As You See It: Aug. 27, 2009

Full story: Santa Cruz Sentinel

So Fred Keeley thinks that "getting rid of the two-thirds requirement would have made a difference for the better" concerning the state budget situation.
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1 - 20 of 22 Comments Last updated Aug 28, 2009
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appreciateve resident

San Francisco, CA

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#1
Aug 27, 2009
 
I agree with Lori Hannun, I passed a convoy of fire engines heading to work the fire several days in a row. I saw Santa Rosa, Petaluma, Sebastapol, Sonoma,Cotati and more. Whenever I made eye contact with them I would say thank you. I could see their smiles and I was glad to be able to let know their work is appreciated.
Mans Man

Santa Cruz, CA

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#2
Aug 27, 2009
 
What part of "living within your means" can't liberals understand. What a crock! I know flocks of conservatives that have lived "way beyond their means" and many are now Bankrupt.

Since: Aug 09

Santa Cruz, CA

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#3
Aug 27, 2009
 
Mans Man wrote:
What part of "living within your means" can't liberals understand. What a crock! I know flocks of conservatives that have lived "way beyond their means" and many are now Bankrupt.
No way! The conservatives would never, say, invade another country, justify it with lies, all so they could get a personal vendetta taken care of with the leader, and spend all of our money on that war. They would never do that.

At least now looking back on that "war" we can all say it was well, well worth putting the Trillions.

The war was fine, but don't you dare try to give a public option for health care! For that, we'll get up a yell "No way!"
Right Lane Ron

Scotts Valley, CA

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#4
Aug 27, 2009
 
Shibangy wrote:
<quoted text>
No way! The conservatives would never, say, invade another country, justify it with lies, all so they could get a personal vendetta taken care of with the leader, and spend all of our money on that war. They would never do that.
At least now looking back on that "war" we can all say it was well, well worth putting the Trillions.
The war was fine, but don't you dare try to give a public option for health care! For that, we'll get up a yell "No way!"
Sure, I appreciate the irony here, however, how many democrats voted to fund that war? It wasn't only the conservatives you speak of.
James Anderson Merritt

Fairfield, CA

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#5
Aug 27, 2009
 
Of course, the war WASN'T fine. And neither are any additional steps (not to mention those already taken) in the direction of socialized medicine. What the gang in power and their supporters do not seem to understand is that nationalizing health care or suffering with the current, broken system we have now are not the only two options. But they seem to be the only two options that get any attention from the media and powers-that-be. Why is that?

At times like these, I appreciate being neither conservative nor liberal. At best, either camp has only half the solution -- which is to maximize freedom across the board and make government less of a factor in our lives.

That said, I hope liberals will give the war criticisms a rest unless and until "their guy" actually gets us out of the wars they blame on the "other guy." The wars are still going and brave Americans are still dying. I suppose the current President, from the Chicago area, is OK with that because the dead vote for his party all the time back home.

“Where Did All the Money Go?”

Since: Sep 08

Ben Lomond, CA

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#6
Aug 27, 2009
 
Elwin Haddix wrote:
Taxes no solution

So Fred Keeley thinks that "getting rid of the two-thirds requirement would have made a difference for the better" concerning the state budget situation.
...SNIP...
For any spending using California Personal Income Tax (PIT) revenues, we should RAISE the requirement from two-thirds (67%) up to 85% or perhaps to 98%. Afterall, just 2% of California taxpayers pay half the bill and while the other 98% of taxpayers pays the other half.

The following chart uses data freely available for download from California’s Franchise Tax Board (FTB, or California’s IRS).
http://www.ftb.ca.gov/aboutFTB/Tax_Statistics...

Sorting that data by the percent of PIT taxes paid by population results in the following chart that clearly shows the state’s need for revenues falls on a small minority of taxpayers (i.e., electorally insignificant).
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IcTTTYdTZQM/SnNlpeI...

If distributed equally, the "average" or per-taxpayer state tax bill would be $3,100. By population, 85% of taxpayers paid below the average while just 15% paid above the average. Amazingly, half of the entire PIT tax bill is paid by just 2% of taxpayers. The other 98% of taxpayers pay the other half. The 2/3 majority requirement is the ONLY real check against runaway spending, and admittedly not a very good one.

The majority of Californian’s already pay less than the "average", even at the 66.7% population level. In fact, that electorally-strong 2/3rds contributed only 6% to the entire PIT tax bill, insulating them from the true cost of California government. Who would vote against more free stuff? The electorally-weak 1/3 of taxpayers pay the other 94% of the bill. Remember those 2% that pays 50% of the PIT bill? Well, because PIT is half of California’s revenues, those 2% provided a full quarter of the entire state’s revenues (thank you, my beloved fellow Californian). That 2% of taxpayers equates to a city the size of Riverside, CA or about 280,000 people. California’s entire population is roughly 37 million, so we’re talking less that 0.8% of the entire population. But sticking them with the bill for government overspending is fair, right (he writes with fingers dripped in sarcasm)?

You want a simple majority to pass taxes and spending? Okay, then flatten the PIT tax curve or allow a simple majority for spending below natural growth (inflation + population) or both. Anything above natural growth requires a two-thirds supermajority.

“Where Did All the Money Go?”

Since: Sep 08

Ben Lomond, CA

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#7
Aug 27, 2009
 
Right Lane Ron wrote:
<quoted text> Sure, I appreciate the irony here, however, how many democrats voted to fund that war? It wasn't only the conservatives you speak of.
True. Fortunately, the roll call votes for the Iraq was resolution were recorded and available for all to see.

House:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml

Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_ca...

