Star fights to open adoption court case

Mar 22, 2007 Read more: The Indianapolis Star 32
An Indiana appeals court soon will begin reviewing in secret the case of a single 60-year-old New Jersey man who hired a surrogate mother to deliver twin girls for him. Read more
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imzhammer

Union, KY

#1 Mar 23, 2007
Hey Star...are you really worried about "my right to know" or is that just a code word to describe your own greed?
It needs to be SAID

AOL

#2 Mar 23, 2007
imzhammer wrote:
Hey Star...are you really worried about "my right to know" or is that just a code word to describe your own greed?
Who cares what the STAR's motive is. We need to know and sometimes the "media" are the ONLY ones that can get to the truths in these matters!! GO INDYSTAR. So do you have a motive for making such a comment??? Not GREED - how about just showing ignorance?
Curious Person

Indianapolis, IN

#3 Mar 23, 2007
Is the essence of this that the Star will deceide what should be made public and what may be confidential? Sorry, I will trust the Court system to make that decision versus self-serving media persons.
Citizen One

Louisville, KY

#4 Mar 23, 2007
This is one case where I will side with the government, (as much as it pains me to do so). The Star has no right to see these records. What is going on is bad enough, as it is without the press and their tabloid leanings getting involved. Privacy is something that is required in these cases and that should be respected. The Star and the masses have no interest in this or any other adoption cases. It is difficult enough for all the parties involved without the addition of prying and meddlesome entities outside of the case.
Michellin the bastard

Carlsbad, TX

#5 Mar 23, 2007
Now the star knows what it means to be an adoptee in the state of Indiana. They won't even allow adoptees to see their own records. Adoptees have to have someone look at them for them. We are the forever children of adoption. Well I am all grown up. It should be my right to view records that record my birth. It is not up to the state legislature nor the adoption agencies of the state. Adoption agencies use this secrecy thing to cover up what they did to the women back then. What they did was not a pretty picture. Prison inmates were given better treatment than the Girls Who Went Away. Adoption records should be open to those actively living adoption. This includes adoptees, their birth parents, and their adoptive parents. But no we are the forever children of adoption.
Mike B

Fishers, IN

#6 Mar 23, 2007
What buisness is it of the Star? Stick to printing tabloids.
Hmmmm

Indianapolis, IN

#7 Mar 23, 2007
You are writing about yourself.

That is not news.

Stop it.
Change the law then

Indianapolis, IN

#8 Mar 23, 2007
Senator Bray, if you don't like how expansive the adoption statute is concerning the confidentiality of adoption records, then change it. It's the General Assembly's statute, after all, and it is therefore the General Assembly's to change. But until you do, don't blame the clerk for following a statute so broadly written that it clearly encompasses appellate court records, especially when the statute subjects a court clerk to criminal liability if he/she discloses records deemed confidential by the statute. Instead of faulting the clerk for taking the statute's words at their plain and ordinary meaning, shouldn't you praise him for following the law and acknowledge that it is the General Assembly's draftsmanship that is really the problem. The "do as we mean and not as we say" solution you appear to advocate is bad public policy. After all, do we really want court clerks deciding when the General Assembly's statutes really mean what they say and when they do not?
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#9 Mar 24, 2007
""The Star and the masses have no interest in this or any other adoption cases.""

That is a total untruth!! For far too long adoption has been a snake pit of 'secrets'. The only people that closed adoption records truly protects, is adoptive parents, adoption lawyers and adoption agencies. It is well past time for these ancient adoption laws to be challenged and overturned. Most assuredly most adoptees and/or natural mothers do not benefit from 'secrets and lies'. Bring adoption out of the shadows and into the light of day!!
Amyadoptee

