Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday 70,105
Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family. Full Story
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#41689 Oct 8, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Your premise is so stupid that my only recourse is to label it so.
Sorry.
I still love you :)
Well, when it all shakes out, that's all that really matters. Now if we could only spread that outlook across parties and religions, huh?

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41690 Oct 8, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>What Romney said is that it is stupid to keep borrowing money from China to keep getting stuff we can't afford to pay for, and because we can't afford to pay back China.
I disagree since whenever they get a firmer position they invariably (rebups that is) talk about abolishing healthcare and stae-schooling and almost any and all funding for research and development of viable sustainable energy sources.
As in there real face/agenda showing.

Apropos that list of suggestions of reform that are now halfway implemented...was that not just tokenism, as in the usual rethoric to get elected by repubs?
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#41691 Oct 8, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its funny how the birthers never asked any of the OTHER candidates for president to produce their birth certificates.
Nor did anyone really raise the issue in previous elections pre-Obama.
Gee, I wonder what is different about THIS president?
duh
No. Eisenhower was required to provide a birth certificate, as in the link I provided. He was pretty damned white.

I don't care where he was born - he will be history in 4 weeks or 4 years.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41692 Oct 8, 2012
The idea was not bad, but none could have reckoned with 'new financial products'.
They did not exist then.
Nor a housing bubble.

Nor with 2001 9/11 and the following 17% drop in world-trade. nor with the outrageously expensive war following.
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#41693 Oct 8, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are absolutely correct.
So tell me why the Republicans are doing everything in their power TODAY to do away without just about all of those?
And why someone should vote for a party that TODAY wants to do away with all of that?
And while we are at it, please tell me what happened to all the moderate Republicans? You know, the ones that used to initiate and/or support the legislation such as the ones you just cited.
And finally, how are these laws, that you proudly cited, supposed to be enacted without a class of professional regulators?
I think they're still out there. If you dig a little deeper into some of the issues the EPA has gotten into, far outside their mandate IMO, it seems those professional regulators need a board of regulators to oversee them.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41694 Oct 8, 2012
former res wrote:
According to Fox News columnist Sally Kohn, vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan's speech at the Republican National Convention on Wednesday "was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech."
"On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold," Kohn wrote.
In a surprising move, Fox News joined CNN, The Huffington Post, the Washington Post's Wonkblog, and ThinkProgress in publishing a fact-check of the Republican vice presidential nominee's speech, finding that the speech was full of lies and misleading assertions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/30/fox-...
http://www.freakingnews.com/We-Love-Big-Bird-...

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41695 Oct 8, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>No. Eisenhower was required to provide a birth certificate, as in the link I provided. He was pretty damned white.
I don't care where he was born - he will be history in 4 weeks or 4 years.
There is not a democratic country in the world, where none has to show his/her birth-certificate when applying for any public function, particularly in government.
So it is not that strange, but asking for it based on 'complicity with reli-terrorists' is way out of line.

Apropos Israel. Yes jerusalem is the capital but what Obama pointed out was that various groups (let's include the soddin pantzer-pope) all claim a piece.
So it might be historically and de jure (and Obama's profound wish), but factually the dispute is ongoing. So no role for America as long as hizb and hamas a.s.o. are in charge.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41696 Oct 8, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>Not sure what EPA and OSHA has to do with racism..?
Being independant from foreign energy, that cost an arm and a leg in paying for peace and non-interference.
Or decent use of materials so your sky-scrapers, roads and bridges do not collapse, nor houses in ever increasing amounts of hurricanes due to oceanic sligh rise of water-temperature...

No they would not.
But fighting for America's independance and sustainability (i would say a conservative agenda also, since they never went with neo-liberalism) in the long run should not be fought so vile and race-directed as it is.
And counter-productive.

The emotion that you dismissed was the genuine feeling of disenfranchised people feeling a new hope, albeit through the symbolism of the first ever elected black president.
I've skimmed several sites and i would say racism has never been so outspoken bar groups that always catered in it.

But Sea you would vote conservative if you could, so have you ever actually laid the let's say good conservative agenda next to the democratic one, and made a comparison?

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41698 Oct 8, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>I think they're still out there. If you dig a little deeper into some of the issues the EPA has gotten into, far outside their mandate IMO, it seems those professional regulators need a board of regulators to oversee them.
Everywhere in America you see nepotism and usury and not merit based organizations. So sooner or later everything get slightly grubby.
But the same we see happening in Europe...costly.

People do what you inspect, not what you expect.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41699 Oct 8, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_En...
The day to day business is handled by states and even cities.
So who is overstepping?

