12 Minnesota cities are installing wind turbines, hoping to pro...

This text is replaced by the Flash movie. A few Minnesota cities are heading toward greener pastures - and taller landmarks. Full Story
brachiosaurus

Taunton, MA

#42 Oct 1, 2009
Reading these posts, one gets the strong impression that few people have stood next to a wind turbine. These devices are ridiculously simple to maintain and take up little space. The problem that does exist, however, is that of the farm. Massing these things together is the real trouble. Scattering them, however, and not making them the exclusive energy resource, might not be so bad. In fact, one or two strategically positioned in a landscape look rather interesting.

Duluth might indeed be a good spot to try a few; however, Duluth may not have much in the way of financial resources to invest right now, either in terms of public or private money.

Obviously, a lot of people are finding wind turbines both profitable and relatively safe. California in particular has invested heavily in them, and more and more wind turbines are cropping up on the East Coast. In fact, private colleges are building them on their properties, and many technical colleges are offering programs for the servicing and installation of wind turbines. They're inevitable, but again, the question remains as to what extent we should turn to this technology.
tardfest

Minneapolis, MN

#43 Oct 1, 2009
Wind power is only a money-maker because it receives $23.37 per MWhr in subsidies; nuclear receives $1.59, predominantly as insurance guarantees.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/subsid...

Most states have laws REQUIRING the purchase of all the green power that is generated. So not only do you get $23.37 per MWhr generated, but the Government will guarantee the purchase of everything you can generate.

Itís even worse in some places - in California, power from "green sources" must be purchased at the highest rate available. Meaning not only a good subsidy, and a guaranteed market, but a market that guarantees a price equal to the highest charged by any other source.

Must be nice to be paid to generate power, and guaranteed to sell everything at top dollar, and all under Government mandate...
unclefogey

AOL

#44 Oct 1, 2009
dave wrote:
least when a vote is an option.
We need more like Furlong on council and mayor, PLEASE RUN because YOU are made of the right stuff!
<quoted text>
Sorry to steal this thread from its highly technical bent and bring it back to the earth of talking about North St. Paul where this boondoogle reject from Californis windmill has been set up.

I do not share your assessment, Dave, of Furlong. He was coveniently missing in action at the council meeting where the revenue bonds were voted on to cover the doubling of the cost of the Garage Mahal. Seems that attending this meeting to vote on the bonds and be on record for the continued fleecing of NSP residents conflicted with his vacation plans. Why should he worry about the resultant increase in the electric rates which will be used to pay off the bonds? His business is located in Oakdale and is serviced by Xcel.

He is not going to make any waves because he was appointed to the council and he is beholding to the mayor and other council members who appointed him. They have got him where they want him.
unclefogey

AOL

#45 Oct 1, 2009
brachiosaurus wrote:
.
Duluth might indeed be a good spot to try a few; however, Duluth may not have much in the way of financial resources to invest right now, either in terms of public or private money.
.
Your supposed location attached to your name of being in MA, if your actual address, would excuse you for making such a stupid statement about Duluth being a good place for windmills. If you are actually from MN, you are not excused.

Have you ever heard of Hawk Ridge where the greatest condensed yearly fall migration of hawks, falcons and other birds of prey occurs? Ya, let's put up a couple dozen wind generators on the top of the hill in Duluth and see how many birds of prey can run into the whirling blades.
Sheep

Prior Lake, MN

#46 Oct 2, 2009
I'll bet Furlongs booze shop is on the NSP electric grid.

We have friends living in that area of Oakdale and they get electricity from NSP.
unclefogey wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to steal this thread from its highly technical bent and bring it back to the earth of talking about North St. Paul where this boondoogle reject from Californis windmill has been set up.
I do not share your assessment, Dave, of Furlong. He was coveniently missing in action at the council meeting where the revenue bonds were voted on to cover the doubling of the cost of the Garage Mahal. Seems that attending this meeting to vote on the bonds and be on record for the continued fleecing of NSP residents conflicted with his vacation plans. Why should he worry about the resultant increase in the electric rates which will be used to pay off the bonds? His business is located in Oakdale and is serviced by Xcel.
He is not going to make any waves because he was appointed to the council and he is beholding to the mayor and other council members who appointed him. They have got him where they want him.
wally wysopal

