CA Proposition 23 - Global Warming

Created by CitizenTopix on Oct 12, 2010

4,593 votes

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Yes

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Other (explain below)

RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6214 Nov 11, 2012
Pete-o wrote:
<quoted text>
And you couldn't be more wrong, nearly every single scientist involved in Climate Research agrees it is happening AND we are causing it, the jump in CO2 levels alone should be enough evidence.
But I doubt you would even understand.
You are probably are a Creationist too, you fit the profile, anti-science.
The "precautionary principle" is a favourite Greenie idea -- but isn't that what George Bush was doing when he invaded Iraq? Wasn't that a precaution against Saddam getting or having any WMDs? So Greenies all agree with the Iraq intervention? If not, why not?
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6215 Nov 11, 2012
The claim that oil is a fossil fuel is another great myth and folly of the age. They are now finding oil at around seven MILES beneath the sea bed -- which is incomparably further down than any known fossil. The abiotic oil theory is not as yet well enough developed to generate useful predictions but that is also true of fossil fuel theory

Help keep the planet Green! Maximize your CO2 and CH4 output!

Global Warming=More Life; Global Cooling=More Death.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6216 Nov 11, 2012
Pete-o wrote:
<quoted text>
And you couldn't be more wrong, nearly every single scientist involved in Climate Research agrees it is happening AND we are causing it, the jump in CO2 levels alone should be enough evidence.
But I doubt you would even understand.
You are probably are a Creationist too, you fit the profile, anti-science.
Do you look at it as I'm threatening your self esteem. Which is why the normal Leftist response to challenge is mere abuse.
redblooded

Peytona, WV

#6217 Nov 11, 2012
In Denmark, if the sea between Sweden and Denmark freezes and a Swede crosses the ice on foot, you're allowed to beat him/her with a stick until they leave. Best part? It's in our constitution so it's nearly impossible to change it

EDIT: Shimfs pointed out in a reply that it's not our constitution but just the Danish Law. I did some quick searching around, and couldn't find a proper source, but I've found the explanation for the law: In the winter of 1658, the sea between Denmark and Sweden (Øresund) froze solid enough for the Swedish army to cross (we've always been fighting, check our history, it's not pretty) and it ended up with Denmark loosing a lot of territory. According to everything I can find on the internet, this was what led the Danish king to make this law.

Since: Jan 08

San Mateo, CA

#6218 Nov 12, 2012
RiccardoFire wrote:
The latest scare is the possible effect of extra CO2 on the world’s oceans, because more CO2 lowers the pH of seawater. While it is claimed that this makes the water more acidic, this is misleading. Since seawater has a pH around 8.1, it will take an awful lot of CO2 it to even make the water neutral (pH=7), let alone acidic (pH less than 7).
In fact, ocean acidification is a scientific impossibility. Henry's Law mandates that warming oceans will outgas CO2 to the atmosphere (as the UN's own documents predict it will), making the oceans less acid. Also, more CO2 would increase calcification rates. No comprehensive, reliable measurement of worldwide oceanic acid/base balance has ever been carried out: therefore, there is no observational basis for the computer models' guess that acidification of 0.1 pH units has occurred in recent decades
Facts are funny things-

CO2 in the atmosphere has increased from 278 ppm in pre-industrial times to 390 ppm today. During this time, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the ocean has risen by more than 30%[iii], decreasing the pH of the ocean by 0.11 units. As with CO2 and global warming, there is some lag between cause and effect. That means that, even if all carbon emissions stopped today, we are committed to a further drop of up to 0.1 units.

CO2 dissolves in water to form carbonic acid.(It is worth noting that carbonic acid is what eats out limestone caves from our mountains.) In the oceans, carbonic acid releases hydrogen ions (H+), reducing pH, and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-).
TheyFall

Covina, CA

#6219 Nov 12, 2012
How much more can the Republican tea party be now days?

They drink to much and fall down, just like stupid drunks they have become.

Tax hikes and immigration reform on the table, triggering a GOP civil war.

