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We are self destructing

Erie, PA

#3 Mar 21, 2013
So what you are saying is, if my gun which was locked up in a safe at my house is stolen in a burglary,(because nothing is full proof) and it is subsequently used in a crime, I go to jail? That's absurd!

Since: Feb 10

Erie, PA

#4 Mar 21, 2013
Where do you get the idea that this is the "first responsibility of the 2nd Amendment"? The Second Amendment contains, and has never been read to contain, such a statement. In fact, if you look at the full language, "A well-regulated militia" doesn't mean that it is locked up in a box; it means that it is well-trained. There are no laws imposing such strict liability on the consumer-owners of products. You also don't have a "right" to not have my guns in your neighborhood, whether in my control or not.

Perhaps the focus of your concern should be on those who steal and use the ill-gotten products to harm others. Six months for the victim of a crime? What's next, you'll want to see rape victims locked up because they didn't avoid being a victim? Or someone carjacks me, and I get thrown in jail because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time?
mind your own

Jackson Center, PA

#6 Mar 21, 2013
Lib to the hell yeah wrote:
With great power comes great responsibility.
-Voltaire.
Few things are as powerful as a right that "shall not be infringed". So what I'd like to hear from pro gun people like me (though I don't own one) is if your gun gets on the street and kills my kid how is that not your fault? A burgular can't steal a gun he can't access.
The first responsibilty of the 2nd amendment isn't learning to shoot accurately or even being careful. It's being accountable for your weapon even if outside your sphere of influence. Don't like the responsibility? Don't own a gun. Remember your gun rights end where pro or anti gun right advocates rights begin. And we have a right not to have your gun in our neighborhoods outside of your or a proxy's control.
So here's my plan. If someone is killed with your gun you're getting 5 or 10 years mandatory jail time. If used in a robbery you're getting 1-3 years. If stolen you're getting 6 months but if you don't report it you're getting a mandatory 4 years, though I'm open to suggestions.
This is not punative but puts responsibility where it lies and keeps the government from prior restraint.(You gun nuggets asked for it.)
This is carrot and stick hands off govenment 101. All gun rights advocates should embrace this because keeping stolen guns off the streets should be a priority.
and if someone steals your car and someone gets hurt it should be the same, right? What about if they steal your money and buy a gun? How about if they steal a kids baseball bat and beat someone to death ? Do we hold little league responsible?
You cant hold someone else responible for a criminals actions. There is NOTHING that can stop a determined theif.
And as far as reporting it, I have 4 houses. They all have gun cabinet with firearms in them. I haven't been to the one house in over a year. If a theif were to rob one, I would have no way of knowing, so how do I report it???
snag

Erie, PA

#9 Mar 21, 2013
Lock and load, I got your six!

Since: Feb 10

Erie, PA

#10 Mar 21, 2013
Lib to the hell yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
IMO I countered every thing said here but as the site "expired" I lost a long thought out response, so my soul is crushed. Give me a little time. IMO virtually nothing you've said can be defended.
Take all the time you need. Please remember to use logic, not emotion, and to back up your premise with facts. Thank you in advance for your efforts.
Frank

Fairview, PA

#11 Mar 21, 2013
Lib to the hell yeah wrote:
With great power comes great responsibility.
-Voltaire.
Few things are as powerful as a right that "shall not be infringed". So what I'd like to hear from pro gun people like me (though I don't own one) is if your gun gets on the street and kills my kid how is that not your fault? A burgular can't steal a gun he can't access.
The first responsibilty of the 2nd amendment isn't learning to shoot accurately or even being careful. It's being accountable for your weapon even if outside your sphere of influence. Don't like the responsibility? Don't own a gun. Remember your gun rights end where pro or anti gun right advocates rights begin. And we have a right not to have your gun in our neighborhoods outside of your or a proxy's control.
So here's my plan. If someone is killed with your gun you're getting 5 or 10 years mandatory jail time. If used in a robbery you're getting 1-3 years. If stolen you're getting 6 months but if you don't report it you're getting a mandatory 4 years, though I'm open to suggestions.
This is not punative but puts responsibility where it lies and keeps the government from prior restraint.(You gun nuggets asked for it.)
This is carrot and stick hands off govenment 101. All gun rights advocates should embrace this because keeping stolen guns off the streets should be a priority.
Moronn!
LOL!
RightWingRoy

Meadville, PA

#12 Mar 21, 2013
Because theft is a crime. I could have it in a safe and you could take a torch cutter and steal it. Go and kill someone. Not my fault. I did all in my power. Also, if its just under my bed and my door is locked, theft is the crime. You could steal my car and hit someone with it. Is that my fault too? No.
cheetos

United States

#13 Mar 21, 2013
Simply file off the serial number, if going to be presumed a criminal may as well be one ;)
dead kids in newtown

Stow, OH

#14 Mar 21, 2013
RightWingRoy wrote:
Because theft is a crime. I could have it in a safe and you could take a torch cutter and steal it. Go and kill someone. Not my fault. I did all in my power. Also, if its just under my bed and my door is locked, theft is the crime. You could steal my car and hit someone with it. Is that my fault too? No.
Stick with it roy, the big lie has its hold on you and its not letting go. Not your fault? You did all you could? You'll have to bear with us if we don't go for your bullshit excuses roy. You know why that is roy? Because we have been viciously murdered by a gun toting savage not a car thief.
Real

