Duluth argues free speech doesn't app...

Duluth argues free speech doesn't apply at holiday lights display Bentleyville

There are 68 comments on the TwinCities story from Dec 18, 2011, titled Duluth argues free speech doesn't apply at holiday lights display Bentleyville. In it, TwinCities reports that:

First Amendment rights don't apply at a bayfront Christmas attraction, the city of Duluth argued in an objection filed Friday in federal court.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at TwinCities.

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#44 Dec 19, 2011
cantmakeitup wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely nothing. As much as I think that the Fred Phelps types of the world are inconsiderate, insensitive asshats the still have a right to speak their mind in public. They were, however, denied the "right" to attend the funerals (and protest) of those whom they hold so accountable for the state of our world.
What a lot of people keep forgetting is that freedom of speech is not unlimited. Both the fighting words and captive audience rules can come into play when talking about the Fred Phelps protests.

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#45 Dec 19, 2011
Walter wrote:
<quoted text>
These issues have come up before. Preachers at gay pride get-togethers in Mpls.
What they do is preach on public property just outside the rented public space. What's wrong with that?
If they are on the public space then there is nothing wrong with that. If they are on space rented by a private organization, then it is not longer public space.

Since: Sep 11

Champlin, MN

#46 Dec 19, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
What a lot of people keep forgetting is that freedom of speech is not unlimited. Both the fighting words and captive audience rules can come into play when talking about the Fred Phelps protests.
If I remember correctly, the last appeals court they ventured in to prohibited them from protesting within a certain distance from the funerals. But if they are on public property and not blocking traffic they are free to protest within the bounds of local law.

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#47 Dec 20, 2011
cantmakeitup wrote:
<quoted text>
If I remember correctly, the last appeals court they ventured in to prohibited them from protesting within a certain distance from the funerals. But if they are on public property and not blocking traffic they are free to protest within the bounds of local law.
Once again fighting words and captive audiance rules apply even if on public land.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

#48 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
What a lot of people keep forgetting is that freedom of speech is not unlimited.
Very true.
Walter

Minneapolis, MN

#49 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again fighting words and captive audiance rules apply even if on public land.
How does your extreme example apply in this case?

Captive-Audience Doctrine Law & Legal Definition

Captive-audience doctrine refers to a legal principle prohibiting a person from making intrusive speech. It is also known as the captive-audience rule. The rule is recognized under both constitutional law and labor law. Under labor law, the rule prohibits a party to a union election from making a speech on company time to a mass assembly of employees within 24 hours of an election.

However, the captive-audience doctrine does not apply when the unwilling audience is located on a public street or sidewalk because they can avoid the unwanted message simply by walking away or averting their eyes. The captive-audience doctrine can be used outside the residential setting when the degree of captivity makes it impractical for the unwilling viewer or auditor to avoid exposure.[Sabelko v. City of Phoenix, 846 F. Supp. 810, 825 (D. Ariz. 1994)].
http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/captive-audi...

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#50 Dec 20, 2011
Walter wrote:
<quoted text>
How does your extreme example apply in this case?
Captive-Audience Doctrine Law & Legal Definition
Captive-audience doctrine refers to a legal principle prohibiting a person from making intrusive speech. It is also known as the captive-audience rule. The rule is recognized under both constitutional law and labor law. Under labor law, the rule prohibits a party to a union election from making a speech on company time to a mass assembly of employees within 24 hours of an election.
However, the captive-audience doctrine does not apply when the unwilling audience is located on a public street or sidewalk because they can avoid the unwanted message simply by walking away or averting their eyes. The captive-audience doctrine can be used outside the residential setting when the degree of captivity makes it impractical for the unwilling viewer or auditor to avoid exposure.[Sabelko v. City of Phoenix, 846 F. Supp. 810, 825 (D. Ariz. 1994)].
http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/captive-audi...
People in a cemetery are not on a public side walk or street. Multiple states and other jurisdictions have passed anti-funeral protest laws based on these principles. Even though the Supreme Court eventually ruled in favor of the Phelps in one incident regarding their hate speech, I find it hard for anyone to think mocking a dead soldier and their family at his funeral would not be considers fighting words and that saying "the parents raised the soldier to be a minion of the devil" would be libel/slander.
Walter

Minneapolis, MN

#51 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
People in a cemetery are not on a public side walk or street.
Not all cemeteries are on private land.
Walter

Minneapolis, MN

#52 Dec 20, 2011
Duluth barred from arresting law abiding street preachers at festival
http://www.startribune.com/local/135936928.ht...

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#53 Dec 20, 2011
Has it been cleared up if they are on the land being leased to the private orginization, or are they on public land out side that area?
Walt

Minneapolis, MN

#54 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
Has it been cleared up if they are on the land being leased to the private orginization, or are they on public land out side that area?
It looks like it's open to the general public including the Preachers. Why discrimimate?

Bentleyville Tour of Lights - "Bentleyville, a free family event for all to enjoy."
http://www.bentleyvilleusa.org/Home/Bentleyvi...

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#55 Dec 20, 2011
Walt wrote:
<quoted text>
It looks like it's open to the general public including the Preachers. Why discrimimate?
Bentleyville Tour of Lights - "Bentleyville, a free family event for all to enjoy."
http://www.bentleyvilleusa.org/Home/Bentleyvi...
Because the private company that leased the land had asked them to stop and then asked the city to remove them.
Walt

Minneapolis, MN

#56 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
Has it been cleared up if they are on the land being leased to the private orginization, or are they on public land out side that area?
Bentleyville rules:

"No political campaigning, religious preaching or public attempts to convert others' beliefs"
http://www.bentleyvilleusa.org/Rules.aspx

I guess some of these rules don't apply when you get use of the public park without paying a rental fee. If you don't pay it's open for everyone.
Walt

Minneapolis, MN

#57 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the private company that leased the land had asked them to stop and then asked the city to remove them.
Who's the private company that leased the land?
Walt

Minneapolis, MN

#58 Dec 20, 2011
JTY wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the private company that leased the land had asked them to stop and then asked the city to remove them.
02.Bayfront Festival Park. This includes the entire Bayfront Festival Park Grounds, including the Family Center Building. To inquire about rates and fees, and available dates, please call Bayfront Festival Park Manager.
http://www.secretserviceconcerts.com/bayfront...

Is Bentleyville paying any rates or fees or is the city giving it to them gratis?

JTY

Since: Sep 08

Olathe, KS

#59 Dec 20, 2011
Walt wrote:
<quoted text>
02.Bayfront Festival Park. This includes the entire Bayfront Festival Park Grounds, including the Family Center Building. To inquire about rates and fees, and available dates, please call Bayfront Festival Park Manager.
http://www.secretserviceconcerts.com/bayfront...
Is Bentleyville paying any rates or fees or is the city giving it to them gratis?
It was listed that Bentleyville is a none profit that rents the park for this show. I have no idea how much they pay, or if they pay the normal price.

P.S. www.bentleyvilleusa.org
icouldusesomehel p

Huntington Beach, CA

#60 Dec 20, 2011
If I worship at the altar of the southern preacher Dixie Normus, can I stand on the corner and yell "oh Lord help me, it's heavy"?
Tim j

United States

#61 Dec 8, 2012
jw in the grove wrote:
those evil lights are offending the people.
Get a life! What is offensive about expression?
Bob Schmahl

Minneapolis, MN

#62 Dec 8, 2012
What kind of idiot responds to a post from a year ago?
Tim j

United States

#63 Dec 8, 2012
jw in the grove wrote:
those evil lights are offending the people.
This is for the children! Get a life and quit complaining about things that will have no real effect on your life or anyone else!

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