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Capt Crunch

Cave Creek, AZ

#26 Dec 27, 2012
Consistent wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you still here?
God is calling. Go before you destroy any chance you may have had.....Although it is probably ti late for you.
Love Siren. Had relatives there and in Crantsburg also.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#27 Dec 28, 2012
Amused Slew wrote:
The came from lax gun laws and proliferation of morons, WITH DANGEROUS UNNECESSARY WEAPONRY ...
Turns out, that a neighbor of Spangler's bought the guns as a "straw purchase",(she was arrested TODAY), and sold them to Spangler ILLEGALLY and IMMEDIATELY after she purchased them. Wouldn't have mattered if the VIET CONG woman had purchased them from a licensed dealer or NOT.

So much for enforcing our nations already passed gun laws. If a dealer sold those guns, he should have immediately notified ATF, as very FEW Viet Cong women buy AR 15s in this country these days.
Should have been obvious as HELL that something "funny" was going on...
40for60

Hibbing, MN

#28 Dec 29, 2012
Capt Crunch wrote:
<quoted text>
Love Siren. Had relatives there and in Crantsburg also.
Siren, Webster, Grantsburg, at least Con is raising the IQ level in that area.
Amused Slew

Seattle, WA

#29 Dec 29, 2012
Con has IQ ?? Nope, but neither do you. LMAOROTFU~!
40for60

Hibbing, MN

#30 Dec 30, 2012
Amused Slew wrote:
Con has IQ ?? Nope, but neither do you. LMAOROTFU~!
As opposed to the -1 Wonderlic score you pumped out?
Lowell

Minneapolis, MN

#31 Dec 30, 2012
digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Turns out, that a neighbor of Spangler's bought the guns as a "straw purchase",(she was arrested TODAY), and sold them to Spangler ILLEGALLY and IMMEDIATELY after she purchased them. Wouldn't have mattered if the VIET CONG woman had purchased them from a licensed dealer or NOT.
So much for enforcing our nations already passed gun laws. If a dealer sold those guns, he should have immediately notified ATF, as very FEW Viet Cong women buy AR 15s in this country these days.
Should have been obvious as HELL that something "funny" was going on...
An aspect of firearm purchase/sales is that if you buy a firearm legally the only way to sell it is to contact law enforcement and have them perform a purchase background check on the buyer. Even thou the sale is between a private seller and private buyer the buyer must be checked out.

It's the law.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#32 Dec 30, 2012
Lowell wrote:
<quoted text>
An aspect of firearm purchase/sales is that if you buy a firearm legally the only way to sell it is to contact law enforcement and have them perform a purchase background check on the buyer. Even thou the sale is between a private seller and private buyer the buyer must be checked out.
It's the law.
Ah, NO IT'S NOT, and you should STOP spreading FALSE INFORMATION.

A "private sale" is simply a NON-FFL gun owner who chooses to sell a firearm to another private party. There is NO obligation for such a seller to "check out" a buyer.

A private seller cannot do a criminal background check thru NCIS like a dealer can, and there may be privacy issues with a non-dealer asking a law enforcement agency to do a background check on another citizen.....the cops may not believe the reason(s) why a gun owner is asking the cops to do a criminal background check.

However, what SHOULD be the law, is for private sellers to be allowed to use an FFL dealer to do a criminal background check before a private sale is made. If the dealer wants to charge a small fee, FINE, the buyer can pay for it.

About all that a private seller CAN do to try to insure that he is not selling to someone who should not be allowed to possess a gun, is to require that the buyer show a "Permit to Purchase", or a permit to carry a pistol in MN. At least the seller knows that a recent background check has been done by at least one law enforcement agency.
Lowell

Minneapolis, MN

#33 Dec 31, 2012
digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, NO IT'S NOT, and you should STOP spreading FALSE INFORMATION.
A "private sale" is simply a NON-FFL gun owner who chooses to sell a firearm to another private party. There is NO obligation for such a seller to "check out" a buyer.
A private seller cannot do a criminal background check thru NCIS like a dealer can, and there may be privacy issues with a non-dealer asking a law enforcement agency to do a background check on another citizen.....the cops may not believe the reason(s) why a gun owner is asking the cops to do a criminal background check.
However, what SHOULD be the law, is for private sellers to be allowed to use an FFL dealer to do a criminal background check before a private sale is made. If the dealer wants to charge a small fee, FINE, the buyer can pay for it.
About all that a private seller CAN do to try to insure that he is not selling to someone who should not be allowed to possess a gun, is to require that the buyer show a "Permit to Purchase", or a permit to carry a pistol in MN. At least the seller knows that a recent background check has been done by at least one law enforcement agency.
#2 applies to all handgun sales in Minnesota:

http://mn.gov/elicense/licenses/licensedetail...

We must be careful so as to not break the law.

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

#34 Dec 31, 2012
More NRA Carnage wrote:
Spengler was only convicted of manslaughter. I know of no states or civilized countries that kill people for committing manslaughter.
Still sore about losing in November, I see.
He kills his grandmother by beating her head in with a hammer and the lazy prosecuting attorney only charges him with manslaughter.

You then use that as an excuse for spewing your hatred of citizens being able to protect themselves from scum like him.

Your mind is very warped.
Amused Slew

Seattle, WA

#35 Dec 31, 2012
Pretty sad, you blame everyone, but the gun dealer...Why do you "think" he used a better weapon ??? Because of morons, like you...HE COULD ~! I like sloppy logic, according to your "thinking", guns don't facilitate murder and the exception is the norm.... You're so dumb IT HERTZ ~! LMAOROTFU~!
Lowell

Minneapolis, MN

#36 Dec 31, 2012
Why wasn't the hammer blamed for his grandmothers death?

