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41 - 60 of 96 Comments Last updated Dec 4, 2013
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#52
Nov 25, 2013
 

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MNDOT Engineer wrote:
The government cannot protect everyone from all potential hazards on public roads, especially easily avoidable ones such as the ramp in question. If the driver had been following the law, those children would all be anticipating a happy Thanksgiving. Because of the driver's actions, they will not be doing so.
I completely agree. No matter how "safe" we try to engineer and build our roads and highways,*somebody* will find a way to either kill themselves and/or somebody else. Weather conditions, congestion, careless/reckless driving habits from some drivers are things that can't be controlled. I can't believe that so many drivers and passengers are still getting killed because they REFUSE to wear a seat belt these days.

Nobody even mentions the FACT that this driver also put all of the RESCUERS at RISK, because of her actions. Diving into cold, murky, muddy water, when it's dark has to be very difficult, no matter how brave or skilled or experienced the rescuer is, not to mention dangerous.

If the roads were snow covered or icy, I could *maybe* understand how that car ended up in the water, but on that day, at that time,
at that location, they were NOT. Some keep trying to say that it was snowing at the time. Not likely, when the weather in the Twin Cities showed a temperature of about 37 degrees F, and the ground was NOT frozen from previous non-subfreezing temperatures.

As a driver, you are ultimately responsible for yourself, your passengers, and OTHERS on the road. It is not a responsibility that should be taken lightly. When an inexperienced driver operates a car, with no valid license or insurance, and people die as a result, there should be a substantial penalty. That intersection and ramp is not a "highway speed" area. I went down there myself and got a pretty good look at the "accident" scene.
I noticed all of the signs, including the speed limit on Hwy 7, saw no skid marks from the car that plunged into the water, the ramp was *TWO* marked lanes wide, and the pavement was in good condition (no noticable cracks or potholes). This was a completely avoidable "accident". It wasn't even a 90 degree right turn to get on that ramp, more like 60-70 degrees.

The "black box" in the car will tell investigators a LOT, and they don't lie, and since the car was 16 years old, I doubt that it handled like a ZR1 Corvette.

Think of all of the costs involved. The funerals, the investigation, the hospital care of the three who survived, etc.
I hear it costs about $10,000 a for ONE person to stay in an ICU for ONE day. That may be a *low* figure. This was a very COSTLY "accident", and I'm not just talking about dollars here, but the hospital bill for the 3 kids who survived will easily top $100,000.
Who pays for that, especially with no auto insurance on the car?

If you get hit by a bolt of lightning, that is an accident, unless you are standing in a thunderstorm holding a long, steel rod. If you suddenly have a heart attack, without warning, while driving on an interstate, that is an accident. If you suddenly drive over a road covered with nails, and all your tires blow out, and you crash, that is an accident. If a deer jumps in front of your car at night and you hit it, that is an accident. Big difference between the examples I've listed and what happened HERE.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#53
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
Generally speaking lakes do NOT drop off like a manmade murkey holding pond.
If there is a lake with a quick dropoff with a road aimed at it in most cases there will be a guard rail to prevent a vehicle from straying into the water.
This holding pond has NOTHING between it and the roadway, not so much as a curbing or tree. Speed limit 45, exit ramp with NO reduced speed limit. NO curved road signs warning of the bend in the ramp, NO arrows indicating a curve in the road, NOTHING.
It only makes SENSE that when entering an entrance ramp to a highway, that you SLOW DOWN, especially in an urban area. Apparently, she didn't slow down, for reasons we are yet to find out. Since she didn't have a VALID driver's license, and since she has YET to make a public statement, the most obvious conclusion to reach is that she was driving too fast, she wasn't paying enough attention to the task at hand, and by the time she realized that she was out of control, it was too late to recover from her mistake. This was not a long, sweeping curve, where you could see 200 yards ahead of you easily, a curve that would let you see what potential hazards might be far ahead. This "accident" has ALL of the characteristics of an inexperienced driver, if not a reckless one, which explains why she had a "learner's permit" instead of a genuine driver's license.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#54
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
Generally speaking lakes do NOT drop off like a manmade murkey holding pond.
If there is a lake with a quick dropoff with a road aimed at it in most cases there will be a guard rail to prevent a vehicle from straying into the water.

