Were the Moors Black?
Self Actualized

United States

#601 Aug 4, 2013
Gene Black wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry i have to dissagree with you about the Berber thing the origional Berbers were from Africa as stated by Stanly Lane Poole
who wrote the BOOK The Moors in Spain
acording to the historians who lived in the region at the time.
I'm responding to this 6 year old post, because I agree with points on both sides. First, yes, it is important for children of all races to learn the contributions of "dark" complected peoples of the world as most european cultural based history books omit the acheivements of people from African decent. On the otherhand, please note these facts: 1) Knight never refered to himself as an Indian. He only named his tribal history, and 2) All Africans are not so-called "black". Africa is a continent shared by many complections of people. So although both sides are correct and incorrect in various areas, the main point of this post is teach all people about the contribuutions that dark peoples have made to the "so-called" civilized world. In my opinion, Modernized world should be uuused as opposed to Civilized, because Civilized Warriors is an oxymoron, meaning they very contridictory meaning. Civilized people do not wage in war! We are a long way from world peace and unity. Unfortunately, I will never see or experience it in my life time. Keep up the great dialogue, but please do so with mutual respect of the post underlying intent, which is to change the world's optic view of dark skinned people and their history. Lastly, it is more important to change the minds of the poor dark skinned peoples of Nortth America America who still have a lot of self hate promoted by 400+ years of oppression. We, dark complected people, are slowly making progress. Each generation is improving in both academic and sports acheivement. Yes, sports are equally important. Sports teach leadership and teamwork. History has proven that kids who participate in athletics make the best leaders. Sports also unify cultures. The balanced scale is key!
Marco

Malta

#602 Aug 4, 2013
One cannot usurp other people's history for whatever reason. The Moors in Spain were not "black". They were mostly Berbers converted to Islam by the conquering Arabs (always a small minority) and of course there were converted Spaniards.

The Berbers who prefer to call themselves Amazigh (singular) or Imazighen (plural) were and aren't "black". They have their own Berber languages, their own costumes and customs especially in their mountain strongholds. Youtube "Amazigh" any video or start with"Yenayer Amazigh Catalunya" on YouTube and look closely at everyone especially the lovely girls. All Berbers
SirX

Kansas City, KS

#603 Aug 5, 2013
Marco

Malta

#604 Aug 5, 2013
SirX wrote:
http://youtu.be/P8M1ey6U5io
We are discussing the Moors of Spain and you gave me a link to one of the stupidest videos on YouTube wherein the uploader took quite a few
photos of statues and coats of arms showing Blacks in various European countries but mostly Germany and called them "The Forgotten Black Nobility of Europe"!!

1.Most Europeans including Mediterranean ones saw their first Blacks ever with the the American forces in World WarII.
2.Europe is not Africa. Where statues are to be seen there is some written reference to it nearby. The uploader should have investigated not make a stupid statement like that
3.Coats of arms aren't portraits, never were. If I were a Black man I would feel highly insulted to see a "Black" head where usually you get griffins, elves, lions, monkeys, dragons, rats
4.Many of these statues and drawings,especially the ones showing beaming very black faces with very red or white lips would have been judged insulting to Blacks
c burd

Chesapeake, VA

#605 Aug 17, 2013
There r no such ppl as Indiana in Amexem unless they come from India. Columbus thought he was in the west Indies and thus come the concept that we r Indian. We r Moors....Read the treaties of peace and friendship and know that as long as u carry the brand of Indian u r U.S property. Chattel property that is. Look it up n a blacks law dictionary. Race is a game that they play with u, ask urself who r u racing really. Ur Nationality and status is all that matters and after that everyone else is property. Check into Abraham Lincolns defense of the Moor. Negro, black,white,Indian, r all slave brands. Wake up, study, know yourself, read turn off the tell-lie-vision. Peace
c burd

Chesapeake, VA

#606 Aug 17, 2013
Marco wrote:
Sicilian Hound. I can't vouch for you or your mother.
Grow up man. Just because you live in a ghetto doesn't mean you have to believe Negrocentric rubbish. Neither the Berbers who formed the majority of the "Moors" in Spain nor the Arabs who led them were Black. There might have been some Blacks indicated by use of the word "Abid" originating at the time. "Abid" is the generic non-insulting word addressed to, and describing Blacks (sub-Saharans)and in use throughout North Africa. "Abid" of course means "slaves"
All I can say is they got u. Pay attention to the universe. She is bring forth the truth. The closer the sun get the more truth u will except. Mother nature is getting rid of the degenerate ppl. If u have to tan to not burn u should question urself y. Not races either, I love all ppl just hope they learn to love self before their lies expose themselves.
Marco