Carlsbad, TX

#10 Mar 24, 2007
Adoptees and their families don't even have the right to view their own adoption records. I would like to know how the Star expects to see these records. Because if the Star has the right to see those records, then so do the adoptees of Indiana. The sealing of records does not protect anyone but the adoption agencies, their attorneys, and their lobbyists. When adoptees, birth parents, and adoptive parents want their records, when are the state legislators going to listen to us. WE are living adoption. The agencies like St. Elizabeth Coleman, attorneys like Steven Kirsh, and their lobbyists are profitting from it. When is adoption going to stop being about money?
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#11 Mar 24, 2007
""adoptive parents want their records""

What records do you think adoptive parents are entitled too????? THEIR Records?? They are MY Records, a mother who lost a child to adoption! No Way, Jose! they can have their Act of Adoption (Finalization) Records,sans any information about me. Adoptive parents have no right to my personal and medical history without my written consent, of which I would never give! I already 'gave' enough.. The only person who I would give my medical and personal history to.. is directly to the now adult I lost to adoption 42 years ago. Closed Records should only be opened to the surrendering Mothers and Adopted People...equal access for the 2 primary people who are shut out from viewing and owning these records. These records are about the mother as well as the adopted child, BEFORE the Act of Adoption (finalization). BEFORE the adopters took possession of the baby. We aren't talking about Previous Owner of Vehicle Records here!
Amyadoptee

Carlsbad, TX

#12 Mar 24, 2007
My adoptive parents got nothing except the birth certificate. That was the amended copy of it. There are "adopters" who do want the records for the child's sake. The enemy here is the adoption agencies, the attorneys, and their lobbyists. I understand fully how you feel about them. I have done enough research on them. I look at the money in adoption. Closed adoption makes everyone hurt. Children are not property of their parents either side. If adoption is in the best interest of the child, why are the records closed? It protects those that profit.
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#13 Mar 24, 2007
""Children are not property of their parents either side"

No one here said that the children were 'property' of either side. Human beings are not property, period. The written records that the agency wrote about ME, the medical records recording MY labor & delivery and the birth of My child Before the Act of Surrender are totally about ME and my child Before the surrender, when I was the only mother this child had. We are talking about Closed Records that I would rightly assume are in relation to Closed Adoptions. The greatest percentage of these Closed Adoptions taking place 20 or more years ago. The largest population of adopted people comes from the Closed Adoption Era. With most of these adopted children now adults. So please tell me why these closed adoption records of bygone years should be made accessible to adoptive parents of now adult adoptees??
Amyadoptee

Carlsbad, TX

#14 Mar 25, 2007
Because those records are still closed. If your child was ill, the adoptive parents needed to contact you. Wouldn't you want them to do that? What if your child was incapacitated in some form and could not contact you, wouldn't you want the adoptive parents to contact you? As it stands in Indiana, those records will never be opened. We have to involved the adoptive parents in this. To be honest they are not the problem. Its the adoption agencies and their ilk that are the problem. They take advantage of all of us. From coercing young mothers, milking adoptive parents, and taking advantage of adoptees searching. The adoption agencies need to stay out of the business of families. When adoption agencies like Gladney threatening groups fighting for open records in Texas that they will kill their bill if we don't compromise, who becomes the real enemy? Is it really the adoptive parents?

A blogger I know wrote about how we should not go to the slave owners for support. Unfortunately the Black people of this country still needed the white people to help them get their story heard. Who are the slave owners here? I believe its the adoption agencies. They are the ones dealing in human flesh. Adoptive parents are being hurt by this process just as we are.

Another comment this blogger made that struck home for me is this one. If adoption is so great which child are you willing to give up? If you think about this, you get where these mothers are coming from.
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#15 Mar 25, 2007
""Who are the slave owners here? I believe its the adoption agencies. They are the ones dealing in human flesh. Adoptive parents are being hurt by this process just as we are. ""