Ban hammers.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#37 Dec 31, 2012
Lowell wrote:
<quoted text>
#2 applies to all handgun sales in Minnesota:
http://mn.gov/elicense/licenses/licensedetail...
We must be careful so as to not break the law.
Yes, Lowell, I read the link, including the 2012 state statutes...

Those laws only apply to sales and transfers FROM Federal Firearm Licensed DEALERS, NOT *private* gun sales. A person cannot obtain a pistol or "assault weapon" from a DEALER without a permit to purchase a pistol, even if it is his/her OWN weapon (example: a person brings a pistol in for repairs or modifications, when it is picked up, the owner must show "the permit" before the FFL can give it back to them). A private seller cannot do the federal criminal background check, the buyer must get the permit to buy from a dealer, but not a private seller, whether it is at a gun show or not.

Why do you think that there is so much rancor from gun haters about the "gun show loophole"? Because it is legal for a private seller to sell a pistol at a gun show, without being a dealer, hence, they can sell it without a background check. It's currently LEGAL, and gun haters want to make it ILLEGAL. Even if they do make it illegal, I can still sell a pistol from my home legally, without an FFL or background check....IF I want to.

The ONLY private sales that are illegal are "straw purchases", where a cleared buyer buys a gun who intentionally and immediately sells or gives it to someone else, or someone who knowingly sells or gives a gun who they know can't legally possess a firearm.

It is also illegal to sell across state lines without an FFL being involved, and hence, the recipient must go through a background check thru the dealer who he/she receives the firearm from, even in a private sale.

So like I said, stop spreading misinformation. I do my best to follow the law, and keep up on changes to the law. Many people misinterpret the law, because they don't understand it.
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#38 Dec 31, 2012
Lowell wrote:
<quoted text>
#2 applies to all handgun sales in Minnesota:
http://mn.gov/elicense/licenses/licensedetail...
We must be careful so as to not break the law.
Of course, it is also illegal to sell ANY stolen firearm, so if I buy from a private seller, I usually contact my local police department, give them the make, model and serial number of the firearm, and the police can tell me quickly if it is on the "stolen gun list".

“The one and only Smart Liberal”

Since: Aug 12

Former MN Tax Payer

#39 Dec 31, 2012
digger wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, Lowell, I read the link, including the 2012 state statutes...
Those laws only apply to sales and transfers FROM Federal Firearm Licensed DEALERS, NOT *private* gun sales. A person cannot obtain a pistol or "assault weapon" from a DEALER without a permit to purchase a pistol, even if it is his/her OWN weapon (example: a person brings a pistol in for repairs or modifications, when it is picked up, the owner must show "the permit" before the FFL can give it back to them). A private seller cannot do the federal criminal background check, the buyer must get the permit to buy from a dealer, but not a private seller, whether it is at a gun show or not.
Why do you think that there is so much rancor from gun haters about the "gun show loophole"? Because it is legal for a private seller to sell a pistol at a gun show, without being a dealer, hence, they can sell it without a background check. It's currently LEGAL, and gun haters want to make it ILLEGAL. Even if they do make it illegal, I can still sell a pistol from my home legally, without an FFL or background check....IF I want to.
The ONLY private sales that are illegal are "straw purchases", where a cleared buyer buys a gun who intentionally and immediately sells or gives it to someone else, or someone who knowingly sells or gives a gun who they know can't legally possess a firearm.
It is also illegal to sell across state lines without an FFL being involved, and hence, the recipient must go through a background check thru the dealer who he/she receives the firearm from, even in a private sale.
So like I said, stop spreading misinformation. I do my best to follow the law, and keep up on changes to the law. Many people misinterpret the law, because they don't understand it.
Can you clarify something for me?

It is my understanding that private party sales do not require background checks because privacy laws will not allow the information contained in a background check to be disseminated to another private party and thus would be unconstitutional.

Perhaps the wording is clumsy above, but the gist of the argument is that if private parties are required to perform a background check, it will cause all private party sales to cease. Then all sales will have to be done through a FFL dealer who will be required to provide the ATF with all the pertinent data for the buyer and will give a 100% accurate list to the Feds of every gun owner in the country.

True?
digger

Minneapolis, MN

#40 Dec 31, 2012
Smart Liberal wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you clarify something for me?
It is my understanding that private party sales do not require background checks because privacy laws will not allow the information contained in a background check to be disseminated to another private party and thus would be unconstitutional.
Perhaps the wording is clumsy above, but the gist of the argument is that if private parties are required to perform a background check, it will cause all private party sales to cease. Then all sales will have to be done through a FFL dealer who will be required to provide the ATF with all the pertinent data for the buyer and will give a 100% accurate list to the Feds of every gun owner in the country.
TRUE?
I don't claim to be an "expert", but my understanding is that the reason that private sellers are not allowed to do background checks is because the seller may try to do a background check for a reason that is NOT reasonable or ethical, and may do it for unethical reasons when the law enforcement agency can't verify that the seller doing the background check hasn't been "checked out" like an FFL has been.

That's WHY I would propose that a private seller should be able to "use" an FFL to do a background check for the purpose of selling ANY firearm, as long as the buyer and seller are physically present, the firearm involved in the transaction is present, but the info on the firearm is NOT being recorded (make, model, serial number), like it would be in an FFL sale or transfer.

At least a private seller would then know that they are selling a firearm to someone who can legally own such a firearm, and the seller can require that the buyer give them any personal info (name, address, DOB, SSN, etc.)

I think that these REASONABLE MEASURES would satisfy the GUN SHOW HATERS, and put an END to this STUPID ARGUEMENT. After all, how many mass murders have you heard of where a person when to a gun show, bought an arsenal from a private seller, then went on a rampage?? It may have happened, but I can't think of ONE...

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