Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 | Posted by: Topix | Full story: www.cnn.com

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

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Ronald

Long Beach, CA

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#183882
Mar 19, 2013
 

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heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
right. so where is that phrase in any of the constitution, the bill of rights, or any federal or state law?
heartandmind.

It is not there. The reason it is not there is simple. Unlike England, the founding fathers did not establish a State church. They, and many of their fellows, suffered discrimination and even persecution as a result of not adhering to the authority of the Church of England. Because of that historical experience, the founding fathers established a nation where Christians were free to practice the denomination of their own choosing, and according to their own conscience. Until the Godless "Liberals" seized control of academia, that was common knowledge.

Ronald

“Vita e' Bella.”

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#183883
Mar 19, 2013
 

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heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
it would be considered a fallacy or a sham of a marriage. even the catholic church understands this and allows those types of marriages to be nullified. furthermore, in some instances, those types of marriages would be considered to be illegal insofar if the couple is found to have married under the conditions as described (one being homosexual and the other heterosexual, for example)...they could be found to be trying bilk an insurance company for example, or perhaps for immigration purposes or any number of other possibilities of marrying under false pretenses otherwise known as "fraud"...it may not be fraud to the 2 involved, if they both know about the other, but they entered into the marriage with the idea to defraud for some purpose (insurance, pension, immigration, housing, etc). it may difficult to prove, but if you tick off the DA or SA in the area enough, they could come after you. so, do you really want your daughter to enter into a fraud?
What about if they simply loved one another? Would it be acceptable to you then? Suppose it were an elderly mixed orientation couple who had known each other for years and decided to marry? Does everyone have to marry accirding to one's "orientation"? Are you familiar with Josh Weed?
heartandmind

Moline, IL

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#183884
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
heartandmind.
It is not there. The reason it is not there is simple. Unlike England, the founding fathers did not establish a State church. They, and many of their fellows, suffered discrimination and even persecution as a result of not adhering to the authority of the Church of England. Because of that historical experience, the founding fathers established a nation where Christians were free to practice the denomination of their own choosing, and according to their own conscience. Until the Godless "Liberals" seized control of academia, that was common knowledge.
Ronald
you had me until your last sentence.

it's the selfish "godless" republicans of the 80s that turned me away from being a republican. i couldn't stand how they treated "those people" they deemed beneath them. and still do to this day.

my pastor likes to say that jesus was a liberal - he believed in feeding and clothing the poor, healing the sick. and not charging anyone for those services - he did this freely and willingly to all those that asked or needed his help.

yea, "godless liberals". indeed.
Big D

Modesto, CA

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#183885
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
heartandmind.
It is not there. The reason it is not there is simple. Unlike England, the founding fathers did not establish a State church. They, and many of their fellows, suffered discrimination and even persecution as a result of not adhering to the authority of the Church of England. Because of that historical experience, the founding fathers established a nation where Christians were free to practice the denomination of their own choosing, and according to their own conscience. Until the Godless "Liberals" seized control of academia, that was common knowledge.
Ronald
You need to go back to school, want some quotes form our founding fathers and other notable americans?

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams

"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever." - Thomas Jefferson

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Ben Franklin

"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst." - Thomas Pane

"I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not." - Ethan Allen

"The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession." - Abraham Lincon

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

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#183886
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
You are aware that our money also has the phrase "New Secular Order" written in Latin... right?
Whaddya know....learned something new today from the Wonderful Wizard of Big D, although that moniker sounds like chain of discount stores. Thanks for the bicentennial minute.
those phrases like "in God we Trust" as added to our currency decades after our founders, just as "under God" was added to the pledge in the 1950's and against the wishes of the descendants of the author who did not include such a passage as he didn’t want the pledge to be any kind of prayer, as so apply to everyone equally.
You are talking to someone that knows a whole lot more about this subject than you realize.
Oooooooh. Ahhhhhhhhhhh
You are free to believe, and others are free to believe something else, or not believe at all, and there should be zero difference in the eyes of the law.
Religion, particularly Christianity, is all around us. One doesn't have to believe or disbelieve to see that. As to the law, I suppose that depends on the issue, or law, As a matter of general principal, I agree there should be zero difference in the eyes of the law.
If you don’t agree with that statement, then you are not an American
Born in the USA, grandson of Italian immigrants. Red blooded American with a side of marinara sauce, and a glass of vino.
, THAT is why justice wears a blindfold.
Maybe she's afraid to see the mess.
Big D

Modesto, CA

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#183887
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Whaddya know....learned something new today from the Wonderful Wizard of Big D, although that moniker sounds like chain of discount stores. Thanks for the bicentennial minute.
<quoted text>
Oooooooh. Ahhhhhhhhhhh
<quoted text>
Religion, particularly Christianity, is all around us. One doesn't have to believe or disbelieve to see that. As to the law, I suppose that depends on the issue, or law, As a matter of general principal, I agree there should be zero difference in the eyes of the law.
<quoted text>
Born in the USA, grandson of Italian immigrants. Red blooded American with a side of marinara sauce, and a glass of vino.
<quoted text>
Maybe she's afraid to see the mess.
Perhaps you learned something?

