Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws

Posted in the Minneapolis Forum

Wade Gustafson

Saint Paul, MN

#2 Dec 16, 2012
If Adam Lanza, Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, James Holmes, Jared Loughner, and Seung-Hui Cho had been treated for their mental health issues, many people would still be alive today.
Republican Caused Deaths

Ukraine

#3 Dec 16, 2012
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment
Wade Gustafson

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Dec 16, 2012
Republican Caused Deaths wrote:
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment
It depends on your definition of 'rational'. Why don't you try me?
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#5 Dec 16, 2012
Republican Caused Deaths wrote:
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment
Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Pro-gun advocates do three things in the wake of every act of gun violence:
Claim it's not about guns.
Argue that the solution is to arm everyone.
Go into hiding.
Those positions are not conversation starters.
NONSENSE....

It's true that is ISN'T about GUNS.
NO, we don't argue that the solution is to arm EVERYONE. WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT NONSENSE FROM?? Certainly NOT from the NRA, or other gun right's advocacy groups....

NO, nobody should go into 'hiding', the best defense is a GOOD OFFENSE.

When you have a RATIONAL ARGUEMENT to PRESENT, backed up by FACTS, not politics, then maybe we can civily talk about HOW to FIX this PROBLEM. Notice that I didn't bring up any POLITICAL PARTY, target any individual, sling MUD like "liberal" or "conservative", etc.

Here is what will be YOUR RESPONSE...

GOP is EVIL, RACIST, GUN-OWNING, TOTING, MASS MURDERERS, responsible for MILLIONS OF SENSELESS MURDERS over the past 400 hundred years.

The FACT IS, is that the COMMUNIST DICTATORS, across the globe, from Stalin, to Mao Tse Tung to Pol Pot, and MANY OTHERS, have EXECUTED FAR MORE.
Republican Caused Deaths

Ukraine

#6 Dec 17, 2012
There is blood on the hands of the GOP and NRA today.
Democrats are liars

Minneapolis, MN

#7 Dec 17, 2012
Republican Caused Deaths wrote:
There is blood on the hands of the GOP and NRA today.
It's Obama's fault.

Obama administration quietly let school security funds lapse

Before Connecticut tragedy, administration eliminated emergency preparedness program,let school violence prevention programs lapse

UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, December 14, 2012 | By John Solomon and Kimberly Dvorak

Politicians across the country are vowing to do more to prevent school shooting tragedies like the one that unfolded Friday in Newtown, Conn. But over the last few years, the Obama administration and Congress allowed funding for several school safety initiatives to lapse.

Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.
Steve

Saint Paul, MN

#8 Dec 17, 2012
Democrats are liars wrote:
<quoted text>
It's Obama's fault.
Obama administration quietly let school security funds lapse
Before Connecticut tragedy, administration eliminated emergency preparedness program,let school violence prevention programs lapse
UPDATED 23:43 PM EST, December 14, 2012 | By John Solomon and Kimberly Dvorak
Politicians across the country are vowing to do more to prevent school shooting tragedies like the one that unfolded Friday in Newtown, Conn. But over the last few years, the Obama administration and Congress allowed funding for several school safety initiatives to lapse.
Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.
Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.
Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.
That would be your teabagger congress letting it lapse fool.
Republican Caused Deaths

Ukraine

#10 Dec 17, 2012
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment

Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Pro-gun advocates do three things in the wake of every act of gun violence:

Claim it's not about guns.

Argue that the solution is to arm everyone.

Go into hiding.