No one wants to see or hear from them again, they are finished and they know it.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6220 Nov 12, 2012
Pete-o wrote:
<quoted text>
Facts are funny things-
CO2 in the atmosphere has increased from 278 ppm in pre-industrial times to 390 ppm today. During this time, the amount of CO2 dissolved in the ocean has risen by more than 30%[iii], decreasing the pH of the ocean by 0.11 units. As with CO2 and global warming, there is some lag between cause and effect. That means that, even if all carbon emissions stopped today, we are committed to a further drop of up to 0.1 units.
CO2 dissolves in water to form carbonic acid.(It is worth noting that carbonic acid is what eats out limestone caves from our mountains.) In the oceans, carbonic acid releases hydrogen ions (H+), reducing pH, and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-).
Written by who? If the earth really WERE warming that would reduce the acidity "problem", because warmer water would outgas CO2. It is only the present situation where CO2 levels are increasing WITHOUT any temperature rise that could theoretically cause a problem. So whichever way you jump, the Warmist argument loses: Either the earth is not warming or there is no acidity problem. What is it?
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6221 Nov 12, 2012
Ocean pH varies by 0.3 naturally.

Claims of acidification since 1750 are based on dubious models and few observations.

There are reasons to assume that marine life will not be overly affected by an increase in ocean acidity due to atmospheric carbon dioxide:

Ocean life evolved and survived far higher levels of CO2 for millions of years in the past.

Marine organisms actively create carbonate shells (using energy) which means crustacea, corals and molluscs aren’t automatically prey to pH changes in the same way that say a limestone rock would be.

The world’s oceans may have warmed a mere 0.17C since 1955, hardly a significant threat to marine life.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6222 Nov 12, 2012
TheyFall

Covina, CA

#6223 Nov 12, 2012
FUBAR - is the standard SOP that the Republican tea baggers party operates under NOW.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6224 Nov 12, 2012
I doubt Al Gore would ever want to debate Professor Brice Bosnich FRS, is Gustavus F. and Ann M. Swift Distinguished Professor in Chemistry at The University of Chicago, Emeritus, and is currently a Visiting Fellow at the Research School of Chemistry, The Australian National University?

Since: Jan 08

San Mateo, CA

#6225 Nov 12, 2012
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Written by who? If the earth really WERE warming that would reduce the acidity "problem", because warmer water would outgas CO2. It is only the present situation where CO2 levels are increasing WITHOUT any temperature rise that could theoretically cause a problem. So whichever way you jump, the Warmist argument loses: Either the earth is not warming or there is no acidity problem. What is it?
"The current rate of change is much more rapid than during any event over the last 65 million years. These changes in ocean chemistry are irreversible for many thousands of years, and the biological consequences could last much longer."
- The InterAcademy Panel, June 1, 2009
As surface waters become more acidic, it becomes more difficult for marine life like corals and shellfish to form the hard shells necessary for their survival, and coral reefs provide a home for more than 25% of all oceanic species. Tiny creatures called pteropods located at the base of many oceanic food chains can also be seriously impacted. The degradation of these species at the foundation of marine ecosystems could lead to the collapse of these environments with devastating implications to millions of people in the human populations that rely on them.
Stupid Willard

Covina, CA

#6226 Nov 12, 2012
Willard Mitt Romney would have been a disaster from an environmental perspective.

He has said that there remains a lack of scientific consensus on the extent of the warming, the extent of the human contribution, and the severity of the risk.

I guess that it may be only about a 95 percent consensus, not 100 percent.

Then again, history has spoken - No stupid Willard's allowed in the White House.
Rethumpedlicans

Anderson, CA

#6227 Nov 12, 2012
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Do you look at it as I'm threatening your self esteem. Which is why the normal Leftist response to challenge is mere abuse.
what allowed you to get up on this whole

"ill bet you feel really inferior"

kick....

ill remind you again. becasue it doesnt seem to be sinking in that quickly....

Obama 332

romney 206

period.

you guys LOST that election, but you still seem to be in denial.

i certainly dont want YOU to feel inferior, just because you lost two prsidential races in a row.....after all your party won three in a row, in my lifetime!

but we want to pass a middle class tax cut, and for that we need congress to participate in the governing process.....

something we pay them big sums of cash to do.

it has litle to do with you.....or how we feel about ourselves...

it has more to do with what we think would be benefical for the middle class.....having more money to spend....!!

since you havnt chimed in on this subject??

mabey I should just assume you only want those making over 250000 a year to get their tax cuts renewed....

of course im not waiting for an answer, as you dont seem to have one..
Rethumpedlicans

Anderson, CA

#6228 Nov 12, 2012
RiccardoFire wrote:
Scientists have politics too -- sometimes extreme politics
exactly, especially when they see their bank accounts swell....

from all that paid for corporate science....

corporate science tells the industry what it wants to hear....

actual science uses empirical data, and is tested again...

then there are naked eye obsevations....

you seem blind to them.
Stupid Willard

Covina, CA

#6229 Nov 12, 2012
Like watching two crooks keeping tabs on others?