Malta

#607 Aug 17, 2013
c burd wrote:
There r no such ppl as Indiana in Amexem unless they come from India. Columbus thought he was in the west Indies and thus come the concept that we r Indian. We r Moors....Read the treaties of peace and friendship and know that as long as u carry the brand of Indian u r U.S property. Chattel property that is. Look it up n a blacks law dictionary. Race is a game that they play with u, ask urself who r u racing really. Ur Nationality and status is all that matters and after that everyone else is property. Check into Abraham Lincolns defense of the Moor. Negro, black,white,Indian, r all slave brands. Wake up, study, know yourself, read turn off the tell-lie-vision. Peace
You are Moors? What does that mean? I know that the half-White American president posed three times in places in West Africa from where slaves were transported to America. I'm sure that American Blacks were Moors and that Obama was lying.

Now there is a very tiny, little job for you, which I know you will handle with aplomb. Look for some Moorish writing before Colombus.
Anonymous

Burlington, NJ

#608 Aug 26, 2013
The moors were not only black, they were dark as night and according to a Spainard which the Black moors ruled over stated "When they arrived there skin was dark as night and the only thing white about them was there teeth". If that's not enough search up Moors and even in Art Museums they show the dark skinned Moor called the Harem Guard. Now go into google images and find the painting of the Moors sitting and playing chess as there Caucasian female brought them a beverage. There skin was darker then midnight. Almost blue. Just like there bust are made out of Black Marble. Why not make it out of yellow italian marble if they were "Arab". The Moors were black. Done, and done.
Marco

Malta

#609 Aug 27, 2013
Anonymous wrote:
The moors were not only black, they were dark as night and according to a Spainard which the Black moors ruled over stated "When they arrived there skin was dark as night and the only thing white about them was there teeth". If that's not enough search up Moors and even in Art Museums they show the dark skinned Moor called the Harem Guard. Now go into google images and find the painting of the Moors sitting and playing chess as there Caucasian female brought them a beverage. There skin was darker then midnight. Almost blue. Just like there bust are made out of Black Marble. Why not make it out of yellow italian marble if they were "Arab". The Moors were black. Done, and done.
Actually not done and done. There are fifteen other paintings in Alfonso X's games. None besides this painting shows Blacks. If a soccer team scores 15 goals to 1 and you only show me the one goal the inferior team scored you would be an idiot. You probably don't know anything about sculpture. When a sculptor chooses a kind of marble the colour of the marble has nothing to do with the complexion of the sitter. European 8 year-olds know this.
As regards the quotation from the "Spainard" just tell me who he was, to whom he was referring and in the original language
LION

Charlotte, NC

#611 Sep 7, 2013
Marco wrote:
One cannot usurp other people's history for whatever reason. The Moors in Spain were not "black". They were mostly Berbers converted to Islam by the conquering Arabs (always a small minority) and of course there were converted Spaniards.
The Berbers who prefer to call themselves Amazigh (singular) or Imazighen (plural) were and aren't "black". They have their own Berber languages, their own costumes and customs especially in their mountain strongholds. Youtube "Amazigh" any video or start with"Yenayer Amazigh Catalunya" on YouTube and look closely at everyone especially the lovely girls. All Berbers
You keep ignoring all of the evidence. Most early berbers were black.
Most early writers who wrote of the moors only wrote of black negro types.
LION

Charlotte, NC

#612 Sep 7, 2013
Marco wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually not done and done. There are fifteen other paintings in Alfonso X's games. None besides this painting shows Blacks. If a soccer team scores 15 goals to 1 and you only show me the one goal the inferior team scored you would be an idiot. You probably don't know anything about sculpture. When a sculptor chooses a kind of marble the colour of the marble has nothing to do with the complexion of the sitter. European 8 year-olds know this.
As regards the quotation from the "Spainard" just tell me who he was, to whom he was referring and in the original language
alphonso games were showing moros and instruments played by moors. A moro is the white descendent of a black moor from way back.
Grammar Police

Toronto, Canada

#613 Sep 11, 2013
Gene Black wrote:
the word moor means black we have assumed that
the moors were mixed when they invaded Spain
that was what was put into the history books
general tarik was dispatched to the coast line
of Spain along with 700 Berber (black) moors
by musa-ibn-nusair with orders not to invade the
interior which he disobeyed and sacked Spain
the white Arab moors came later to join
in the spoils...see the moors in Spain by Stanley
lane Poole.
The name the rock of Gibraltar was a corruption
of the Spaniards for general gebel tarik's name.
As Africans were being written out of history
580 years were added to the time line to graft
whites onto history to give them a sense of antiquity they never had.
We assume that Rome and grease were European creations but they were Mediterranean inspired
nations instead because at the time there was no Europe
the word Europe was no even being used
see john henrik Clarke
Egypt had gone threw 25 ruling dynasties
before Europe was even born.
That is why you never hear about ancient European
history because it never existed
see john g. Jackson introduction to African
civilization.
The moors in Spain by Stanley lane Poole
Their descendants are scattered around the world today
Have you ever heard of a period, comma, or apostrophe? Here's a tip if you wish to, at the very least, sound intelligent; use them.
Marco