Yes there are a lot of Christians, also a lot of Islam, and Judaism, and Mormonism all the Abrahamic religions, and there is a healthy smattering of other religions as well, Hindu, Buddhism, Wicca, and some more obscure ones, some quite public like Scientology, the fastest growing one however, is no religion at all.

I agree, zero different, regardless of race, creed, color, sex, religion, orientation, or national origin.
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

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#183888
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to go back to school, want some quotes form our founding fathers and other notable americans?
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it." - John Adams
"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever." - Thomas Jefferson
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Ben Franklin
"Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst." - Thomas Pane
"I have generally been denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious I am no Christian, except mere infant baptism makes me one; and as to being a Deist, I know not strictly speaking, whether I am one or not." - Ethan Allen
"The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my profession." - Abraham Lincon
Big D.

Yes. Most of our founding fathers were prolific writers and speakers. It is a weak argument to pull up out of context quotes they may have made without reference to their overall political and religious philosophy.

Ronald

Big D

Modesto, CA

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#183889
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
Maybe she's afraid to see the mess.
Are you implying that you actually dont know why statues of justice wear a blindfold?

I do hope you are kidding, as it relates directly to the topic here.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#183890
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
Rose_NoHo.
Actually, the founding fathers had nothing to do with the 14th Amendment.(snip)
Zzzz...
Big D

Modesto, CA

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#183892
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
Big D.
Yes. Most of our founding fathers were prolific writers and speakers. It is a weak argument to pull up out of context quotes they may have made without reference to their overall political and religious philosophy.
Ronald
In what contact would you take the statement

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Signed by John Adams in the Treaty of Tripoli?

tell me the context other than exactly what he is saying

I do understand that you are BIG into interpretation, as Christians often claim the bible says things it does not say.

But tell me.. what context would you put that in?

This is the man considered the father of the American revolution, the same man that said this would be the best of all possible worlds were there no religion in it.

We can move onto Madison if you like, who coined the phrase Separation of Church and State ( later used by Jefferson ) if you are lost.

Our founders were politicians, and were outwardly Christian as the simple masses were as well, but expressed themselves quite frankly to one another on numerous occasions.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#183893
Mar 19, 2013
 

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commonpeeps wrote:
<quoted text>Oh my gawd how funny is mo ho. Does more good for the anti gays than anone else. Shows how narcisstic and self centered (besides just plain stupid) that self pleasing, self centered, skank, alley walking, transgendered, sausage cankle legged, back door tramp is. Whew! Need to wash my mouth after that.
Stupid, I said "IF that were the case, gay people would just marry a friend of the opposite sex." IOW, IF the only thing gay people were interested in were benefits, they would just marry friends of the opposite sex, and not fight for gay marriage. But, since there is a fight for gay marriage, it's clear they are not just interested in benefits, but in the actual marriage relationship.
Wow, you are dumb.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#183894
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep marriage as is, one an and one woman; keep it simple.
Don't risk harming children for imaginary acceptance.
Rose's Law:
Morons with no real argument scream, "But what about the children!?
Brian_G wrote:
Demand acceptance because you are a human being, not for other political reasons.
Reason 21 for keeping marriage as is: KISS, keep it simple.
You got a divorce. That's hardly simple.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

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#183895
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Stupid, I said "IF that were the case, gay people would just marry a friend of the opposite sex." IOW, IF the only thing gay people were interested in were benefits, they would just marry friends of the opposite sex, and not fight for gay marriage. But, since there is a fight for gay marriage, it's clear they are not just interested in benefits, but in the actual marriage relationship.
Wow, you are dumb.
If they were interested in the actual marriage relationship, of husband and wife, they would marry someone of the opposite sex.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#183896
Mar 19, 2013
 

