Comments
41 - 60 of 109 Comments Last updated Dec 21, 2012
Load of Crap

Minneapolis, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#47
Dec 13, 2012
 
What a load of crap. All people in the world should have the right to band together in a union to work for improved pay, benefits, working conditions and job security.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#48
Dec 13, 2012
 
"There are no businesses without a union that pay higher or better wages and benefits than similar businesses with a union."

Yes Big Al...Yes there are.

"Businessmen are not altruistic. The profit motive is their guiding principle. Labor is a cost and costs must be minimized in order to maximize profits."

This is basically true. Though some are more altruistic than others, businesses, especially small businesses, so not exist solely to enhance the lives of their help. Nor should they be.

"Individual workers have no bargaining power only when workers bargain collectively can they negotiate on a level playing field."

Also untrue. And the collective bargaining power of unions, because of their refusal to back down or negotiate, has cost many many jobs for people. The Hostess debacle is a perfect example. About 5000 people ruined things for the other 13,000 workers.

Workers cannot work without businesses and businesses cannot operate without workers.

This is very very true. The Yin and Yang of it all if you will.
But never forget, in the very near future this will no longer be true because of automation. Because let's face it, with automation, a business can (and will) indeed, operate without workers.

The all powerful and beneficent labor unions had best look toward that future and start retraining their members today. I suggest robotics and computer sciences.

Since: Sep 11

Rogers, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#50
Dec 13, 2012
 
Load of Crap wrote:
What a load of crap. All people in the world should have the right to band together in a union to work for improved pay, benefits, working conditions and job security.
I agree. And the employers, especially the public sector, should have the right to hire whomever they choose, union or otherwise.

Now about those rights you speak of. There is no such thing as an inherent right to work or to own a business. Those rights are created and granted by the culture and society you are born in to. Usually managed by whatever form of government is in power at the time.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#51
Dec 13, 2012
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope you didn’t sign your letter to Santa “Neither of the Above”. You might get on the naughty list for fibbing.
I really don't care if you believe or not, most people who swallow the union pill don't know any better because they have never experience any think else. Drive to Des Moine and visit the big city Big Al!!
Bridgework

Lincoln, NE

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#52
Dec 13, 2012
 
Load of Crap wrote:
What a load of crap. All people in the world should have the right to band together in a union to work for improved pay, benefits, working conditions and job security.
You realize that this is not about the right to join a union, but about being forced to join the union?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#53
Dec 13, 2012
 
Niether of the Above wrote:
<quoted text>I really don't care if you believe or not, most people who swallow the union pill don't know any better because they have never experience any think else. Drive to Des Moine and visit the big city Big Al!!
Wealthy business interests and their bought and paid for politicians aren’t trying to bust unions because they want workers to get better wages and benefits!

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#55
Dec 13, 2012
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Wealthy business interests and their bought and paid for politicians aren’t trying to bust unions because they want workers to get better wages and benefits!
Al,

Let's say you own a business. I know, that is a big stretch because you need to have a brain and some balls to do such a thing, but let's pretend, OK?

You have the choice: Do you hire everyone in your business at a "livable wage" of $15 or more per hour even though some are only worth $8 per hour to you in value?

If you hire everyone at $15 per hour or more, do you tell your children that they need to put water on their cereal this week because you can't afford milk due to paying the livable wage to those that are not worth that much to your company?

This is a serious question that many business owners face. I can not tell you how many times my partners and I have put money back into our businesses in order to keep people on the payroll rather than laying them off. We are not unique in how we run our business. All business owners face the same questions in tough times.

And as a follow-up to the above, are you a better person if you pay everyone a “livable wage” and employ 30% fewer people since that is all you can afford? Or are you helping society if you end up going belly up because you over paid your employees and the business shuts down causing everyone to lose their jobs?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#57
Dec 13, 2012
 
Smart Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
Al,
Let's say you own a business. I know, that is a big stretch because you need to have a brain and some balls to do such a thing, but let's pretend, OK?
You have the choice: Do you hire everyone in your business at a "livable wage" of $15 or more per hour even though some are only worth $8 per hour to you in value?
If you hire everyone at $15 per hour or more, do you tell your children that they need to put water on their cereal this week because you can't afford milk due to paying the livable wage to those that are not worth that much to your company?
This is a serious question that many business owners face. I can not tell you how many times my partners and I have put money back into our businesses in order to keep people on the payroll rather than laying them off. We are not unique in how we run our business. All business owners face the same questions in tough times.
And as a follow-up to the above, are you a better person if you pay everyone a “livable wage” and employ 30% fewer people since that is all you can afford? Or are you helping society if you end up going belly up because you over paid your employees and the business shuts down causing everyone to lose their jobs?
So what you’re saying is that without unions all businesses would be paying their employees a fair wage and that unions are preventing businesses from doing that?
DSM Local

Ankeny, IA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#59
Dec 13, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Wealthy business interests and their bought and paid for politicians aren’t trying to bust unions because they want workers to get better wages and benefits!
The Kraft Foods plant that produces the nation's entire supply of refrigerated ready-to-eat Jell-O gelatin and Jell-O pudding snacks is located in Mason City, IA.