London, UK

#614 Sep 12, 2013
Gene Black wrote:
the word moor means black we have assumed that
the moors were mixed when they invaded Spain
that was what was put into the history books
general tarik was dispatched to the coast line
of Spain along with 700 Berber (black) moors
by musa-ibn-nusair with orders not to invade the
interior which he disobeyed and sacked Spain
the white Arab moors came later to join
in the spoils...see the moors in Spain by Stanley
lane Poole.
The name the rock of Gibraltar was a corruption
of the Spaniards for general gebel tarik's name.
As Africans were being written out of history
580 years were added to the time line to graft
whites onto history to give them a sense of antiquity they never had.
We assume that Rome and grease were European creations but they were Mediterranean inspired
nations instead because at the time there was no Europe
the word Europe was no even being used
see john henrik Clarke
Egypt had gone threw 25 ruling dynasties
before Europe was even born.
That is why you never hear about ancient European
history because it never existed
see john g. Jackson introduction to African
civilization.
The moors in Spain by Stanley lane Poole
Their descendants are scattered around the world today

We are talking about the Moors of Spain not about what American Black authors wrote.The people who know most of all about the Moors of Spain are Spaniards and the Moors of North Africa themselves.

Please don't try to teach us about the history of Spain. We know what happened, the cities or towns in question, the origin of certain words. But if you want I can teach you 4 Mediterranean languages. They have nothing to do with Negroes.

I am glad you know that the Moors were (mostly) Berbers. Hurrah!! Now all you have to do is to visit them especially in the Riff or in Kabilye. If you can't just YouTube "Amazigh" which is the name they call themselves. See any of the 100 odd videos there are.

Glad that you mentioned the origin of the word Gibraltar and "GENERAL" Tarik. Now all you have
to do is to look up Tariq's image on the Gibraltar £5 note. So Google " Gibraltar £5 Bank Note TARIQ"

Juan Malaga

London, UK

#616 Sep 16, 2013
SirX wrote:
http://youtu.be/P8M1ey6U5io
I don't see what statues of Blacks in Germany have to do with the Moors of Spain.(It is irrelevant to what these people have been discussing, but of course there were no Blacks in Germany etc, let alone ruler as the uploading idiot implies.And if you want to find out who the sculptor was, and what he intended to show, just go to local libraries or ask any local historian. You don't upload a photo of a statue and say 'what they are trying to hide from you')

And by the way having black profiles on coats of arms where elves, fairies, leperchauns, dragons, lions, monkeys and rats are usually put is nothing to boast about. I am only surprised tahjt African immigrants have not protested about it.

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#617 Sep 17, 2013
Juan Malaga said

There were no Blacks in Germany etc, let alone ruler as the uploading idiot implies.

KiloEcho replies

This is a typical case of writing off Blacks from European history because of the desire of Europeans to feel superior or racially pure.

If there were no Blacks or Moors (an early word for Blacks) in Germnay can you explain this famous 15C Germany tapestry called Wild Men and Moors?

Crown Moors are living in a castle and they are attacked by wild white men of the forest.

Other Moors are trying to defend the castle

It all happened in 15C Germany.

http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/tapestr...

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wild_M... (Detail_09_of_12).jpg

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/a/afric...

The Moor's head may also have connections with the Hohenstaufan dynasty, which ruled the Holy Roman Empire from 1138 to 1254.

The Emperor Henry VI (1165–97) kept black African retainers.

His son Frederick II (1194–1250), who was also king of Sicily, took a keen interest in the black Muslim population that had remained in Sicily after the island's return to Christian rule in 1061.

He established an enclave for these Muslims near his palace in Lucera in southern Italy, and recruited his musicians and elite bodyguard from the community.

Frederick's use of black Africans can be explained by his desire to present himself as a 'world ruler'.

Their presence symbolised the extent of his power. Other families may have adopted the moor's head on their arms to associate themselves with the Hohenstaufan dynasty.

By 1400 a moor, as a crowned head in profile, or occasionally as a full figure, was relatively common in German heraldry. In time, its usage spread to almost every European country.

Germans absorbed a minority of Black Africans. It is taboo to talk about it.
Juan Malaga

London, UK

#618 Sep 17, 2013
If some German aristocrat had a few Africans, like he kept a few exotic animals, it is nothing to brag about, if someone is a Black American.