Since: Feb 08

Santa Cruz

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#8
Aug 27, 2009
 
Mans Man wrote:
What part of "living within your means" can't liberals understand. What a crock! I know flocks of conservatives that have lived "way beyond their means" and many are now Bankrupt.
True, there are enough people of all political walks who have lived beyond their means, but the members of congress and state legislatures who overwhelmingly want to spend more than the budget will allow (and therefore want higher taxes) have been the liberal/democrat party. And this goes back a long way.
csb

Aptos, CA

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#9
Aug 27, 2009
 
The Iraq war resolution gave the president the choice of war if it was deemed NECESSARY. It did not tell the president to go to war.
Keeth

Fremont, CA

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#10
Aug 27, 2009
 
"What part of "living within your means" can't liberals understand."

Shouldn't there be a question mark at the end of that question?

There are plenty of conservatives who also cannot live within budgetary means all across California and the nation, but this does not justify liberals doing the same.

At some point we have to pay for the services we demand, and we'll get the quality of service we pay for. If we cut education, we'll have a bleaker future. If we raise taxes, we'll have less to spend for our own daily lives but may get more in the long run (note: i said "may"). I don't know the solution, but the truth hurts either way we go.

Ripping off the American people is a team sport in a shallow and very limited two-party system. Neither party alone will save us. Only fools think their party is always right and will save us all.
Keeth

Fremont, CA

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#11
Aug 27, 2009
 
Carl Bendix wrote:
<quoted text>True, there are enough people of all political walks who have lived beyond their means, but the members of congress and state legislatures who overwhelmingly want to spend more than the budget will allow (and therefore want higher taxes) have been the liberal/democrat party. And this goes back a long way.
So when we were borrowing money from China during the Republican years, but we weren't raising taxes to cover our costs, we were cutting taxes, this means that we were living within our means?

Since: Feb 08

Santa Cruz

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#12
Aug 27, 2009
 
Keeth wrote:
<quoted text>
So when we were borrowing money from China during the Republican years, but we weren't raising taxes to cover our costs, we were cutting taxes, this means that we were living within our means?
Democrat-controlled congress for the last 10+ years. There is where the resolutions were made.
Keeth

Fremont, CA

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#13
Aug 27, 2009
 
Carl Bendix wrote:
<quoted text>Democrat-controlled congress for the last 10+ years. There is where the resolutions were made.
The Democrats controlled Congress for the last 10+ years? Huh? I thought the Republicans controlled Congress from 1994-2006. Am I living in bizarro world or are we just not understand what the other is saying?
My two cents

Alameda, CA

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#14
Aug 27, 2009
 
Just want to say I agree with Elwin Haddux that Keeley is a dork.
Caelum Sinclair

Aptos, CA

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#15
Aug 27, 2009
 
Carl Bendix wrote:
<quoted text>True, there are enough people of all political walks who have lived beyond their means, but the members of congress and state legislatures who overwhelmingly want to spend more than the budget will allow (and therefore want higher taxes) have been the liberal/democrat party. And this goes back a long way.
Hey, check this out:

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/thefederalbudg...

Interesting...debt starts going down after WWII, until...Reagan...starts going up...keeps going up with Bush...until...Clinton...start s going down...until...Bush...
Caelum Sinclair

Aptos, CA

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#16
Aug 27, 2009
 
Carl Bendix wrote:
<quoted text>Democrat-controlled congress for the last 10+ years. There is where the resolutions were made.
I'm sorry, what were you saying again...?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

Sure looks like Republicans were a majority in both houses from 1994-2006 doesn't it?

Since: Aug 09

Santa Cruz, CA

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#19
Aug 27, 2009
 
Soquel by the Creek wrote:
<quoted text>
True. Fortunately, the roll call votes for the Iraq was resolution were recorded and available for all to see.
House:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml
Senate:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_ca...
Wow. I love that the defense of the Bush regime lying to get us to attack Iraq is "your guys said it was ok." Whatever, you're right. Bush and Cheney shouldn't be held accountable because other people voted for it.

And yes, the war is still going...

James, I agree with you wholeheartedly, I fancy myself one of them there libertarian's for the most part, and wish they would all stop thinking we don't all see the lies that they act out on tv for us to follow.

“Where Did All the Money Go?”

Since: Sep 08

Ben Lomond, CA

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#20
Aug 27, 2009
 
Shibangy wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow. I love that the defense of the Bush regime lying to get us to attack Iraq is "your guys said it was ok." Whatever, you're right. Bush and Cheney shouldn't be held accountable because other people voted for it.
And yes, the war is still going...
Believe me, I am not defending the Bush Administration's Iraq War efforts. However, there is plenty of blame to go around. G.W. Bush and Cheney shouldn't be the sole scapegoats, if you want to place real blame.
The Socialist Joker

United States

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#22
Aug 28, 2009
 
Keely's a good little Liberal Democrat who never encountered a tax increase he didn't love! Removing the 2/3 threshold vote to raise taxes would be absolute nirvana for a Liberal! Unlimited tax increases to foster all manner of Socialist programs and wage and benefit increases for millions of union government employees for continued votes! Bend over Mr. and Mrs. tax payer, the Dems are on the loose and they' are coming to strip you bare and do you up right in the bobo!
Keeth

Fremont, CA

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#23
Aug 28, 2009
 
Soquel by the Creek wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe me, I am not defending the Bush Administration's Iraq War efforts. However, there is plenty of blame to go around. G.W. Bush and Cheney shouldn't be the sole scapegoats, if you want to place real blame.
What ever happened to "the buck stops here"? I thought we had only one commander-in-chief.

But if you wish to spread the blame around, then it should be spread to all 300 million Americans, you and I included. While we're at it, we can blame all 61 million Brits, all 62 million French, all the millions of other allies (bribed and not) who went into Iraq with us... heck, let's just blame the whole world for allowing us to go into Iraq -- all 6 billion of them.

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