spends money on whom. It is mostly men who spend their money on women. It is still a very small percentage of women who spend their money on men.
So the basic mistake of you people is to create "perfect equality" where there is none.
And if you do any thing against nature, you will have to suffer the consequences.
To have men and women working in different areas is not their degradation.... it is part of the same "complimentary role" by which men and women make a unit, which is called family.
You people want to break this unit and have men and women as equal and always competing against each other, with the result that family unit is broken.
already family structure is crumbling in western society and with time it would become further weakened.
The people who have eyes can see it....those who are blind or do not look at wall, they continue to follow what media tells them blindly.
1. Creator Granted Rights: Since you have no objective proof for a Creator nor his alleged will, your base assumption is unverifiable and nullifies the rest of your assertions.

2. Men Paying for Women: This is a circular argument. According to you, women aren't supposed to work outside of the home, therefore, there is no choice but for for men to pay for them. And by men paying for them, this is somehow proof that they should not work? You're not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you MUQ?

3. Degradation of Family Structure: You've made this assertion before, but when asked for objective data to back up this claim, you failed. Anecdotal tales are not objective evidence. Would you like to try again?
Frijoles

North Haven, CT

#42003 Oct 17, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
If he lied about the little things, no surprise he's now lyng about the big things.
Fox News - 2007:
"I purchased a gun when I was a young man. I've been a hunter pretty much all my life," he said this week in Keene, N.H., to a man sporting a National Rifle Association cap.
Yet the former Massachusetts governor's hunting experience is limited to two trips at the bookends of his 60 years: as a 15-year-old, when he hunted rabbits with his cousins on a ranch in Idaho, and last year, when he shot quail on a fenced game preserve in Georgia.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,264026,00...
Have you ever "hunted" quail or seen them in the wild? I am not sure that this should even be considered really hunting.

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