The plant is layed off 40-50 people december of last year, the average wage is 28K a year; that's about $14.6 per hour...The workers weren't unionized & The cuts were way overdue and two plants have closed but unlike union mugged companies 28K isn't too bad like the pensions loving hostess unions. In other words even when cuts come they aren't as bad, for example it's one thing to lay off and another to completely shut down when you have to deal with a godless union.

So, would you have preffered the Mason City plant to have been unionized and now closed or for them to have been able to lay a few people off and stay open?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#60
Dec 13, 2012
 
DSM Local wrote:
<quoted text>
The Kraft Foods plant that produces the nation's entire supply of refrigerated ready-to-eat Jell-O gelatin and Jell-O pudding snacks is located in Mason City, IA.
The plant is layed off 40-50 people december of last year, the average wage is 28K a year; that's about $14.6 per hour...The workers weren't unionized & The cuts were way overdue and two plants have closed but unlike union mugged companies 28K isn't too bad like the pensions loving hostess unions. In other words even when cuts come they aren't as bad, for example it's one thing to lay off and another to completely shut down when you have to deal with a godless union.
So, would you have preffered the Mason City plant to have been unionized and now closed or for them to have been able to lay a few people off and stay open?
Well I hate to mention this but I don’t live in Mason City Iowa. Topix says that for some reason but it’s not correct. I’ve lived in Minnesota all my life.
non-starter

Burnsville, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#61
Dec 13, 2012
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I hate to mention this but I don’t live in Mason City Iowa. Topix says that for some reason but it’s not correct. I’ve lived in Minnesota all my life.
Last name begin with an "S"?

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#62
Dec 13, 2012
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you’re saying is that without unions all businesses would be paying their employees a fair wage and that unions are preventing businesses from doing that?
I said nothing of the sorts.

I asked you some serious questions on how you would handle the challenges a business owner faces.

Either you honestly answer those questions or you don't.

I don't think you have the brains or the balls to honestly answer the questions that were asked. Which means you don't have the brains or the balls to own a business that employes other people.

Life ain't easy on either side of the equation, my friend.
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#64
Dec 13, 2012
 
Smart Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I said nothing of the sorts.
I asked you some serious questions on how you would handle the challenges a business owner faces.
Either you honestly answer those questions or you don't.
I don't think you have the brains or the balls to honestly answer the questions that were asked. Which means you don't have the brains or the balls to own a business that employes other people.
Life ain't easy on either side of the equation, my friend.
Absolutely correct! Both sides need each other. Workers have problems to deal with and employers have problems to deal with. The continued profitable operation of the business benefits both. That’s why each side needs to bring its needs to the bargaining and negotiate a solution equitable to both sides. And let me ask you again – do you mean to suggest that employers always deal with their employees fairly?
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#65
Dec 13, 2012
 
non-starter wrote:
<quoted text>Last name begin with an "S"?
No.

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#66
Dec 13, 2012
 
Big Al wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely correct! Both sides need each other. Workers have problems to deal with and employers have problems to deal with. The continued profitable operation of the business benefits both. That’s why each side needs to bring its needs to the bargaining and negotiate a solution equitable to both sides. And let me ask you again – do you mean to suggest that employers always deal with their employees fairly?
You still have not answered any of my questions to you. Stay on point there, Al.
Amused Slew

Seattle, WA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#68
Dec 13, 2012
 
Smart Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
I said nothing of the sorts.
I asked you some serious questions on how you would handle the challenges a business owner faces.
Either you honestly answer those questions or you don't.
I don't think you have the brains or the balls to honestly answer the questions that were asked. Which means you don't have the brains or the balls to own a business that employes other people.
Life ain't easy on either side of the equation, my friend.
You asked questions... big deal, find the Hertz dumb*ss ...
Big Al