Saint Paul, MN

#47 Oct 5, 2009
The article inaccurately stated that costs associated with the wind generator will be paid for by Ciy funds. No city funds will pay for the wind generator in fact the City received $20,000 for easement useage. Costs associated with the wind generator are paid for by the agency (MMPA) not the City. The 106 homes stated in the article represents the contribution of this one wind generator not the 12 being errected. The MMPA and the City collaborated on this project in a direct response to a State energy policy requireing 25% of the enrgy produced to be derived from renewable sources.This project is economically viable because of the low interest bonds made available by the Federal Government. The 12 wind generators are a small part of the Agencies plan for producing energy. As a result there will be no rates increase for the energy produced by the wind generator even though such sources typically have higher than average kwh costs than more traditional energy sources.
Wally Wysopal City Manager
wally wysopal

Saint Paul, MN

#48 Oct 5, 2009
The article inaccurately stated that costs associated with the wind generator will be paid for by Ciy funds. No city funds will pay for the wind generator in fact the City received $20,000 for easement useage. Costs associated with the wind generator are paid for by the agency (MMPA) not the City. The 106 homes stated in the article represents the contribution of this one wind generator not the 12 being errected. The MMPA and the City collaborated on this project in a direct response to a State energy policy requireing 25% of the enrgy produced to be derived from renewable sources.This project is economically viable because of the low interest bonds made available by the Federal Government. The 12 wind generators are a small part of the Agencies plan for producing energy. As a result there will be no rates increase for the energy produced by the wind generator even though such sources typically have higher than average kwh costs than more traditional energy sources.
Dave

Plymouth, MN

#49 Oct 5, 2009
You are correct, the council controls individuals who don't agree/toe the line.

The garage mahal is another example of squandering tax dollars and the electric utility WILL be using the garage for vehicle storage.

The electric utility and city is ONE operation with revenue being shared when needed. Our electric rates and taxes are higher than any other town in Minnesota and maybe even the country..

There is little hope for advanceing residents concerns with Wally as Manager. One thing for sure is Wally WILL be driving a LARGE SUV paid for by the POOR residents of North Saint Paul AND Wally gets FREE GAS for the LARGE SUV paid for the POOR residents of North Saint Paul!

Smile good little SHEEP while your getting hosed!

==========
unclefogey wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry to steal this thread from its highly technical bent and bring it back to the earth of talking about North St. Paul where this boondoogle reject from Californis windmill has been set up.
I do not share your assessment, Dave, of Furlong. He was coveniently missing in action at the council meeting where the revenue bonds were voted on to cover the doubling of the cost of the Garage Mahal. Seems that attending this meeting to vote on the bonds and be on record for the continued fleecing of NSP residents conflicted with his vacation plans. Why should he worry about the resultant increase in the electric rates which will be used to pay off the bonds? His business is located in Oakdale and is serviced by Xcel.
He is not going to make any waves because he was appointed to the council and he is beholding to the mayor and other council members who appointed him. They have got him where they want him.
Sam

Minneapolis, MN

#50 Oct 10, 2009
Electric rates in North Saint Paul are higher than Excel, Ron Andrus complained when he ran Keindels the rates were costing him THOUSANDS per month more than Excel.

North Saint Paul is not paying appliance rebates, they are out of money.

North Saint Paul property taxes are the highest in the state.

The $500,000 spent on the windmill could have been used to provide rebates to residents to subsidize purchase of new energy efficent appiances. New appiances would clearly reduce energy consumption a lot more than the windmill will EVER produce electricity AND the reduction will occurr if it's windy or not. BTW, I havn't seen the windmill turn yet... It's really generating electricity...

So the City is getting easement money from the "electric company, NOT a part of the City (I know)". So is the Garage Majahl going to be used by the "electric company" for storage of vehicles?

Meanwhile North Saint Paul is providing poll hung electric lines and NOT providing preventative tree trimming resulting in EMERGENCY outages to residents. Excel is providing buried lines which arn't affected by trees.

Bottem line: you can explain how NO City money is used by the electric company and yet a person would have to be a COMPLETE IDIOT to think there is NO CONNECTION between the city and the electric company.

The residents of North Saint Paul would be better served by Excel electricity. We would get LOWER property taxes AND better ELECTRIC service along with LOWER ELECTRIC RATES!!

Not to mention we would'nt be building a $7,000,000 (SEVEN MILLION) dollar utility garage,(GARAGE MAJHAL)!!

Even Maplewood, with all their goofy politics, outsources their street light repair to Saint Paul to save money.

North Saint Paul is not being managed correctly in order to minimize the cost of living in the town! With all the EXTRA CHARGES arbitrairly imposed by the city living here is VERY EXPENSIVE!!