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41700 Oct 8, 2012
http://www.osha.gov/
There is also a EU OSHA.
Companies, especially the smaller ones are none to happy, but this is to do with unification of rules to the highest standards.
It would not be such a problem, if they never signed the silly constitution that obligates nations to pay a certain amount to an overarching military. Which is usually exactly the amount they would need to make their countries competitive and still pay decent wages.
Furthermore this constitution states that worker-rights and social rights can be revoked if the payments to the military fall through.

Just one of the many reasons ordinary people in France and Holland disagreed. But the weird thing is that those very rules were created by the Dutch that for the longest time wanted a Dutch NATO head, and the price to pay was to betray the people and lie about it.
Failed privatisation falls in the same category.
No drip down effect, and particularly not leading to cheaper competitive rates nor better service.
And by moving the bill to 2014 they could still show a positive balance.

You could called it the libertarian fairy-tales.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#41702 Oct 8, 2012
MAAT wrote:
1 and 2 the easiest way of finding out is to follow exactly what influenced the image of Jesus. It indeed means going through reams of Gnostic writings.


3 they were not the only reason but as usual in any society you find that trade decides who stays in power. It would be naief to suggest that ideas do not filter down from the ruling class.

4 I see little Judaism and frankly still found no reason to suppose some judaid -Christianity.(Still can't find that book or any writing by Rehme, so as to scrutinize the content).

Influences might have been there, but the Hadith shows time and again that when Hebrew try to explain their philosophy and show the content of the unchanged book that it is discarded of hand, because their is such a huge gap and it is obvious with the adaptation of jesus that islam is closer to Christian ideas and influences. Also given the mainly christian arab tribes. Not so ignorant, i would say. And as a matter of fact we still find superstitious customs rife i muslim communities.



2.

As has been shown when discussing the original codex Sinaiticus, which does not mention the name Jesus anywhere, but that talks, about 'simple man','the people' or 'proof for simple mans eyes'...instead of using the or any name, we find that modern christians are not willing to accept this version.
You would think they would jump in the air for joy in finding an original that brings them closer to the
Ans.

01. Please do the research and come out with your findings. Just assuming somethings is not what I call is scholarly approach

02. Trade is one aspect of social interaction not the Only aspect. You are doing the same mistakes as Communists did to define world only thru stomach and fight between haves and have nots. They superimpose their own ideas over history and world events and draw their own conclusions and then present that as truth and nothing but truth

03. Again your claim about Judaic influence is based on false assumptions. Never did islam claimed that it was a new or unique religion. It claimed that it is the same old religion of all prophets.

So if you find something common between islam and Judaism, islam and Christianity, it proves that these teachings of Judaism and Christianity are still intact.

04. Just look at your ramblings about codex Siniaticus words that have no real meaning. Based on assumptions and doubts and deductions that have no proof.

That is the case with all such posts.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41703 Oct 8, 2012
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41704 Oct 8, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
01. Please do the research and come out with your findings. Just assuming somethings is not what I call is scholarly approach
02. Trade is one aspect of social interaction not the Only aspect. You are doing the same mistakes as Communists did to define world only thru stomach and fight between haves and have nots. They superimpose their own ideas over history and world events and draw their own conclusions and then present that as truth and nothing but truth
03. Again your claim about Judaic influence is based on false assumptions. Never did islam claimed that it was a new or unique religion. It claimed that it is the same old religion of all prophets.
So if you find something common between islam and Judaism, islam and Christianity, it proves that these teachings of Judaism and Christianity are still intact.
04. Just look at your ramblings about codex Siniaticus words that have no real meaning. Based on assumptions and doubts and deductions that have no proof.
That is the case with all such posts.
That's the drawback of quoting 01 what are we talking about?
02 define the other aspects if trade was not the ONLY pertinent factor.
03 the hadith makes it obvious that is discredits judiac influences at every turn. And the verses in the quran are so out of context.(take chapter the cow that is actually about the scapegoat, as we analyzed.) So it is half-understood or not at all. You have to let go of some ingrained thinking like the age of ignorance when in fact most tribes were christian in the days of muh ahmed. And probably also that any story actually happened anywhere near mekka S.A.(As in rays shooting form the vagina of the prophets mom to be seen reflecting from the palace and walls of Damascus...or is the world still flat in that region.)
Or Abraham and living thousand of years ago, but simultaneously making different appearances in meeting nimrod.
You are asking quite a lot to put all of that on judaic or christian influences.
04 We spend months going over the codex sinaiticus in particular.
Dropped it for a while and pick it up again.
To make it easy we sticked to the mention of the name-title and title. With sidesteps to whether as is the latest claim judaism can be called early christianity and now we get judeo-christianity as early islam. Life sure is getting interesting.
I quote from the general opinion on christian boards and use established scholars and the actual text to find out if the claims are correct and /or if there are other points of views.
But frankly i've been looking in this for years, as you should well know being familiar also with the FFI board.
Hmm if i've not seen it, it does not exist? Peculiar attitude for a believer.
But i'm not going over 27,000 differences just to make some point.
Others did that allready.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41705 Oct 8, 2012
Ah
MAAT wrote:
1 and 2 the easiest way of finding out is to follow exactly what influenced the image of Jesus. It indeed means going through reams of Gnostic writings.