Prove it, "Hey".

You CAN'T.

This holding pond has NOTHING between it and the roadway, not so much as a curbing or tree. Speed limit 45, exit ramp with NO reduced speed limit. NO curved road signs warning of the bend in the ramp, NO arrows indicating a curve in the road, NOTHING.
Yes, you are right, there are no "barriers" where this "accident" occurred. But what if the driver was going 100 mph and hit a "cable barrier", and STILL blew through or flipped through it? Would you STILL fault MNDOT for not putting up a strong enough barrier to prevent a car from going into the "drink"??

Every DAY, I read about STUPID STUFF that human beings manage to do to get themselves or somebody else killed, and it just boggles my mind. How about some "COMMON SENSE" for a CHANGE?
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#57
Nov 25, 2013
 
IF drivers are responsible for all accidents and signs arn't warrented or any road condition, why are there any signs at all.

I.E, the ramp from SB 694 to WB 94 in Woodbury has had a large number of semi rollovers. So MnDOT has installed LARGE warning signs for semi drivers to prevent more rollovers, FACT!

IF barriers arn't usefull and drivers are responsible for their actions, WHY are there ANY BARRIERS???

This killing ramp has a history of, according to many locals, cars ending up in the water, this IS NOT the first. MnDOT needs to do SOMETHING for Christ's sake!!

Oh the COST of this accident, ya when all the costs are added up: first responders, equipment usage, overtime for accident reconstruction etc, bury 2 kids (so far), hospitalize 3 kids, pay off the settlement for the deaths/injuries/moms damages. All the costs WILL total well over a MILLION DOLLARS, right.

How much would guard rails and cable barriers cost?

BTW, I have seen how MnDOT prioritizes saftey improvements. On 94 between Elk River and Monticello there was a tragic wreck where a young lady went to sleep and drove off the road RIP and ended up dieing. Shortly after the wreck MnDOT installed rumble strips on the shoulder of that section of 94, you know to wake up drivers.

In talking to a friend up north about that isolated wreck she said the woman that fell asleep and died was the daughter of a MnDOT engineer. That's why the rumble strip was installed.

So you see if a MnDOT's relative is killed all of a sudden a drivers mistake is grounds for a rumble strip installation. If however some outsider is killed it's her fault.

Just so you understand how MnDOT works.

I just know there will be additional "DAMAGE CONTROL" postings out here but ya know this ramp IS a killer. MnDOT should take measures to prevent additional killing wrecks NOW!!!

As a citizen I would fix it but for the fact that the Government controls the killer ramp and like it just the way it is.

There are many cheap quick fixes that would prevent additional fatal wrecks. MnDOT needs to think about from this perspective: the next fatal wreck COULD be one of YOUR relatives. IT COULD!!!
hope they had car seats

Minneapolis, MN

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#58
Nov 25, 2013
 

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question, what was a 23 yr old doing driving kids to ( school )@ 6:00 in the morning ? lets check her VALID drivers ID - lets check her valid proof of insurance and all the seat belt and car seats in the auto.

look at the names, can you say what ?

__________
MN enforce your liberal laws on this one !
Hey wrote:
You see all these new holding pond along freeways. You know they are constructed right where cars end up when they slip off the ramp.
Well this morning a car with 4 kids and one adult ended up in one of the 10' deep water death traps designed and built by none other than MnDOT!!
And we the taxpayers have to pay for this Government Monopoly that traps us and kills us.
At least they could constuct barriers so vehicles wouldn't end up in 10' of ice cold water in the dark.
I pray the 5 people made it out alive from the event. Of course IF they were strapped in to the Government mandated car seats do you think the one adult was able to get 4 kids out and out of the water?
Stay tuned for the outcome.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#59
Nov 25, 2013
 
hope they had car seats wrote:
question, what was a 23 yr old doing driving kids to ( school )@ 6:00 in the morning ? lets check her VALID drivers ID - lets check her valid proof of insurance and all the seat belt and car seats in the auto.
look at the names, can you say what ?
__________
MN enforce your liberal laws on this one !
<quoted text>
IF the kids had all been strapped in to Government mandated car seats they would all be dead today.