Huff and Conway say they will remain active pushing public policy, but they also will hold Democrats accountable if the state tilts too far left.

Since: Jan 08

San Mateo, CA

#6230 Nov 12, 2012
Stupid Willard wrote:
Willard Mitt Romney would have been a disaster from an environmental perspective.
He has said that there remains a lack of scientific consensus on the extent of the warming, the extent of the human contribution, and the severity of the risk.
I guess that it may be only about a 95 percent consensus, not 100 percent.
Then again, history has spoken - No stupid Willard's allowed in the White House.
No doubt he is one of the head in the sand crowd, like many on this thread. Who knows Romney's motivations, mainly one just to get elected, but it's really curious why anyone else would not believe Climate Change is not happening.

Either it's following for corporate oil muddying the waters so to speak, or possibly they are connected to the industry.

The other strange thing is by addressing Climate Change we can lower our energy dependency, and advance new technologies while slowing climate change.

You never hear why that is a bad idea. You only hear we have to drill for oil here, but they don't understand that will do nothing because that oil goes on the world market, unless we nationalize, which would be Socialist, irony.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6231 Nov 12, 2012
Pete-o wrote:
<quoted text>
"The current rate of change is much more rapid than during any event over the last 65 million years. These changes in ocean chemistry are irreversible for many thousands of years, and the biological consequences could last much longer."
- The InterAcademy Panel, June 1, 2009
As surface waters become more acidic, it becomes more difficult for marine life like corals and shellfish to form the hard shells necessary for their survival, and coral reefs provide a home for more than 25% of all oceanic species. Tiny creatures called pteropods located at the base of many oceanic food chains can also be seriously impacted. The degradation of these species at the foundation of marine ecosystems could lead to the collapse of these environments with devastating implications to millions of people in the human populations that rely on them.
Can't answer my questions? Try again.

Written by who? If the earth really WERE warming that would reduce the acidity "problem", because warmer water would outgas CO2. It is only the present situation where CO2 levels are increasing WITHOUT any temperature rise that could theoretically cause a problem. So whichever way you jump, the Warmist argument loses: Either the earth is not warming or there is no acidity problem. What is it?
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#6232 Nov 12, 2012
Rethumpedlicans wrote:
<quoted text>
exactly, especially when they see their bank accounts swell....
from all that paid for corporate science....
corporate science tells the industry what it wants to hear....
actual science uses empirical data, and is tested again...
then there are naked eye obsevations....
you seem blind to them.
Who gives them grants? Now the idiot blames corporations? lol....The argument that has you lost involves chemistry. A college professor is not owned by a Corporation. I gave the source, did you check out his credentials? Here is another one that is not in America being sold by those corporations..lol.....Prof. Richard Dronskowski a chemist and physicist. he has a faculty position at the Solid State and Quantam Chemistry Deapartment at the RWTH Aachen and is the winner of the Otto-Hahn-Medaille Award of the Max-Planck Society. He’s a member of the Collegium of the German Resarch Society, member of the German Physical Society and the American Chemical Society. This is indeed a surprising development for Germany. Prof Dronskowski should not wake up tomorrow morning and wonder why many other German scientists, who are swimming in climate funding, are suddenly no longer talking to him.
Climate funding is from the Government. Dronskowski Slams Global Warming Science – Calls Mann’s Hockey Stick “A Very Very Nasty Fabrication” Remember the great Gore's movie?

Do you remember scientists warned of cooling” in 1970s?

Since: Jan 08

San Mateo, CA

#6233 Nov 12, 2012
RiccardoFire wrote:
<quoted text>Can't answer my questions? Try again.
Written by who? If the earth really WERE warming that would reduce the acidity "problem", because warmer water would outgas CO2. It is only the present situation where CO2 levels are increasing WITHOUT any temperature rise that could theoretically cause a problem. So whichever way you jump, the Warmist argument loses: Either the earth is not warming or there is no acidity problem. What is it?
Already answered your question a few posts back. The Earth is warming AND acidity is a problem.

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