Hibbing, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#69
Dec 14, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

cantmakeitup wrote:
"There are no businesses without a union that pay higher or better wages and benefits than similar businesses with a union."
Yes Big Al...Yes there are.
I’ve never seen one.
cantmakeitup wrote:
"Businessmen are not altruistic. The profit motive is their guiding principle. Labor is a cost and costs must be minimized in order to maximize profits."
This is basically true. Though some are more altruistic than others, businesses, especially small businesses, so not exist solely to enhance the lives of their help. Nor should they be.
No business can exist without making a profit. The profit motive is central to all business.
cantmakeitup wrote:
"Individual workers have no bargaining power only when workers bargain collectively can they negotiate on a level playing field."
Also untrue. And the collective bargaining power of unions, because of their refusal to back down or negotiate, has cost many many jobs for people. The Hostess debacle is a perfect example. About 5000 people ruined things for the other 13,000 workers.
Workers cannot work without businesses and businesses cannot operate without workers..
In a very small business an individual employee can have bargaining power. In larger businesses employees are merely numbers and wages and benefits are merely business costs not the means by which workers support themselves and their families. Any individual employee can be replaced without having the business skip a beat. No individual employee has any bargaining power in a larger business.
cantmakeitup wrote:
This is very very true. The Yin and Yang of it all if you will.
But never forget, in the very near future this will no longer be true because of automation. Because let's face it, with automation, a business can (and will) indeed, operate without workers.
…and when there are no more workers who are businesses going to sell their products and services to?
cantmakeitup wrote:
The all powerful and beneficent labor unions had best look toward that future and start retraining their members today. I suggest robotics and computer sciences.
Unions brought, safety, the 40-hour week, the 8-hour day and numerous other benefits to workers that “the more altruistic” employers never thought of.
Amused Slew

Seattle, WA

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#71
Dec 14, 2012
 
Sofa King Cool wrote:
He Big Al, how much do you weigh? I'll you're pushin' 350.
Obesity in unions is almost 95%.
Poor liar, you try and try, but you're a moron....

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#72
Dec 14, 2012
 
Gee Al, you came back and responded to cant, but avoided my questions.

Let me throw another one into the mix. Then you can respond to all of the questions at one time, ok?

You said: "Both sides need each other. Workers have problems to deal with and employers have problems to deal with. The continued profitable operation of the business benefits both. That’s why each side needs to bring its needs to the bargaining and negotiate a solution equitable to both sides."

That works in the private sector, but does not work in the public sector since "management" in the public sector has no skin in the game. Management here would be the elected representatives who get truckloads of money and blocks of votes from union members in exchange for support on union issues.

If “management”(elected officials) over spend the company (government) does not go out of business They just raise taxes on the citizens to get more money.

Thus, the bargaining process in the public sector is tainted and an unfair advantage is held by the unions.

This is just one of the reasons public sector unions need to be banned in this country. Would you agree on that point?
Consistent

Grantsburg, WI

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#73
Dec 14, 2012
 
Amused Slew wrote:
<quoted text>Poor liar, you try and try, but you're a moron....
Sociopath,

Every time you post your ignorance/stupidity/idiocy/tal king points/cut-paste/ and especially your abuses of others because Uncle Daddy did not treat you right and your Mommy, his Sister, "watched" I will post the awful truths about you that you have revealed for the past year and a half.

When you come on here like the Virus you are and Destroy the Topix of the Threads in order to make it "all about you", as you masturbate to the Puny Little Power you FEEL as you pick on the Grown-ups, and "Project" your hurt from Uncle Daddy onto strangers that simply want to enjoy conversations about Current Events.....I WILL kick you in your Fat Gut with whatever verbiage I can muster in my contempt for your existence!

Put out the Drunk Con Shaat, and the Welfare Shaat, and attempt put downs about my Family (Living and Dead) all you want.....

Until the day you Go to the Light, are incarcerated for the Abuses you have told us about Little BOI's and what you like to do to them, or leave this place on Topix where you work out your Sexuality Issues, I WILL biotch slap you with your own psychotic revelations that you put out here.

Now, don't you have a Few Million Dollars to go and trade on the NYSE from your DOJO in the Sky, before you work on that MMA Body you have going?

How do you find time to grace us here with your abuses?

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

10 Users are viewing the Minneapolis Forum right now

Search the Minneapolis Forum:
Title Updated Last By Comments
Woman's head stepped on by Rand Paul supporters (Oct '10) 9 min move on 26,193
Drop one word....add one word game 48 min LOL 67
michele REFUSE to have sex with marcus 55 min wearing the pants 1
Vikings training camp 1 hr Space ace 11
African History Excluding Egypt 3 hr Seattle Slime 9
Obama administration on verge of collapse 3 hr Seattle Slime 53
Franken REFUSES to debate at the State Fair 5 hr Sangelia 15
•••
•••
•••
•••

Minneapolis Jobs

•••
Enter and win $5000
•••
•••

Minneapolis People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Minneapolis News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Minneapolis
•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••