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No no no wrote:
<quoted text>
F the majority? Wow, isn't that how Obama won, twice, by a majority vote?
OK so fudge the majority who voted for him!
Do you understand that?
LOL. You are so dumb.
No no no wrote:
The constitution does promise equal rights, but it does not mention having a legal definition having equal rights?
Was that supposed to make sense, or was it written by a random word generator?
No no no wrote:
A definition is just that and nothing more, a definition, and it can not deny anything, it's just a definition under the law of what the majority of society says marriage is, it does not refuse gays to marry or to be happy.
No ones rights are being violated,
A man's right is being violated, because he doesn't have a right to marry a man. That's a right a woman has.
And a woman's right is being violated because she doesn't have a right a man does.
No no no wrote:
all you want is to change a legal definition, by which the majority of voters in this country still want to be that marriage is by this legal definition, between a man and a woman.
Fk 'em. The Constitution promises equal rights.
No no no wrote:
Gays can and do get married all over this country in any way shape and form they want, and this definition has not stopped them from doing so.
And just a suggestion, if you want people, that is the majority of Americans to understand and be sympathetic to your point of view, calling them all "Morons" is not going to help!
What about "idiots"?
You're one.
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

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#183897
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Big D wrote:
<quoted text>
In what contact would you take the statement
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
Signed by John Adams in the Treaty of Tripoli?
tell me the context other than exactly what he is saying
I do understand that you are BIG into interpretation, as Christians often claim the bible says things it does not say.
But tell me.. what context would you put that in?
This is the man considered the father of the American revolution, the same man that said this would be the best of all possible worlds were there no religion in it.
We can move onto Madison if you like, who coined the phrase Separation of Church and State ( later used by Jefferson ) if you are lost.
Our founders were politicians, and were outwardly Christian as the simple masses were as well, but expressed themselves quite frankly to one another on numerous occasions.
Big D.

Yes. I agree. Although Adams might have been motivated by ulterior considerations, he could have truthfully represented the United States to not have been "...in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" because the founders did not establish an "official" Government Christian church, as I previously stated.

Ronald

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#183898
Mar 19, 2013
 

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The US Supreme Court has found it's OK to register only 18 year old males for the selective service but not 18 year old females.

There is no gender equality right in the Constitution.

“Vita e' Bella.”

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#183899
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
A man's right is being violated, because he doesn't have a right to marry a man. That's a right a woman has.
And a woman's right is being violated because she doesn't have a right a man does.
[/QUOTE[

A man can marry a man if he becomes a woman first. A woman can marry a woman if she drops the "wo".
Fk 'em. The Constitution promises equal rights.
Not in everything Rosie. Only native born citizens can becone president.

“Vita e' Bella.”

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#183900
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
The US Supreme Court has found it's OK to register only 18 year old males for the selective service but not 18 year old females.
There is no gender equality right in the Constitution.
Rose's law: Equal rights doesn't mean equal responsibility. Good point. If a man can be drafted, so should a woman be drafted. Equality for all.
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

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#183901
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Zzzz...
Rose_NoHo.

I take it you are not familiar with Abraham Lincoln, the great Whig whom the Republicans designated to be their Presidential candidate in 1860. In 1863, Lincoln made a speech to dedicate the Soldiers' National Cemetery in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. At that event, Lincoln made a speech that is now known as "The Gettysburg Address". Lincoln began his speech by calculating:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

If one were to assume all the founding fathers were at an age greater than 20 years, and if four score and 7 is 87, then we can conclude that in 1863, no founding father alive on that date would have had been no less than 107 years of age.(20 years + 87 years = 107 years)= This is unlikely, because Big Government had not yet seized control of the medical industry.

The Republicans inflicted their 14th Amendment on the nation in 1868, some 5 years after Lincoln made his speech at Gettysburg. By that time the youngest founding father would have to have been about more than 112 years of age - highly unlikely. It is for that reason I felt comfortable when I stated in post # 183798:

"Actually, the founding fathers had nothing to do with the 14th Amendment..."

Ronald

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

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#183902
Mar 19, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Or just because a few states have redefined marriage in their states, why should they have to as well, when the voters of the latter states said no?
<quoted text>
Uh huh....so they can't get the best people without nationwide SSM? Sigh.....
If voters had their way in the South, blacks and other minorities would likely still not have equal rights.

It took federal intervention by way of physical force (The National Guard), federal laws, and Supreme Court decisions to make Southern states integrate the races, enact voting rights, etc.

Prior to federal intervention, blacks had two choices; leave the South or stay and be subjected inequality.

Gays are doing the same thing. We've moved away from our rural hometowns into urban areas where there are more tolerant and affirming communities. Gay and lesbian people are statistically more educated and affluent. We take pride in our urban neighborhoods, raising the property value of the properties around us. In fact, many rural communities study “Gay Brain Drain” to see what they can do to keep us from moving away.

Until politicians, religious leaders, and communities are willing to make us welcome, we will continue move to urban areas. We will also fight laws and policies that do not support the rights we believe we are entitled to. We will do this at the ballot box, in the court house, through community organization, in the media, through education, etc.

We aren't going away. We will never go away. It is up to YOU to learn to live with us.

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