Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 Full story: www.cnn.com 201,187

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

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Big D

Modesto, CA

#193697 May 29, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
We'll know what SCOTUS decides,(if they decide to decide), in less than 30 days.
The SCOUTS decision while interesting, I doubt will be earth shattering. And in the long run, will not affect to momentum.

Section 3 of DOMA is dead meat, I donít think anyone with any intellectual capacity at all will refute that. Even the conservative justices where asking some pretty negative questions about the validity of section 3

As for the rest

DOMA section 2 will likely stand, meaning states will not be forced to recognize marriages preformed in other states. But section 3 going down will mean federal recognition of same sex marriages, that in itself is a huge victory.

More likely however is for the SCOTS to just toss Prop 8 back to the state, Dismissed as improvidently granted is the term I think. Ruling that the supporters of Prop 8 have no standing as they are NOT the government and can show no harm whatsoever from the overturn of Prop 8 ( always a critical flaw in their case )

If it gets tossed back to the state, the state judicial system has already overturned Prop 8 in court and appellate court, the stay will be lifted and same sex marriages will once again occur in California.

Even the worst case scenario, they uphold Prop 8, it will fall in the next election cycle anyway.

The SCOTUS ruling is interesting, and may be a faster track, but no matter which way they rule, the momentum will continue to recognize same sex marriages.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193698 May 29, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh yeah, they say they hate big government, but support a government that steps into your private life, trying to tell my daughters that the government gets to control their bodies, their own reproductive systems. Or one that tells you who you can marry and who you cant.
They call themselves conservatives, but I have never figured out exactly what it is they conserve, it isnít the environment, certainly not our nations finances, certainly not our nations values of freedom, justice and equality.
They conserve (or preserve) the status quo.

The are afraid...of just about everything - new, different, etc.

The label of "conservative" is a misnomer.

I believe it has a lot to do with personality type. Some people are just followers, and are afraid unless they have a majority or mob to back them up. Those are "conservatives." Other people live life, aren't afraid to be the only one in the room who is doing/saying/thinking/wearing something, and aren't afraid of change. Those are "normal." LOL

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193699 May 29, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have a fairly accurate view of society. What you are missing is the importance of each point. Children are the future of our culture. We are severely undermining their potential by these acts. There is no better place most often to raise children than in an intact family.
No, we undermine childrens' potential by teaching them bigotry.

While it may (or may not) be the "ideal" for a child to be raised in an intact (mom/dad) family, we do not prohibit other families from existing, and many, MANY children from single parent households and gay parent households will outperform and be better adjusted than many children from more traditional households, and especially more than the effed up step-family situations.
Adam Mosh

Sunnyvale, CA

#193700 May 29, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
You're a twit.
It's not about "the news" and there is no economic scenario that will affect my life more than simple legal recognition of my already existing marriage.
OK. People are just more dumb than I imagined.

I mean, really, you think whether the government recognizes gay marriage or not effects your life more directly than say, the fact that the government takes in a tax revenue of 16 dollars for every $100 it owes and borrows 40 dollars for every 100 it spends.

It doesn't seem like there's any point in reasoning with you. That ability to seems to be broken.

I've seen 2 nations go bankrupt in my lifetime through direct experience. The USSR and Argentina. I guess we'll just have to suffer through it too.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#193701 May 29, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
They conserve (or preserve) the status quo.
The are afraid...of just about everything - new, different, etc.
The label of "conservative" is a misnomer.
I believe it has a lot to do with personality type. Some people are just followers, and are afraid unless they have a majority or mob to back them up. Those are "conservatives." Other people live life, aren't afraid to be the only one in the room who is doing/saying/thinking/wearing something, and aren't afraid of change. Those are "normal." LOL
I love to remind them of our nationís founding, by extreme, even radical liberals of their day

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193702 May 29, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Duplicate husbands? An oxymoron.
Kids don't have two dads. Never. One may be the dad, but the other is always a default.
You aren't asking me to raise my standards, you are asking me to be stupid.
No, you already are stupid, and you clearly don't understand the proper use of the word 'oxymoron.'

Kids don't have two biological dads. But some kids are raised by two dads, and many kids have a dad and a stepdad (and call them both "dad" or again, two different names meaning dad.)

This isn't hard for the kids to understand, yet you seem to have a big hangup about it.