They would be dead because the water rescue responders wore Government mandated suits that prevents them from diving under water. They could use only their feet to retrieve the kids. So what's the likelyhood of them being able to unlatch the seatbelts with their feet?

It's a free country people can drive whenever whereever they want. And yes MILLIONS drive without insurance, licenses, drunk, high on drugs, crimminals etc. Maybe we need ObamaCarInsurance?
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#60
Nov 25, 2013
 
digger wrote:
<quoted text>
You might want to check out this article:
detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11/23/driver-killed...
A driver went over a curb, through a chain-link fence, through some trees, and plunged into a lake, where he died. His car was found in 15 feet of water only 60 feet from shore. They do NOT say that this was a "holding pond".
Terry Lake is 35 feet deep and below 20 feet the rescuers couldn't see their hands because of murkey water.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#61
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Are all you folk stupid or am I smart?
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#63
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
IF drivers are responsible for all accidents and signs arn't warrented or any road condition, why are there any signs at all.
I.E, the ramp from SB 694 to WB 94 in Woodbury has had a large number of semi rollovers. So MnDOT has installed LARGE warning signs for semi drivers to prevent more rollovers, FACT!
IF barriers arn't usefull and drivers are responsible for their actions, WHY are there ANY BARRIERS???
This killing ramp has a history of, according to many locals, cars ending up in the water, this IS NOT the first. MnDOT needs to do SOMETHING for Christ's sake!!
Oh the COST of this accident, ya when all the costs are added up: first responders, equipment usage, overtime for accident reconstruction etc, bury 2 kids (so far), hospitalize 3 kids, pay off the settlement for the deaths/injuries/moms damages. All the costs WILL total well over a MILLION DOLLARS, right.
How much would guard rails and cable barriers cost?
BTW, I have seen how MnDOT prioritizes saftey improvements. On 94 between Elk River and Monticello there was a tragic wreck where a young lady went to sleep and drove off the road RIP and ended up dieing. Shortly after the wreck MnDOT installed rumble strips on the shoulder of that section of 94, you know to wake up drivers.
In talking to a friend up north about that isolated wreck she said the woman that fell asleep and died was the daughter of a MnDOT engineer. That's why the rumble strip was installed.
So you see if a MnDOT's relative is killed all of a sudden a drivers mistake is grounds for a rumble strip installation. If however some outsider is killed it's her fault.
Just so you understand how MnDOT works.
I just know there will be additional "DAMAGE CONTROL" postings out here but ya know this ramp IS a killer. MnDOT should take measures to prevent additional killing wrecks NOW!!!
As a citizen I would fix it but for the fact that the Government controls the killer ramp and like it just the way it is.
There are many cheap quick fixes that would prevent additional fatal wrecks. MnDOT needs to think about from this perspective: the next fatal wreck COULD be one of YOUR relatives. IT COULD!!!
Ah, hate to burst your bubble, but I-94 does NOT go through Elk River. In fact, it doesn't even come CLOSE. Your spelling could use a "tune up" too, if you know what I mean.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#64
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
Terry Lake is 35 feet deep and below 20 feet the rescuers couldn't see their hands because of murkey water.
Are you saying that you have actually been to Terry Lake, and maybe even swam in it?
digger

Minneapolis, MN

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#65
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
Are all you folk stupid or am I smart?
Are you really sure that you want me to answer your question *honestly*??
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#66
Nov 25, 2013
 

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digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, hate to burst your bubble, but I-94 does NOT go through Elk River. In fact, it doesn't even come CLOSE. Your spelling could use a "tune up" too, if you know what I mean.
Here's a smart response, you know the Elk River exit on 94.

How many freeways go through an outstate town?
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#67
Nov 25, 2013
 

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digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying that you have actually been to Terry Lake, and maybe even swam in it?
Here's a smart response, if you read the reports on the Terry Lake crash it says it's 35 feet deep AND divers couldn't see their hands below 20 feet.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#68
Nov 25, 2013
 

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digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you really sure that you want me to answer your question *honestly*??
You arn't smart enough to answer it at all.

