Democracy in America

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“I am always right.”

Since: Oct 09

Former MN Taxpayer

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#1
Oct 16, 2013
 

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OK, the title of this thread is inaccurate. It really should read: "The evolution of the American Economy". But then, who would read a thread by that name.

This is really for all my friends on the Left side of the aisle. I challenge you to read the following statement and honestly compare it to the state of the economy in the United States today.

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Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled
leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.

Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.

To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.ht...

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If you remove the word fascism, and replace it with the term Obama Administration, you will have the game plan of the current President.

I dare you to offer proof to the contrary.

Since: May 11

Burnsville, MN

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#2
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Well I read the whole thing. Other then being kinda boring. I don`t find it true at all. When I started my business there was no government official telling me what my product line is to be. Nobody told me what my production level was, where my finances was. Nobody is taking my excess income. I can go on but I think you get the point.

“I am always right.”

Since: Oct 09

Former MN Taxpayer

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#4
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Snake Dr wrote:
Well I read the whole thing. Other then being kinda boring. I don`t find it true at all. When I started my business there was no government official telling me what my product line is to be. Nobody told me what my production level was, where my finances was. Nobody is taking my excess income. I can go on but I think you get the point.
It is fascinating that you start your statement with “When I started my business…” Have you been in business for more than 5 years? That is the time line that I am discussing. The past 5 years.

When you started your business, didn’t you have a mountain of regulatory paperwork from the DOE, OSHA, and all of your local entities to “guide you” in your compliance with the myriad of government imposed regulations based on your SIC code and your location? You sure as hell did.

You say that nobody is taking your excess income. Well, then you obviously are not very successful. Are you paying less total taxes as a percentage of your income now than you were 10 years ago? Ever heard of the AMT? Does that apply to all taxpayers at an equitable rate? Didn’t Obama campaign on increasing taxes only on the top earners?

To quote Barack Hussein Obama:“We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I do think at a certain point you've made enough money…”

Everyone who has had a steady job for the past 10 years is paying a higher percentage of their total income in the form of taxes now.

And heaven forbid that you are successful. Then they specifically say they are going to target you and make you pay more. That is “taking your excess income”.

Now…what about the government’s takeover of the auto industry, banking, healthcare, home mortgage, pharmaceutical, insurance, agriculture, and on, and on, and on. You can not start a business in any of the above areas without the official Okie Dokie of the government prior to opening your doors. And in most instances, you will never even get that chance.

You are either a liar or are very naive. As a business owner, the government controls your every move – and it becomes more intrusive by the day.

Read the description again. That is the Obama Administration to a “T”.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

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#5
Oct 16, 2013
 

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IrishMN wrote:
<quoted text>

Now…what about the government’s takeover of the auto industry, banking, healthcare, home mortgage, pharmaceutical, insurance, agriculture, and on, and on, and on. You can not start a business in any of the above areas without the official Okie Dokie of the government prior to opening your doors. And in most instances, you will never even get that chance.
And look at how fabulously they have handled all of this intrusion in to business. I will grant there will always be a need for some degree of regulation but somehow, it always manages to go too far. Become too overreaching. And cost far too much to manage. And too big to manage effectively.
The Truth

London, UK

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#6
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Remember that Smart Liberal is the biggest liar Topix has ever seen, and that he at various times claims to be a member of the 1% and supports only big business and the very rich and would just as soon the rest of us die off.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

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#7
Oct 16, 2013
 

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The Truth wrote:
Remember that Smart Liberal is the biggest liar Topix has ever seen
You just keep telling yourself that junior.
Arch on Larch

Detroit, MI

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#10
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Awful Truth wrote:
The Freak Show from Seattle, gets to abuse strangers again...sweet!
Sure would be nice if you could keep it on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
goose

Chicago, IL

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#12
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Sure seems like there is a lot of sore loser right wing radicals out tonight.

Since: May 11

Burnsville, MN

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#13
Oct 16, 2013
 

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Seems to me Irish you are the one who doesn`t know what you are talking about.

My business of 7 years s doing just fine. I have no problem paying my taxes. Unlike you Iconsider it my duty as an american

I firmly believe in safty and enviromental regulations and have no problem filling out the proper paperwork.

Just for the record Bush 43 enacted more regulations then Obama and guess what, there have only been 2 presidents snce 1980 that have reduced deficit spending and neither one of them where republicans.
Here in the Real World

Minneapolis, MN

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#16
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Fair is Fair wrote:
This short is worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
More spam.
roadrunner