The "saraceni" as the Muslims were called in Italy were not "Black Africans" Anyone who is not European is not "Black". They were Berbers (Amazigh) and Arabs, often supplemented by Sunnis and even Shiites and Sufis from the East.

Although I prefer quotations in the language of the country concerned I quote this from Wiki "In 1245, Muslim Sicilians were deported to the settlement of Lucera, by order of Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II.[7] In 1300, Giovanni Pipino di Barletta, count of Altamura, seized Lucera and exiled or sold into slavery its population, bringing an end to the medieval Muslim presence in Italy"

I cannot explain the tapestry you linked to, but perhaps you can! I know I have a gollywog from my infancy and have inherited a metal "Negro coin box" (I'm not Black )

The most important in your links is the one mentioning proverbs etc still in use. The current government in Italy has a African immigrant as "Minister for Integration of Immigrants" She has been the butt of jokes, insults etc. Another minister, defending her, said "She is black, but her heart and soul are white"

But again references to statues in Germany etc have nothing to do with the Moorish culture in Spain, which had nothing, nothing at all to do with Black Africans

Since: Sep 12

Kinshasa, Congo, The Democratic Republic of the

#619 Sep 18, 2013
Juan Malaga said

If some German aristocrat had a few Africans, like he kept a few exotic animals, it is nothing to brag about, if someone is a Black American.

Anyone who is not European is not "Black".

They were Berbers (Amazigh) and Arabs

KiloEcho replies

I am not a Black American AT ALL . My ancestors were not slaves brought to the Americas on slaveships.

The history of Black Africans did not start with our enslavement or colonization by Arabs or Europeans.

No fake Arabo-centric or Euro-centric version of his-tory of North Africa for me

I do not believe a word of it.

Here is the plain truth as stated by respected Western scholars, members of prestigious academies.

Paul Gaffarel (1843-1920), a scientist and a prolific historian of French descent wrote a wonderful passage on races and world dominance.

Several races seem to have, in turn, exercised world dominance, and been at the forefront of civilization.

The order of succession is now very difficult to determine.

However, the Black race appears to be the first.

The Malays hunted down Blacks in the islands of Polynesia; the Hindus chased them far into the interior of the Deccan and Ceylon.

Blacks are represented in Egyptian monuments and easily recognizable by the color of their skin, snub nose and slanted eyes. They were later replaced by invaders.

THE FINAL TRIUMPH OF OUR RACE (THE WHITE RACE) DATES ONLY FROM THE 16C WHEN NATIVE AMERICAN TRIBES WERE DESTROYED OR ABSORBED BY EUROPEANS.

Baldwin, John D. John Denison (1809-1883) who was a member of the prestigious American Oriental Society wrote the following:

It is now admitted that a people of the Cushite or Ethiopian race, sometimes called Hamites, were the first civilizers and builders throughout Western Asia, and they are traced, by remains of their language, their architecture, and the influence of their civilization, on both shores of the Mediterranean, in Eastern Africa and the Nile valley, in Hindustan, and in the islands of the Indian Seas.

As for the Berbers, the original ones, that is unmixed with Europeans or Western Asians, are dark brown skinned Africans who look exactly like their genetic brother from the Horn of Africa.

They have inherited the E3b e1b1b aka Somalid haplogroup from their East African ancestors.

"Ham, having become black because of a curse pronounced against him by his father, fled to the Maghrib to hide in shame....

Berber, son of Kesloudjim [Casluhim], one of his descendants, left numerous posterity in the Maghrib."56*[56*-“Ibn Khaldun,[I]Histoire I, 177–178.

Etymologie et définitions diverses du nom de Maure

http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescrip...

Google translate

The Greeks gave the name of Maourousia at the western end of Africa probably because they met many natives with dark skin, similar to those that we see again today, and this is also why the journey of Hannon reports of Ethiopians, that is to say, black as Maourousiens.

In the early-600s, the Spanish bishop and encyclopaedist, Isidore of Seville wrote:

The Moors have bodies black as night, while the skin of the Gauls is white.

6th A.D.– Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Moors claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi”.

The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those now classified as ancient Berbers, the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco.
African K1N6S

Gilbert, AZ

#621 Oct 6, 2013
Knight wrote:
The real question is : who cares?
<quoted text>
sorry to burst your bubbles but you are not Native American you were just told you were, look at your history. White people used to claim they were Native Americans just to get some of the benefit that the US government gave to Native Americans (land, money etc...) so you are not Native American, you just use that disguise to be racist. SKOOLED BITCH!!!
LION

Charlotte, NC

#622 Oct 7, 2013
all early writers only wrote of black or mulatto moors.
el contundente

Sparkill, NY

#625 Dec 17, 2013
the moors were white no matter what color people say about it...they walways sayng that everybody in the pass were black, what color people realy need is put in their mind that they been slaves that what you have to remember..........

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