United States

#15 Mar 22, 2013
dead kids in newtown wrote:
<quoted text>Stick with it roy, the big lie has its hold on you and its not letting go. Not your fault? You did all you could? You'll have to bear with us if we don't go for your bullshit excuses roy. You know why that is roy? Because we have been viciously murdered by a gun toting savage not a car thief.
Too bad the liberal drugged up gun toting savage was able to do the dirty deed in a gun free zone. I'll take my chances with an armed populace.
BuckshotJones

Meadville, PA

#16 Mar 22, 2013
Sounds like good advice if you are a criminal.
RightWingRoy

United States

#17 Mar 22, 2013
dead kids in newtown wrote:
<quoted text>Stick with it roy, the big lie has its hold on you and its not letting go. Not your fault? You did all you could? You'll have to bear with us if we don't go for your bullshit excuses roy. You know why that is roy? Because we have been viciously murdered by a gun toting savage not a car thief.
Your argument is laughable. You've proven through argument that you know criminals don't follow laws, yet you still want to make more laws?
Lib to the hell yeah

Orlando, FL

#18 Mar 22, 2013
ErieRealist wrote:
1)Where do you get the idea that this is the "first responsibility of the 2nd Amendment"? The Second Amendment contains, and has never been read to contain, such a statement. In fact, if you look at the full language, "A well-regulated militia" doesn't mean that it is locked up in a box; it means that it is well-trained.
1) We here dreams happen...in inferred rights. The key is not militia. That means individuals. It's in the meaning of well regulated. People exercising gun rights are regulated now. They aren't allowed in court is an example. So the owners/individuals/militiamen or military men/women are already regulated.

But if guns were WELL regulated they wouldn't be stolen. And as the government has no right to outlaw privately owned guns (at least in the home--that's the right-winger's claim) then regulating them can only regard the OWNER of the gun in the home, not the gun itself.

This is also evidenced if you recall, in that guns according to right-wingers are inanimate objects. So if someone steals a gun and a lamp, he has done nothing more in effect than steal two lamps. So, if my kid's killed with your gun it's on you not a metaphorical lamp thief. That's why it's called YOURS and it's in YOUR home.(See a common thread here?)

And of course these aren't necessarily my interpretations, I'm debating the natural outcomes of the positions you right-wingers hold, in conjunction with what's also is in line with the history of how the constitution has at times been interpreted.
the homeys

Stow, OH

#19 Mar 22, 2013
Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad the liberal drugged up gun toting savage was able to do the dirty deed in a gun free zone. I'll take my chances with an armed populace.
Come down to 8th and wallace and take your chances with an armed populace whitey.
mmmmmm

North Fairfield, OH

#20 Mar 22, 2013
the homeys wrote:
<quoted text>Come down to 8th and wallace and take your chances with an armed populace whitey.
armed... but not brained. there is a diffwerent law in the jungle.. you kill for territory,,,hoors...and canibalism
rich guvno

United States

#21 Mar 22, 2013
i see you reached under your bed and grabbed your "brown shirt" and put it on. liberalism in a mental disorder, but it's understandable because you are from union city.liberals like to get drunk and spew their irrational logic on topix forum, where after a few drinks,idiocy rules....
singapore swing

Ketchum, ID

#22 Mar 22, 2013
so if someone stole your car and got a dui and killed someone, you should go to jail cause it was your car.

you people are so retarded it makes me feel embarrassed to be a human.
Real

United States

#23 Mar 22, 2013
the homeys wrote:
<quoted text>Come down to 8th and wallace and take your chances with an armed populace whitey.
Not going to your Section 8 stupid. Come in my neighborhood and pull your crap and get a hot lead sandwich.
Lib to the hell yeah

Orlando, FL

#24 Mar 22, 2013
ErieRealist wrote:
2)There are no laws imposing such strict liability on the consumer-owners of products. You also don't have a "right" to not have my guns in your neighborhood, whether in my control or not.
2)Perhaps. But there is nothing outlawing it. And while me and my son being killed by your gun isn't in the constitution, providing for the general welfare is in the preamble.

I'm sure you know the federal government has a long history of promoting incentives for innovation. And technology for guns that can only fire by the owner are on the technological cusp if not actually viable. Retro fitting guns with same is on the horizon of potential as well.

But here's the thing. Who cares? Nobody would have to buy such guns or have theirs retro fitted because the NRA would either fight for the right not to have them or else gun righters in general would.

But IF such laws on punishment were passed, think about it and answer, would you take the minimal chance of having your gun stolen the penalty seemed harsh if it did happen? I'd buy the technology.

I think most people would, and there's the incentive for technology...an eager market where now it's probably weak at best. Who's going to retro fit all their guns for an amount that could instead buy them a new gun if they didn't have to? The answer is people scared into it. Isn't that why you shovel your walk?

And again, incentives are one of the ONLY ways to make gun owners more accountable to keep THEIR guns off the street because your type make it that way..........
the homeys

Stow, OH

#25 Mar 22, 2013
mmmmmm wrote:
<quoted text>armed... but not brained. there is a diffwerent law in the jungle.. you kill for territory,,,hoors...and canibalism
You don't need a brain to pull the trigger whitey, your boy lanza showed that.

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