Saint Paul, MN

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#17
Oct 17, 2013
 

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IrishMN wrote:
<quoted text>
It is fascinating that you start your statement with “When I started my business…” Have you been in business for more than 5 years? That is the time line that I am discussing. The past 5 years.
When you started your business, didn’t you have a mountain of regulatory paperwork from the DOE, OSHA, and all of your local entities to “guide you” in your compliance with the myriad of government imposed regulations based on your SIC code and your location? You sure as hell did.
You say that nobody is taking your excess income. Well, then you obviously are not very successful. Are you paying less total taxes as a percentage of your income now than you were 10 years ago? Ever heard of the AMT? Does that apply to all taxpayers at an equitable rate? Didn’t Obama campaign on increasing taxes only on the top earners?
To quote Barack Hussein Obama:“We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I do think at a certain point you've made enough money…”
Everyone who has had a steady job for the past 10 years is paying a higher percentage of their total income in the form of taxes now.
And heaven forbid that you are successful. Then they specifically say they are going to target you and make you pay more. That is “taking your excess income”.
Now…what about the government’s takeover of the auto industry, banking, healthcare, home mortgage, pharmaceutical, insurance, agriculture, and on, and on, and on. You can not start a business in any of the above areas without the official Okie Dokie of the government prior to opening your doors. And in most instances, you will never even get that chance.
You are either a liar or are very naive. As a business owner, the government controls your every move – and it becomes more intrusive by the day.
Read the description again. That is the Obama Administration to a “T”.
You're still a complete idiot SL you and your party has fail once again to you should be tired of making an as out of yourself Obama will be one of the greatest pres.in u.s history and you bagger will be voted out of politics.
Beep-Beep Boom.right in your face again
mongoose

Minneapolis, MN

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#18
Oct 17, 2013
 

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just listen to these left wing bleeding heart liberals, here is the situation.

the have NOTS out number the HAVES. simple math, they want what the HAVES have worked hard to accomplish, for FREE.

it is called socialism 101
Here in the Real World

Minneapolis, MN

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#20
Oct 17, 2013
 

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mongoose wrote:
just listen to these left wing bleeding heart liberals, here is the situation.
the have NOTS out number the HAVES. simple math, they want what the HAVES have worked hard to accomplish, for FREE.
it is called socialism 101
Not all Democrats collect welfare, and many Republicans do, if you count Social Security, Medicare, any kind of government retirement including military, are a farmer, have been hit by a natural disaster, are a student, and so on and so on.

The gap between the haves and the have-nots is the widest it has been in over a century and growing every year. Taxes on the rich are a much lower percentage than they were in the 50's and 60's.

So to your point, if you collect a military pension, does that make YOU a socialist?

Since: Sep 08

Neon City Oh.

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#23
Oct 17, 2013
 

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IrishMN wrote:
OK, the title of this thread is inaccurate. It really should read: "The evolution of the American Economy". But then, who would read a thread by that name.
This is really for all my friends on the Left side of the aisle. I challenge you to read the following statement and honestly compare it to the state of the economy in the United States today.
----------
Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled
leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism.
Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely.
To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production.
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.ht...
----------
If you remove the word fascism, and replace it with the term Obama Administration, you will have the game plan of the current President.
I dare you to offer proof to the contrary.
Then under your twisted theory, the only acceptable solution would be anarchy.
Bad news bro, MadMax was not a documentary.

“I am always right.”

Since: Oct 09

Former MN Taxpayer

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#27
Oct 17, 2013
 

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Snake Dr wrote:
Seems to me Irish you are the one who doesn`t know what you are talking about.
My business of 7 years s doing just fine. I have no problem paying my taxes. Unlike you Iconsider it my duty as an american
I firmly believe in safty and enviromental regulations and have no problem filling out the proper paperwork.
Seriously? This is your response? Go back and read the very first post in this thread. It states that Obama’s game plan for the United States is “economic fascism”. You have not refuted that argument one iota.
Snake Dr wrote:
Just for the record Bush 43 enacted more regulations then Obama and guess what, there have only been 2 presidents snce 1980 that have reduced deficit spending and neither one of them where republicans.
Are you claiming you are a fan of GWB? I never was, and never will be. But I can understand how someone who is not schooled in economics would like Bush. He was a nice guy and had a good heart. Too bad he was such a poor President.

With respect to your goofy claim regarding deficits…you do realize that spending is controlled by the House of Representatives, don’t you?

Bill Clinton has a run of budget surpluses thanks to a Republican controlled Congress. And Jimmy Carter (yeah, there’s a President you can cheer for) had a very small surplus. Now, what’s your point about the two Presidents?

http://home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.html

OK, back to the topic and stay on the subject this time. Economic Fascism and Obama. They are one and the same.

Lastly, congrats to you on surviving 7 years in a very tough economy. When you reach 25 years owning your business, come back and tell me how your views about government intrusion, obstructive regulations, and crony capitalism have changed since you started your empire.
LIbEralS

Minneapolis, MN

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#33
Oct 18, 2013
 

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WDRussell wrote:
<quoted text>
Then under your twisted theory, the only acceptable solution would be anarchy.
Bad news bro, MadMax was not a documentary.
How about less government intrusion. Look at all of it right now. How has it helped? There needs to be a balance between protecting citizens and letting the free market work. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

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#35
Oct 18, 2013
 

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stupid americans wrote:
<quoted text>
I would argue that it's almost too late to change the beliefs that government can solve all our problems.
People are just "too human", Nietsche.
I really hope you are wrong about that. But I can see why you would think so. Even those of us who have paid in to SS all of our lives, are now being derided as hypocrites for expecting to get that money back. Accused of being socialists and dependent on the government just like serial welfare recipients. It's a somewhat well played tactic. Something to do with a guy named Alinsky I believe.

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