Adoptive parents are the ones paying big $$$$$$ for 'human flesh'! There were Slave Traders and Slave Owners.. The Slave-Owners being the people who bought human beings who were held captive on their plantations. If there had been no market for Slaves (people wanting to buy other people) there would have been no Slave-Traders. Adoptive parents have helped to create the 'market' for 'human flesh'by their desire to buy a baby, for whatever the need. When they stop demanding babies be sold to them, the adoption agencies will be out of business. If no one wanted to buy & drink coffee, the coffee bean plantations would cease to exist. Business is always about Supply and Demand...The Demand for a certain product, ensures the business keeps a healthy supply on hand, for those who want to buy that particular product. How many adoptive parents do you know of are writing their state legislators to Open Sealed Records, how many sign petitions for same?? Why do I have this feeling, their numbers are minisicule.
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#16 Mar 25, 2007
""If your child was ill, the adoptive parents needed to contact you. Wouldn't you want them to do that? What if your child was incapacitated in some form and could not contact you, wouldn't you want the adoptive parents to contact you? ""

My 'child' is now 42 yrs old! Do you really believe the majority of adoptive parents from the Closed Era would actually be looking to contact the Ole Burfmuggle??!! What? to donate a kidney, or bone marrow? Spare body parts?? Other than the aforementioned, I sincerely doubt that any OLD adoptive parent would have any need to contact a former burfmuggle. And shouldn't that be the adult adopted person's decision or possibly the spouse or children of the now adult adopted person? How many cases do you personally know of where it was of life-threatening proportions that the need would be so great for an old adoptive parent to contact the ole burfmuggle of an adult adopted person?? I read the adoptive parents forums in many different places and not once have I read the 'need' you have written of, especially about Old adoptions. Rather most wish we would just 'disappear' or stay 'disappeared' as was promised to them (apars) decades ago.
Amyadoptee

Carlsbad, TX

#17 Mar 25, 2007
Do you ever wonder why records are closed? Do you realize this kind of thinking isn't going to get us as a group? WE have to work together. We have to educate all in the process. Adoption isn't a pretty little picture. By invalidating your child's relationship with his adoptive parents, you are diminishing him. By the same token, adoptive parents who invalidate the child's birth parents, they also diminish their son. We both want to change adoption. I would like to see it reformed. I see that you want it abolished. We have to inform people that adoption does have a dark side. We have to inform people that it is a corrupt business. That the rights of those involved are being trampled. If adoption is truly about the child, then why are the records closed? Who are we really protecting? Why can't the child who has become an adult access those records?

Nice to see that you are still around Iris eyes.
Sarah

Bloomington, IN

#18 Mar 26, 2007
I don't like this slave analogy. If adoption agencies are slave traders, and adoptive parents are slave owners, does that would make birth parents the fellow Africans who sold their own people into slavery?

Yes, adoption has a dark side but there seems to be a great deal of anger toward adoptive parents. They may not be perfect but they're doing their best to raise and love other people's children as they would their own. If you're worried about getting in contact with your child, maybe just bypass the parents and attempt to contact the adult child. But Amy is right about one thing, love and loyalty are fierce and criticizing adoptive parents isn't going to win you points with your child.
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#19 Mar 26, 2007
""does that would make birth parents the fellow Africans who sold their own people into slavery?""

You evidently do not know much about Adoption History, especially from the Closed Adoption Era aka The Baby Scoop Era, post WWII thru the early 1970's. What natural mothers do you know of personally who have 'sold' their babies for $$$$$$? I only know that adoptive parents pay big $$$$ to adopt/buy children from agencies, baby brokers, adoption lawyers. Eduate yourself firstly on the History of Adoption in America..then we can have a true discussion. Right now all you are doing is 'spinning' to either defend your adoptive parents or to defend your adoptive parent status. You should also educate yourself on "Slavery" about who and how people were sold into slavery from their own lands.
Chris

Port Arthur, TX

#20 Mar 26, 2007
""If you're worried about getting in contact with your child, maybe just bypass the parents and attempt to contact the adult child.""

BTW...you assume far too much. I searched and found my now adult child on my own several years ago, without records, without any help from the adoption industry or without going thru adoptive parents. A Mother will find a way to find her own child, even after being separated for 34 years. I did and so have many other mothers and adult adopted people. Closed Records are only meant to protect adoptive parents and the adoption industry.

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