Whether you choose to acknowledge the reality in front of your face or to continue to delude yourself, the fact is gay couples do and will always raise children, and they have just as good a shot at raising great ones.

So, once again, my husband and I are each husbands. Deal with it.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#193703 May 29, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
I will vote in favor of it when it comes up, think of it as a jobs program, can you imagine a divorce of one person out of the marriage?
Full employment for our Lawyers!
Seriously though, I donít see a reason not to vote in favor of it.
Of course you should (but won't) thank Frankie for your new tolerance and acceptance. It wasn't long ago you referred to polygamists as "welfare cheats and child rapists using polygamy to commit their crimes." You've come a long way baby!
laughing man

Tempe, AZ

#193704 May 29, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
I love to remind them of our nationís founding, by extreme, even radical liberals of their day
Tell us, Caligula, what they might think of your bread and circus "pride" parade or Folsom Street or bug chasers.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#193705 May 29, 2013
Adam Mosh wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. People are just more dumb than I imagined.
I mean, really, you think whether the government recognizes gay marriage or not effects your life more directly than say, the fact that the government takes in a tax revenue of 16 dollars for every $100 it owes and borrows 40 dollars for every 100 it spends.
It doesn't seem like there's any point in reasoning with you. That ability to seems to be broken.
I've seen 2 nations go bankrupt in my lifetime through direct experience. The USSR and Argentina. I guess we'll just have to suffer through it too.
Yes. Gay marriage kinda loses its importance when you're starving or dead.
Big D

Modesto, CA

#193706 May 29, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we undermine childrens' potential by teaching them bigotry..
That is why we no longer allow any religion in the classroom.
Children are resilient, and even children of ignorant parents ( all prejudice is ignorance by definition ) will come to a time where they realize their parents are wrong.
But we will not teach bigotry from a position of governmental authority like a teacher.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#193707 May 29, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you already are stupid, and you clearly don't understand the proper use of the word 'oxymoron.'
Kids don't have two biological dads. But some kids are raised by two dads, and many kids have a dad and a stepdad (and call them both "dad" or again, two different names meaning dad.)
This isn't hard for the kids to understand, yet you seem to have a big hangup about it.
Whether you choose to acknowledge the reality in front of your face or to continue to delude yourself, the fact is gay couples do and will always raise children, and they have just as good a shot at raising great ones.
So, once again, my husband and I are each husbands. Deal with it.
You should take your own advice for it is good advice- Deal with it.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#193708 May 29, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have a fairly accurate view of society. What you are missing is the importance of each point. Children are the future of our culture. We are severely undermining their potential by these acts. There is no better place most often to raise children than in an intact family.
When gay marriage is legal in the U.S., there will still be intact families to raise children.

And, since 1993, gay people have been able to adopt children in the U.S. That was before gay marriage was legal anywhere in the country. So regardless of what happens to gay marriage, gay people will continue to be able to adopt children in this country.

Put a period at the end of this chapter and move on...
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#193709 May 29, 2013
Marriage. There is no one right way.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#193710 May 29, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Duplicate husbands? An oxymoron.
Kids don't have two dads. Never. One may be the dad, but the other is always a default.
You aren't asking me to raise my standards, you are asking me to be stupid.
Gurrrlll... Nobody has ever HAD to ASK you to be STUPID! You've been stuck on it for years!

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193711 May 29, 2013
Bruno wrote:
If SSM is so important, then why don't gays go to the states that have fallen under presure and get married. Just get is done and quit crying about it.
We did. Many of us do. However, just like anyone else, we want to live in particular states for particular reasons - either we grew up there, we have family there, or we prefer the climate there or were offered a job there.

I grew up in NJ. I moved to FL when I was 26 because I didn't like winter and had some cousins who lived here.

Eventually I met my husband here. We got married in NJ because I have some family members who don't fly (never been on an airplane in their lives.) NJ considered it a "civil union" at the time, even though we got married. But the only other state at that time that recognized gay marriage was Massachusetts.

Why would we want to move to Massachusetts? We had no friends, family, or job there - and it's cold. So while we may gain legal recognition of our marriage (only at the state level) we would lose a whole lot.

The following summer, when gay marriages were being legally recognized in California (and they didn't have a residency requirement as Massachusetts did at the time) we flew out there and got married. Don't think it didn't cross my mind to move there. As much as I am "east coast" and noticed the difference between the coasts when I spent considerable time in California in prior years - at least it was warm. But my husband did not want to leave Florida because his Dad is still here, and he did not want to leave his Dad.

