Man sues lab over accuracy of alcohol test

Full story: TwinCities.com

When convicted drunken driver John Gerard Miller flunked a court-ordered test that showed he'd been drinking while on probation, he swore he hadn't touched a drop.
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61 - 79 of 79 Comments Last updated Jan 30, 2013
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MPLS

Minneapolis, MN

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#67
Jan 20, 2011
 
Lab Peep wrote:
Actually, the title of this article is wrong. The accuracy of the test is not in question. I work in a lab and deal with this type of test daily. It's the interpretation of the results that can be inaccurate. This lab (unlike others that also do this test) misrepresents what the level of EtG or EtS means. The two controlled studies of alcohol-based sanitizer use (which has to be very frequent use) show that indeed you can get EtG and/or EtS, but at very low levels. This CA lab was neglectful in their misleading interpretation of the levels they accurately measure. There has to be some level of benefit of the doubt. Also, EtG (and not EtS) can be degraded or created in certain circumstances in the sample. EtS is a great marker with accurate interpretation, as is EtG in combination with glucose and bacteria testing.
I worked with a guy with said ankle bracelet this summer-we were spraying Zinzzer paint in confined attic one day, he got a call after he was home that night telling him he was over .20 that day and he never had a drink. They didn't believe him so he also got a call from parole officer. They didn't do anything so someone knows they're faulty.

Since: Jan 09

United States of America

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#68
Jan 20, 2011
 
Figure he's even for when he was drunk and didn't get caught.
small town

Morris, MN

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#69
Jan 20, 2011
 
Seriously...How much hand sanitizer would you have to use to have it show up on a test like this? That seems like a ridiculous cop-out excuse.
gwisahoax

Shakopee, MN

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#70
Jan 20, 2011
 
Lab Peep wrote:
Actually, the title of this article is wrong. The accuracy of the test is not in question. I work in a lab and deal with this type of test daily. It's the interpretation of the results that can be inaccurate. This lab (unlike others that also do this test) misrepresents what the level of EtG or EtS means. The two controlled studies of alcohol-based sanitizer use (which has to be very frequent use) show that indeed you can get EtG and/or EtS, but at very low levels. This CA lab was neglectful in their misleading interpretation of the levels they accurately measure. There has to be some level of benefit of the doubt. Also, EtG (and not EtS) can be degraded or created in certain circumstances in the sample. EtS is a great marker with accurate interpretation, as is EtG in combination with glucose and bacteria testing.
I agree with you 1,000%

It sounds to me like the test performed exactly as it was designed to. A slightly flawed design, but that isn't the fault of the lab.
TMZ atguest_net

Mountain View, CA

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#71
Jan 20, 2011
 
It was interesting how I found this but none the less...
I can only say this....
The paint thinner sounds possible... 3 days later?
Those vapors are enough for a sober person to get dizzy with-in minutes.... so after say 20 plus minutes?
Hand sanitizer? how much is truly absorbed through the skin because I used this stuff for some time and took several different tests. In fact... one career move I did I actually had one beer the night of a test and still never noted being positive.
Myth Busters proved the poppy seed dilemna... i concur likewise! Even while using hand sanitizer. By the way, a big warning, that sanitizer stuff will leave a real bad "mit" on the palm of your hand after extended use!
???
This lab has no results of either of these culprit situations by now? The pharmaceutical companies happily obliged quite a few of my cells some years back after a doctor would not listen to me either and I would be willing to offer a couple just to find the true math behind this.
Why? 80% of road deaths in Wisconsin have some rather interesting attributes! And a few good persons spared me much more.
Read the numbers and check the results yourselves! Dedicate a sober driver!
! 0.0 !
please

Plymouth, MN

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#72
Jan 20, 2011
 
oh please this guy is a huge drunken liar. He will say anything to not go back to jail. Throw the book at the drunk!!
babybluebiker

Saint Paul, MN

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#73
Jan 20, 2011
 
Lemon drops skew the test as well!!!
No Sympathy

Grand Forks, ND

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#74
Jan 21, 2011
 

Judged:

4

3

3

I do know this man, and he is an alcoholic. He drank this past Christmas and was so intoxicated it scared his children AND his parents. He was also drunk AT the hospital while his father was in ICU, as well as one of his DUI arrests he had one of his younger children with him. He needs rehab and/or incarceration. He does not learn and is digging himself a giant hole with this lawsuit. His family enables him and his ex-wife has tried to get him help. His oldest son wants nothing to do with him.
Don't "poor john" this man. he needs help. but minnesota tax payers should not have to pay for it.
Toxicologist

Fort Pierce, FL

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#75
Jan 25, 2011
 
EtG and EtS are screening ("presumptive") tests only, and should have been followed up by a blood or breath test for confirmation. The screening tests are very good at detecting residual metabolites from ethyl alcohol (ethanol) consumption, but they can't identify the source of ethyl alcohol, which could be innocent (e.g., hand sanitizers, etc.) Breath and blood testing is specific for ethyl alcohol and finding significant amounts still in the blood or breath (as opposed to markers for trace amounts of metabolites) would be porrf positive of recent alcoholic beverage consumption. To the author: alcohol doesn't "contain" ethanol - ethanol IS one type of alcohol. Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) is the kind of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages, as opposed to isopropanol (isopropyl alcohol) which is rubbing alcohol, or methanol (methyl alcohol), which is wood alcohol. So EtG and EtS are metabolites of beverage alcohol, not of something "in" the alcohol. If by "alcohol" you meant "an alcoholic beverage,' then you should say "alcoholic beverage," not "alcohol" because there are many types of alcohol, including ethanol and the others mentioned above.
Toxicologist

Fort Pierce, FL

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#76
Jan 25, 2011
 

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MPLS wrote:
<quoted text>
I worked with a guy with said ankle bracelet this summer-we were spraying Zinzzer paint in confined attic one day, he got a call after he was home that night telling him he was over .20 that day and he never had a drink. They didn't believe him so he also got a call from parole officer. They didn't do anything so someone knows they're faulty.
Any alcohol inhaled in whatever your friend was painting with would have fully cleared from his body within less than 20 minutes after exposure to fresh air. So unless your friend was tested within 20 minutes of leaving the attic, his .20 alcohol level result proves he was drinking that day or had some other kind of large alcohol exposure. Why they didn't charge him, I don't know, but the 0.20 was not produced by the painting he did (unless he was tested within minutes afterwards).
alex

UK

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#77
Jan 25, 2011
 
margo simpson wrote:
He has every reason to sue and I hope he wins. The test is faulty, there is room for error, therefore it cannot be held as accurate evidence against someone. I hope Mr. Miller gets one hell of a settlement.
Isn't compensation supposed to make up for the mistakes of the defendant rather than punish them? I may be wrong but it isn't the job of every tom dick and harry to decide when to pursue a case based entirely on personal whim
alex

UK

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#78
Jan 25, 2011
 
TMZ atguest_net wrote:
It was interesting how I found this but none the less...
I can only say this....
The paint thinner sounds possible... 3 days later?
Those vapors are enough for a sober person to get dizzy with-in minutes.... so after say 20 plus minutes?
Hand sanitizer? how much is truly absorbed through the skin because I used this stuff for some time and took several different tests. In fact... one career move I did I actually had one beer the night of a test and still never noted being positive.
Myth Busters proved the poppy seed dilemna... i concur likewise! Even while using hand sanitizer. By the way, a big warning, that sanitizer stuff will leave a real bad "mit" on the palm of your hand after extended use!
???
This lab has no results of either of these culprit situations by now? The pharmaceutical companies happily obliged quite a few of my cells some years back after a doctor would not listen to me either and I would be willing to offer a couple just to find the true math behind this.
Why? 80% of road deaths in Wisconsin have some rather interesting attributes! And a few good persons spared me much more.
Read the numbers and check the results yourselves! Dedicate a sober driver!
! 0.0 !
You speak against it as a lay man when 2 experts have agreed the test can be affected by exterior factors and in this case it was entirely plausible. If you read the article it explains the way the test world and explains that the test doesn't test for ethanol directly in your body but the components that need replacing after ethanol has been absorbed in your system.
up north man

