Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72037 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#41966 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
I dont think he will get the tissue reference corectly, being that anything other than missionary and donkey style is probably prohibited in his world.
Donkey Style...LOL!
Voluntarist

Indonesia

#41968 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats why I asked him the other day how many Mullahs were women, and how many Islamic judges were women.
Whats crazy is that I think he actually believes the smoke he is pushing.
Why would there be any woman judges, they need rational beings as judges.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#41969 Oct 16, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would there be any woman judges, they need rational beings as judges.
I don't think you're in a position to ascertain what is and isn't rational, butterfly man.
former res

Broomall, PA

#41970 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Your interpretations of your citations are not quite correct.
While it is true that most strands of orthodox Judaism do not "approve" of homosexuality - there have been a few commentaries that point out, correctly, that the violation of this commandment is really no different than violating other commandments such as eating shrimp. Its a matter of perspective, and traditionally most Orthodox understand it as so.
The word "toavot" does not really meaning abhorred - that is an English adaptation - it means forbidden to God.
The Sin of Sodom was not gay sex. That was a Christian add on. On other forums, we have posted where that idea came up. The Sin of Sodom in the Jewish tradition was inhospitality. The word "sodomize" was coined by Christians many centuries later.
So it's the extremes or fringes of many of these groups that are the most objectionable to most folks.

Whether it be Muslims, Jews, Christians...

I don't even know what religion MUQ is and don't feel like reading enough of his blather to find out, though I completely understand the entertainment element.

Still miss the Holy Cow!
former res

Broomall, PA

#41971 Oct 16, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would there be any woman judges, they need rational beings as judges.
You remind me of a former co-worker who complained that one of our female co-workers was on a "reverse cycle" - only in a good mood once every 28 days!

I admit to laughing and still smiling at that one.
Frijoles

United States

#41973 Oct 16, 2012
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would there be any woman judges, they need rational beings as judges.
I'd love to be your wife's attorney.
Frijoles

United States

#41974 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
So it's the extremes or fringes of many of these groups that are the most objectionable to most folks.
Whether it be Muslims, Jews, Christians...
I don't even know what religion MUQ is and don't feel like reading enough of his blather to find out, though I completely understand the entertainment element.
Still miss the Holy Cow!
Interesting enough, among many ultra orthodox, I have read that male homosexuality is looked the other way as long as the men are also married with children. Many gay men put up with that as long as they still can maintain their "social" life.

Its the dominant Christian culture that brings in the stigma aspect.

MUQ is muslim.

I wonder who the COW would vote for.
Frijoles

United States

#41975 Oct 16, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Donkey Style...LOL!
" " Knows Best.
Frijoles

United States

#41976 Oct 16, 2012
(That was self censorship, by the way.)
former res

Broomall, PA

#41978 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting enough, among many ultra orthodox, I have read that male homosexuality is looked the other way as long as the men are also married with children. Many gay men put up with that as long as they still can maintain their "social" life.
Its the dominant Christian culture that brings in the stigma aspect.
MUQ is muslim.
I wonder who the COW would vote for.
But how about this?

"Statement by Rabbis Schachter, Willig, Rosensweig, and Twersky

In 2010, TorahWeb.org published a brief position statement entitled "Torah View on Homosexuality".[10] It was co-authored by Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Mordechai Willig, Rav Michael Rosensweig, and Rav Mayer Twersky. These four are all roshei yeshiva (i.e., rabbinic leaders) at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary at Yeshiva University, the largest and most influential Modern Orthodox rabbinic program in America. In part, the statement reads:


... Prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals...."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_sexu...
Frijoles

United States

#41979 Oct 16, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe in censorship.
Here's a picture of Mohammad smiling
:-)
Is it really censorship if it is self?

I always knew the guy was bald.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#41980 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it really censorship if it is self?
I always knew the guy was bald.
Here he is looking surprised...

:-O
former res

Broomall, PA

#41981 Oct 16, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Here he is looking surprised...
:-O
You better have someone else start your car tomorrow morning.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#41982 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
You better have someone else start your car tomorrow morning.
Oh, now you made him sad...

:-(
Frijoles

United States

#41983 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
But how about this?
"Statement by Rabbis Schachter, Willig, Rosensweig, and Twersky
In 2010, TorahWeb.org published a brief position statement entitled "Torah View on Homosexuality".[10] It was co-authored by Rav Hershel Schachter, Rav Mordechai Willig, Rav Michael Rosensweig, and Rav Mayer Twersky. These four are all roshei yeshiva (i.e., rabbinic leaders) at the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary at Yeshiva University, the largest and most influential Modern Orthodox rabbinic program in America. In part, the statement reads:
... Prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_sexu...
Absolutely.

There is no question that homosexual relations are prohibitted.

The question is whether there is an additional stigma attached to breaking the commandment.(Like the argument goes, eating shrimp is prohibited too, therefore gay relations are on par with breaking kosher - a sin but not a SIN). In most strict interpretations of the Torah there is no stigma. The stigma notion comes from Christianity with its age old war against the body and anything carnal in feeling. With stigma comes emotion, including hatred. Not that there arent extremists of course within Judaism.
Frijoles

United States

#41984 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
:
... Prohibited homosexual activity includes any non-platonic physical contact; even yichud (seclusion) with someone of the same gender is forbidden for homosexually active individuals...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_sexu...
By the way, I dont know what there idea of yichud is, but my understanding of yichud (which means together in unity)is when the bride and bridegroom sequester themselves to a room right after the marriage ceremony and get frisky -(in some traditions thats when they produced the bloody sheet to demonstrate virginity/consumation). Then after they emerge, the party starts.
former res

Broomall, PA

#41985 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely.
There is no question that homosexual relations are prohibitted.
The question is whether there is an additional stigma attached to breaking the commandment.(Like the argument goes, eating shrimp is prohibited too, therefore gay relations are on par with breaking kosher - a sin but not a SIN). In most strict interpretations of the Torah there is no stigma. The stigma notion comes from Christianity with its age old war against the body and anything carnal in feeling. With stigma comes emotion, including hatred. Not that there arent extremists of course within Judaism.
And this was my original point.

Not all Christians are anti-gay either.

But officially neither religion embraces the idea. Same with Muslims.

I don't think most Muslims think women shouldn't be educated either.
former res

Broomall, PA

#41986 Oct 16, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, I dont know what there idea of yichud is, but my understanding of yichud (which means together in unity)is when the bride and bridegroom sequester themselves to a room right after the marriage ceremony and get frisky -(in some traditions thats when they produced the bloody sheet to demonstrate virginity/consumation). Then after they emerge, the party starts.
ewwww....gross!!

:))
Frijoles

United States

#41987 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
And this was my original point.
Not all Christians are anti-gay either.
But officially neither religion embraces the idea. Same with Muslims.
I don't think most Muslims think women shouldn't be educated either.
From what I have gleaned from MUQ, I dont think he is against educating women either.

As long as that doesnt interfer with homemaking or babymaking, and as long as they arent allowed to work the same careers men are, and as long as they arent allowed to drive, or appear in public unveiled, or talk to anyone other than their husband, or talk back to their husband, or question their religion, etc etc.

Once you get through those minor obstructions,....
Frijoles

United States

#41988 Oct 16, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
ewwww....gross!!
:))
We did a version of yichud at my wedding. We ate sushi and chilled out for a few minutes. No sheet, no blood, no touching...

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