Ultimately, down the road, when his Dad is no longer with us, might we move to California? It's a consideration, but now we own a home here and have put a lot of work into it. I also own a business here that may not be so easy to relocate. And who wants to go to all that trouble? We're very happy here, and have no desire to leave, all things being equal.

But they're not equal. And he has had type I diabetes since he was 10 years old. We know there will be complications. So if it becomes burdensome to live in a state that doesn't recognize our marriage, we may have to move at some point, even though we don't particularly care to.

A better idea is to work to change the laws in our state and at the Federal level. And we are just itching to sue the state of Florida to recognize our California marriage - especially depending on how the SCOTUS rules at the end of June.
Frankie Rizzo

Union City, CA

#193712 May 29, 2013
Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
I love to remind them of our nationís founding, by extreme, even radical liberals of their day
Yes, those radical liberals who considered homosexuality a capital crime punishable by death. That certainly is extreme.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193713 May 29, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Did it? Mr. Olsen stated that polygamy "raises questions....". He also ignored the fact that polygamy is also prohibited based on status, religion. Gay and lesbians aren't prohibited from getting married, they are prohibited from marrying someone of the same sex. As to the question:
"If you say that marriage is a fundamental right, what state restrictions could ever exist?" Sotomayor asked before referencing polygamy and incest among adults.
What is the answer? If they all consenting adults, and marriage is a fundamental right, what state restrictions could ever exist?
You have been schooled on this before, you just choose to ignore it.

Polygamists can fight for legal recognition RIGHT NOW. They don't need to wait for gay marriage to be legally recognized first, nor would that help their case.

In fact, most (Mormon) polygamists would not even want to be compared with gay couples as they are very anti-gay.

Polygamists have much more in common with traditional marriage than with gay marriage, so that door is open for them right now, as they can ask the question: "If a man can marry a woman, why can't a man marry a woman and another woman?" That is MUCH more similar and logical than saying, "If a man can marry another man, why can't he marry two women?"

Only stupid people don't see that.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#193714 May 29, 2013
Adam Mosh wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. People are just more dumb than I imagined.
I mean, really, you think whether the government recognizes gay marriage or not effects your life more directly than say, the fact that the government takes in a tax revenue of 16 dollars for every $100 it owes and borrows 40 dollars for every 100 it spends.
YES, absolutely. Stupid.(And the sky is blue - surprise!)
Big D

Modesto, CA

#193715 May 29, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>A better idea is to work to change the laws in our state and at the Federal level. And we are just itching to sue the state of Florida to recognize our California marriage - especially depending on how the SCOTUS rules at the end of June.
Tony I donít think the SCOUTS ruling will be that major

They will likely kick it back because the defenders donít have standing ( my opinion )

Which means they will lift the stay and same sex marriages will again be legal in California

the DOMA ruling is actually more important to my mind, federal recognition.

It is a long road, the right thing will happen, but it will take some time.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#193716 May 29, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Did it? Mr. Olsen stated that polygamy "raises questions....". He also ignored the fact that polygamy is also prohibited based on status, religion. Gay and lesbians aren't prohibited from getting married, they are prohibited from marrying someone of the same sex. As to the question:
"If you say that marriage is a fundamental right, what state restrictions could ever exist?" Sotomayor asked before referencing polygamy and incest among adults.
What is the answer? If they all consenting adults, and marriage is a fundamental right, what state restrictions could ever exist?
Religious belief is a conduct. You don't pop from the womb a Catholic or a Jew. You are "raised" to be a Catholic or a Jew. You "learn" to become these things.

All of our best information on homosexuality shows that being gay IS NOT something that is learned. You either are or you are not gay. You come from the womb a gay person or a straight person.

That makes homosexuality a "status"--like race and gender.

And regarding your last question as to "what state restrictions could ever exist?"; that is the whole point of the court battles, legislative processes, etc. No one is saying that the state can't restrict marriage in whatever way it sees fit. However, the LGBT community is attempting to overturn one of the state's restrictions--namely the law that doesn't allow same-gender partners to marry.

You guys continue to try to convince others that if gay marriage is allowed, then the floodgates will open up. And we respond by saying that the state will consider each individual issue brought before it, just like it is considering our issue.

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