==========
wally wysopal wrote:
The article inaccurately stated that costs associated with the wind generator will be paid for by Ciy funds. No city funds will pay for the wind generator in fact the City received $20,000 for easement useage. Costs associated with the wind generator are paid for by the agency (MMPA) not the City. The 106 homes stated in the article represents the contribution of this one wind generator not the 12 being errected. The MMPA and the City collaborated on this project in a direct response to a State energy policy requireing 25% of the enrgy produced to be derived from renewable sources.This project is economically viable because of the low interest bonds made available by the Federal Government. The 12 wind generators are a small part of the Agencies plan for producing energy. As a result there will be no rates increase for the energy produced by the wind generator even though such sources typically have higher than average kwh costs than more traditional energy sources.
Wally Wysopal City Manager
blow hard

Minneapolis, MN

#51 Oct 10, 2009
Gndydncr wrote:
So how fast will the wind blow once they turn those things on?
You say something? I felt a breeze...
Cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#52 Oct 10, 2009
brachiosaurus wrote:
Reading these posts, one gets the strong impression that few people have stood next to a wind turbine. These devices are ridiculously simple to maintain and take up little space.
An electro-mechanical device located 100 meters in the air is SIMPLE to maintain? Are you really this stupid???

<< The problem that does exist, however, is that of the farm. Massing these things together is the real trouble. Scattering them, however, and not making them the exclusive energy resource, might not be so bad. In fact, one or two strategically positioned in a landscape look rather interesting. >>

Do you think that argument would work for powerlines?

<< Obviously, a lot of people are finding wind turbines both profitable... >>

ONLY because of the $25 per mwh subsidy, Chump.

<< and more and more wind turbines are cropping up on the East Coast. >>

WHERE?
Cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#53 Oct 10, 2009
yeah sure wrote:
<quoted text>
What kind of A-hole response it this? Why is it stupid? Come on dipwad explain.
Wind generation is VERY site specific. You can't just throw one up anywhere and expect it to produce. DUH.
Cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#54 Oct 10, 2009
oyoboy wrote:
I dont mind the windmills just dont raise my property taxes to build one!
??? They aren't going to raise your property taxes, they are going to raise your electricity rates. Double to triple, if not more.
NSP Windmill

Minneapolis, MN

#55 Oct 10, 2009
Not spinning!

“Let's put a smile on that face”

Since: Jan 09

Saint Paul, MN

#56 Oct 10, 2009
A waste of time and money, yeah.
NSP Windmill

Minneapolis, MN

#57 Oct 11, 2009
NOT spinning!
NSP Windmill

Prior Lake, MN

#58 Oct 12, 2009
It's not spinning yet!

Appliance rebates WOULD be reducing load more than the prop will ever generate.

Since: Feb 08

Sandstone MN

#59 Oct 13, 2009
yeah sure wrote:
If cities would loosen up their zoning laws, more people could erect smaller windmills to help with their own electrical needs. Funny, for such a liberal state there are few if any places within a city where a citizen could put one up. Of course, then we would be more self sufficient and the state would lose out on their cut of taxes on energy.
Sandstone has a "tower" ordinance. It bans privately owned radio towers over a given height. The excuse was to keep out those ugly cell phone towers, but it also seems to help the city lease space for these same antennas on the water tower.

I'll bet that the fair city would have any second thoughts to revise the ordinance to allow the boondoggle of wind power.
NSP Junk

Plymouth, MN

#60 Oct 13, 2009
Cities/towns SHOULD NOT BE in any business!!

Government has to easy time monopolizing a product or service like Sandstone is with the radio towers.

North Saint Paul monopoloizes the following:

Electricity, has it's own electric business
Trash hauling, a bidder on trash documented city kickbacks
Recycleing
Bulk item pickup, they charge for a service NOT USED
Sewer, no alternative
Water, no alternative
Police, no alternative
EMS, no alternative
Parks
Streets
Engeneering
Wasting money on town DEVELOPMENT, CITY realestate investment
Doubledipping city management
City is building houses
City wanted to build a fiberoptic network, obsoleted by wireless
City monopolizes cell and other attenna placement
City uses emminent domain to run long time residents out of town
etc etc etc

==========
Disgruntled Outstater wrote:
<quoted text>
Sandstone has a "tower" ordinance. It bans privately owned radio towers over a given height. The excuse was to keep out those ugly cell phone towers, but it also seems to help the city lease space for these same antennas on the water tower.
I'll bet that the fair city would have any second thoughts to revise the ordinance to allow the boondoggle of wind power.
Windmilling

Plymouth, MN

#61 Oct 13, 2009
The Anoka windmill is advertized to provide electricity for 40 homes.

North Saint Paul is advertizing their windmill will provide electricity for 110 houses.

Are they different sizes OR is someone pimping something that isn't a fact.

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