Grand Forks, ND

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#79
Jul 24, 2011
 

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No Sympathy wrote:
I do know this man, and he is an alcoholic. He drank this past Christmas and was so intoxicated it scared his children AND his parents. He was also drunk AT the hospital while his father was in ICU, as well as one of his DUI arrests he had one of his younger children with him. He needs rehab and/or incarceration. He does not learn and is digging himself a giant hole with this lawsuit. His family enables him and his ex-wife has tried to get him help. His oldest son wants nothing to do with him.
Don't "poor john" this man. he needs help. but minnesota tax payers should not have to pay for it.
I also know this man that was arrested and not consuming any alcohol. He was convicted of a DUI in 2006 and has been sober since then.
The person that wrote this comment about the incident is attempting to slander John because he is married to John's ex-wife.
The writer of the comment is George Lyons who is a two time convicted felon for meth sales and for felony theft.
John's ex-wife who is married to has severe addiction and mental health problems.
It's funny how the son he refers to is living with John full time and wants nothing to do with the writer or his troubled mom.

Get the facts right George before you post lies!!
Nihau 2011

Norwalk, CT

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#80
Jan 22, 2012
 
This EtG test is lame. I've been trying to figure out why my tests are coming back positive, and apparently the smallest contact sets it off.

alcoholism.about.com/od/work/a/etg.htm
wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_is_alcohol_in_you...

Apparently its also important if you are drinking, to avoid ALL CONTACT with the stuff that sets it off (i.e. Alcohol-based deodorant, hand sanitizer) but also, according to one of these articles, things as innocuous as laundry detergent. One thing I have not seen listed, which is a biggie, I believe, is GASOLINE, as gasoline today contains 10% ETHANOL. So by handling it you absorb it through your skin and by breathing the fumes you are inadvertently inhaling alcohol vapor. I don't know if anyone remembers the Vaporizers that were popular at nightclubs a few years back, but its the same thing. Sucking in the fumes. So if you're trying to lower your levels, you need to avoid things that will dose you with alcohol and drag out the process. Drink a lot of water, start exercising to speed up your metabolism and give yourself time to flush. Also you may want to try things like pomegranate and unsweetened grape or cherry juice for the antioxidant powers. Another thing I had heard of is dipping your finger in some bleach and when you pee in the cup, dip your finger in it, which reactivates the bleach and goes into the sample, screwing up the test, but I have never tried it myself. I never had to worry about it because I only drank, and this was before this bulls**t EtG test.

Another thing I've seen posted is that e.coli eats the EtG, and putting your finger in your butt and wiping the inside of the container will do the trick. Get Freaky!

“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

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#81
Apr 7, 2012
 
Hopefully, the dude gets a boat load of money out of this lawsuit.
Stacy Weston

Fargo, ND

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#82
Apr 12, 2012
 
There is such thing as a Post-Conviction for false imprisonment. Anytime you are confined beyond your freedom to move is false imprisonment. you should be paid daily for your time false served incarcerated and pain and suffering. I study law and know this because I have been falsely accused-Good luck!!!!!!!!

“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

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#83
Apr 12, 2012
 
Stacy Weston wrote:
There is such thing as a Post-Conviction for false imprisonment.
Who are you talking to? What are you talking about? Learn how to use the quote feature of this website so your posts don't look like something the cat lady abandoned.
Holotta Wytrache

United States

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#84
Apr 12, 2012
 
Yes but lately there have been multiple drunken stumbling Irish union goon-based incidents in which beastly white trash men get really intoxicated and drive work vans.

Only want to know them when I need a toilet unclogged. Otherwise let them eat potatoes and drink whiskey in Irish pubs.
you itch

United States

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#85
Jan 30, 2013
 
Holotta Wytrache wrote:
Yes but lately there have been multiple drunken stumbling Irish union goon-based incidents in which beastly white trash men get really intoxicated and drive work vans.
Only want to know them when I need a toilet unclogged. Otherwise let them eat potatoes and drink whiskey in Irish pubs.
go f@#j k yourself!

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