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

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#69
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
IF drivers are responsible for all accidents and signs arn't warrented or any road condition, why are there any signs at all.
BTW, I have seen how MnDOT prioritizes saftey improvements. On 94 between Elk River and Monticello there was a tragic wreck where a young lady went to sleep and drove off the road RIP and ended up dieing. Shortly after the wreck MnDOT installed rumble strips on the shoulder of that section of 94, you know to wake up drivers.
The only highways that go thru Elk River are Hwy 10, Hwy 169, & State Highway 101.
.
Interstate 94 stays on the south/west side of the Mississippi River for most of the path of it thru Minnesota. Only time it crosses the river to the north/east side is at the city limits between Minneapolis and St Paul.
.
That is the same side of the river for the City of Monticello. While the City of Elk River is on the OTHER side of the river.
.
Try to GoogleEarth the interstate. Better yet, drive it to see what I am talking about.
.
I have driven along both 94 as well as along Hwy 10 in the past in order to go visit my relatives in ND. Hwy 10 til Big Lake then Hwy 25 from that to Monticello.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#70
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
The only highways that go thru Elk River are Hwy 10, Hwy 169, & State Highway 101.
.
Interstate 94 stays on the south/west side of the Mississippi River for most of the path of it thru Minnesota. Only time it crosses the river to the north/east side is at the city limits between Minneapolis and St Paul.
.
That is the same side of the river for the City of Monticello. While the City of Elk River is on the OTHER side of the river.
.
Try to GoogleEarth the interstate. Better yet, drive it to see what I am talking about.
.
I have driven along both 94 as well as along Hwy 10 in the past in order to go visit my relatives in ND. Hwy 10 til Big Lake then Hwy 25 from that to Monticello.
Having commuted on 94 for many years the exit to Elk River says just that.

Point is between that exit and Monticello is where the accident happened where a driver went to sleep and was killed after driving off the road. Following the wreck MnDOT installed rumble strips on the shoulder of 94 and I then found out the woman driver was related to a MnDOT employee and that is why the rumble strips were installed. A stupid driver is a stupid driver and everyone makes mistakes.

MnDOT must respond to dangerous intersections by fixing them.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#72
Nov 25, 2013
 

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The intersection in this discussion has a long standing reputation of cars ending up in the holding pond.

It's MnDOTs responsibility to reduce known risks by installing barriers so cars don't end up in water KILLING 2 little kids and injuring 3 others, RIP.

It's worthy of note the cable barriers MnDOT installed at 694 and 35E have never been hit by vehicles. Hmmmmm, prioritization failure.

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

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#73
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
Having commuted on 94 for many years the exit to Elk River says just that.
Point is between that exit and Monticello is where the accident happened where a driver went to sleep and was killed after driving off the road. Following the wreck MnDOT installed rumble strips on the shoulder of 94 and I then found out the woman driver was related to a MnDOT employee and that is why the rumble strips were installed. A stupid driver is a stupid driver and everyone makes mistakes.
MnDOT must respond to dangerous intersections by fixing them.
If you were to look at a map. You would find that you are mistaking the City of Rogers for Elk River.
.
Elk River lies about 6.5 miles NORTH of I 94 on Hwy 101. and just to the south of Elk River is the city of Otsego.
Hey

Saint Paul, MN

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#74
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Sangelia wrote:
<quoted text>
If you were to look at a map. You would find that you are mistaking the City of Rogers for Elk River.
.
Elk River lies about 6.5 miles NORTH of I 94 on Hwy 101. and just to the south of Elk River is the city of Otsego.
The Elk River/Rogers exit off 94 AKA 101/81.

Why are you confused?

Since: Jul 10

Minneapolis, MN

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#76
Nov 25, 2013
 

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Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
The Elk River/Rogers exit off 94 AKA 101/81.
Why are you confused?
I'm not the one confused. Remember I driven on both I 94 AND Hwy 10. So I know where both cities are.
.
Plus, I dare you to look at a map and see that you are the one confused on where Elk River is. As well as to do the math on how far it is away from I 94. It is in Sherburne County, not Hennepin County like you think it is.

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