Well if you start to make claims, we can do that together.
Fair's fair.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41706 Oct 8, 2012
pg 1896 i showed a page of christian influences, plus a reading list with sources; now it would be about finding out what those people believed.
Greek philosophical knowledge (by war of via the Damascus court? First syriac arabic writing happened overthere. See FFI somewhere for the actual source. grin) came form constantinople after it split from Rome but had the same tenets.

But we started out with your simplistic claim.
MUQ wrote:
Jesus of Quran is a much sublime and true personality than what we find in contradicting reposts of Gospels.

The source of knowledge of Quran is Allah, who knows EVERYTHING about jesus and none of the Gospel writer can match His knowledge.
--
So frankly it would be up to you to deliver the positive proof that the description is more sublime and true. And this would have to be significantly neutral and salient to be convincing.

In the hebrew book YHVH nor Elohyim had a son.
Israel metaphorically the bride in isaiah.
Allah however might have had three wifes or daughters depending on the narrative.
And level of appeasement that was first needed.

So you are allready mixing oil and water.
---
I think the writers of the hadith and quraan (uthman et al)tried to come to some universal creed, that would be easy for trade.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41707 Oct 8, 2012
MUQ in the who's allah thread you quote some answering christianity forum i gather.

Which leads to odd interpretations. one i picked:
Painfull but funny.
http://biblos.com/genesis/49-10.htm
http://bibe.cc/genesis/49-10.htm
shiloh: and jacob is waiting for his son to return from Shiloh, a variant name for Egypt.

Not a sheilakh (or by any other variant spelling) prophet.

But frankly that would not be relevant.
What would be is the old texts and their actual content in as far as they circulated, plus the views of the people.
We are lucky that eastern translations are quite well documented. However not any easier. i've been breaking my head over some appellation, if they are that, in Syriac.
Did later people also have no ideas and was it indeed just IUXU being badly translated and later replaced by the name-title.
Or did this become the tale told untill it became tradition. Not questioned.
Where modern people as in scholars REALY want to know what it actually meant.

I dropped that for a while also, since i could make no headway.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41708 Oct 8, 2012
Very quiet morning.
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allah-pre-isl...
So MUQ why do arabs and muslims thus get so ticked of when it is suggested that allready since the establishement of Mekka/Bakkah that we put at 400 CE Al LAH was allready reveered.

If according to your dogma He (a definite male, with definite male points of view that happen to coincide with the timeframe mores.) has always been.

Uhm in the west we do not consider younger books with the on average same content to overtake an older tradition.
That only happens in religion and science fiction.
Usualy if the oldest version conflicts with the younger, the older tradition is upheld.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#41709 Oct 8, 2012
Ishmael moved to the north.
We have ancient macca along the silkroute and zamzam simply as noun meaning fast flowing abundant water, plus water lord's of kabaas allover the near and middle east.
Beqa should sound familiar.

And the abraham hagar narrative was brutal. Abram forcing egyptian Hagar to walk 400 miles, highly pregnant. To nowhere whatsoever, carrying the kabaa on his back. 3000 BC, meeting nimrod at 1300 BC.

But there are many other contradictions, nicely resolved by declaring them weak/strong fiqh.
---
But let's stick with the simple, thus the character of jesus.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#41710 Oct 8, 2012
To: MAAT

That is the endless type of discussions I was afraid of!!

Once I start replying to your post, we are sucked into an infinite alley with side issues and one more side-side issues...

After 1000 or so posts, we find we are back where we started!!

I have no stomach for such type of discussions.

Discussions for the sake of discussions.

You have many people that have the same tendency as you. Our Frijoles, Bufford and Joel Pastaka are ideal for your kind of discussions, not me.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Monterey Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Live Oak stabbing is second in two days (Jun '08) Oct 17 savvylocal 245
International CIT conference comes to Monterey Oct 14 DO Powers 1
where can I find heroin in monterey? Oct 8 thazzleb17 2
Pacific Grove Girl Chelsie Hills Law suit. Rea... Oct 3 Siding with Toyota 1
Carmel waste broker accused of bribery (Dec '08) Sep '14 Shelly 12
Suri Cruise's dog is missing in Los Angeles Sep '14 fancy 3
Dennis W (Veeser) from Krakow Wi. Sep '14 Mia 1
Monterey Dating
Find my Match

Monterey Jobs

Monterey People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Monterey News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Monterey

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]