Those positions are not conversation starters.
Wade Gustafson

Saint Paul, MN

#12 Dec 17, 2012
Republican Caused Deaths wrote:
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment
Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Pro-gun advocates do three things in the wake of every act of gun violence:
Claim it's not about guns.
Argue that the solution is to arm everyone.
Go into hiding.
Those positions are not conversation starters.
It is you that is choosing to not have a discussian about gun control. I already volunteered to have a discussion with you, but so far you have declined to participate. A federal law I would certainly support are harsh prison terms for people who make straw purchases in which the weaoons are used in crime. I believe sgraw purchases would be greatly reduced if the penaly were five years for a first offense.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#13 Dec 17, 2012
Republican Caused Deaths wrote:
Pro-gun advocates will never have a rational discussion about gun laws and the 2nd Amendment
Last edited Sun Dec 16, 2012, 06:49 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Pro-gun advocates do three things in the wake of every act of gun violence:
Claim it's not about guns.
Argue that the solution is to arm everyone.
Go into hiding.
Those positions are not conversation starters.
Article published in 2010.

What's the likelihood of an EXTREMELY liberal media outlet publishing an article about firearm related homicides declining while permits to carry concealed weapons increase?

About as likely as Keith Olbermann saying something nice about Sarah Palin, right?

Well, on Wednesday, MSNBC.com actually published a piece with the following shocking headline:

Shhh. Wait. It got better (h/t CNSNews via Weasel Zippers):

Americans overall are far less likely to be killed with a firearm than they were when it was much more difficult to obtain a concealed-weapons permit, according to statistics collected by the federal Centers for Disease Control. But researchers have not been able to establish a cause-and-effect relationship.
In the 1980s and ’90s, as the concealed-carry movement gained steam, Americans were killed by others with guns at the rate of about 5.66 per 100,000 population. In this decade, the rate has fallen to just over 4.07 per 100,000, a 28 percent drop. The decline follows a fivefold increase in the number of “shall-issue” and unrestricted concealed-carry states from 1986 to 2006.
The highest gun homicide rate is in Washington, D.C., which has had the nation’s strictest gun-control laws for years and bans concealed carry: 20.50 deaths per 100,000 population, five times the general rate. The lowest rate, 1.12, is in Utah, which has such a liberal concealed weapons policy that most American adults can get a permit to carry a gun in Utah without even visiting the state.

The decline in gun homicides also comes as U.S. firearm sales are skyrocketing, according to federal background checks that are required for most gun sales. After holding stable at 8.5 to 9 million checks from 1999 to 2005, the FBI reported a surge to 10 million in 2006, 11 million in 2007, nearly 13 million in 2008 and more than 14 million last year, a 55 percent increase in just four years.

It must be noted that all of these vital statistics appeared on the third and final page of this article where likely few readers would see them.

Regardless, the data were supported by charts specifically showing how gun-related deaths have declined as the number of states opting for "shall issue" permits increased:

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/20 ...
Bridgework

Lincoln, NE

#14 Dec 17, 2012
Steve wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be your teabagger congress letting it lapse fool.
It must be frustrating having a political party as impotent as the Democrats. Apparently they can do nothing.
Bridgework

Lincoln, NE

#15 Dec 17, 2012
Wade Gustafson wrote:
<quoted text>
It is you that is choosing to not have a discussian about gun control. I already volunteered to have a discussion with you, but so far you have declined to participate. A federal law I would certainly support are harsh prison terms for people who make straw purchases in which the weaoons are used in crime. I believe sgraw purchases would be greatly reduced if the penaly were five years for a first offense.
The 3 people arrests over operation Fast and Furious got about a year in prison each. It is an absolute joke.

“We have 545 traitors.”

Since: May 11

Parts Unknown

#16 Dec 17, 2012
Wade Gustafson wrote:
If Adam Lanza, Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, James Holmes, Jared Loughner, and Seung-Hui Cho had been treated for their mental health issues, many people would still be alive today.
Well they ignored this bit of common sense, didn't they?

The problem isnt guns, its how we deal with the mentally unstable.
Steve

Saint Paul, MN

#17 Dec 17, 2012
Bridgework wrote:
<quoted text>
It must be frustrating having a political party as impotent as the Democrats. Apparently they can do nothing.
Sometimes they do seem impotent. I guess that makes republicans eunuchs.

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