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Clint

Minneapolis, MN

#1 Jun 3, 2012
The "Wonderful" fiber project in Monticello is failing.

The vendor Hiawatha Broadband Communications has walked away from the project. HBC claims the project failed because of a lawsuit, and predatory pricing by existing vendors.

HBC fails to admit THEY provided inadaquate planning in order to avoid te failure of the project.

HBC should have forseen the potential lawsuit AND price competition from existing ISP. Not to mention the new wireless competition which will exert much new pressure on ALL hard cable solutions, including: TP, Coax, Fiber etc.

This is a great example of why the Government should NOT get into risky product and service business.
Maggie

Minneapolis, MN

#2 Jun 3, 2012
Clint wrote:
The "Wonderful" fiber project in Monticello is failing.
The vendor Hiawatha Broadband Communications has walked away from the project. HBC claims the project failed because of a lawsuit, and predatory pricing by existing vendors.
HBC fails to admit THEY provided inadaquate planning in order to avoid te failure of the project.
HBC should have forseen the potential lawsuit AND price competition from existing ISP. Not to mention the new wireless competition which will exert much new pressure on ALL hard cable solutions, including: TP, Coax, Fiber etc.
This is a great example of why the Government should NOT get into risky product and service business.
Here is the "Official" Russian propaganda on the subject from HBC.

http://www.muninetworks.org/tags-142
Slew is my hero

Minneapolis, MN

#3 Jun 3, 2012
Clint wrote:
This is a great example of why the Government should NOT get into risky product and service business.
Amen, brother.
Seattle Slew

Seattle, WA

#4 Jun 3, 2012
Slew is my hero wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen, brother.
You'd be living in caves wondering why your brother visits your wife, so often..In fact, you wonder now...
Slew is my hero

Minneapolis, MN

#5 Jun 3, 2012
Seattle Slew wrote:
<quoted text>You'd be living in caves wondering why your brother visits your wife, so often..In fact, you wonder now...
Headline News: Post Office Fires Chicken Slew.

Stupid Slew. Liar Slew.

LMAOROLFu ~!!
Beth

Minneapolis, MN

#6 Jun 3, 2012
SS sucks Cork!!

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!!

Phock YOU SS!
Seattle Slew

Seattle, WA

#7 Jun 3, 2012
Retraction- Trolls lies UNDER a rug.... LMAOROTFU~! Boring and stupid, by a moron---TRIFECTA !
Sid

Minneapolis, MN

#9 Jun 4, 2012
Fiber is obsolete. It's to labor intensive to install and maintain. UTP CAT 6 is much better and can be installed by anyone.

Fiber not so much must be installed with special tools and training. CAT x can be installed by following Youtube instructions and parts available at many big box stores.

IMHO ISPs pimping fiber are installing a monopoly solution NOT the best network.
Randy

Saint Paul, MN

#10 Jun 4, 2012
Sid wrote:
Fiber is obsolete. It's to labor intensive to install and maintain. UTP CAT 6 is much better and can be installed by anyone.
Fiber not so much must be installed with special tools and training. CAT x can be installed by following Youtube instructions and parts available at many big box stores.
IMHO ISPs pimping fiber are installing a monopoly solution NOT the best network.
I'm guessing that you aren't familar with networking. Cat6 copper has a max bandwidth of several GB. Fiber has a bandwidth of many TB.

In plain English for you non-technical people, fiber can carry thousands of times more data than copper.

Fiber also has much lower losses than copper.
Sid

Minneapolis, MN

#11 Jun 4, 2012
Randy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm guessing that you aren't familar with networking. Cat6 copper has a max bandwidth of several GB. Fiber has a bandwidth of many TB.
In plain English for you non-technical people, fiber can carry thousands of times more data than copper.
Fiber also has much lower losses than copper.
Seems to me it's correctly ddefined as Gb or Tb, the small "b" indicating bit as opposed to byte. Data communications is always a bit at a time not a byte at a time as would occur on a channel associated with I/O to a computer.

You are correct about the excess speed of fiber BUT there is no need for that speed, NONE. A residential internet/TV/phone user has no need for the speed provided by fiber.

Futhermore as I said fiber is very expensive to buy, install and maintain.

Using fiber for residential use is like driving a Dodge Viper to pick up milk.
Randy

Saint Paul, MN

#12 Jun 4, 2012
Sid wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to me it's correctly ddefined as Gb or Tb, the small "b" indicating bit as opposed to byte. Data communications is always a bit at a time not a byte at a time as would occur on a channel associated with I/O to a computer.
You are correct about the excess speed of fiber BUT there is no need for that speed, NONE. A residential internet/TV/phone user has no need for the speed provided by fiber.
Futhermore as I said fiber is very expensive to buy, install and maintain.
Using fiber for residential use is like driving a Dodge Viper to pick up milk.
Not at all true.

I have a cabin up north about a half hour out of Bemidji. We have fiber there through Paul Bunyan.

One cable provides me phone, Internet at 12MB, and two hundred channels of cable TV - plus has enough reserve capacity to allow many times more capacity in the future.

Don't forget that 20 years ago, 28 kbs was considered more than enough. 10 years ago 1MB DSL was state of the art. Today most people have 12 MB service. Fiber provides the capacity for the future, not just for today - 10 years from now, we'll probably be at 100 MB speeds.

Fiber is also less susceptable to electronic interference and is more secure. Fiber also does much better in wet environments, such as direct burial in ditches.

You are the same mentality person that said that horses were good enough when cars came out and that electricity was just a passing fad.
Sid

Minneapolis, MN

#13 Jun 4, 2012
Randy wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all true.
I have a cabin up north about a half hour out of Bemidji. We have fiber there through Paul Bunyan.
One cable provides me phone, Internet at 12MB, and two hundred channels of cable TV - plus has enough reserve capacity to allow many times more capacity in the future.
Don't forget that 20 years ago, 28 kbs was considered more than enough. 10 years ago 1MB DSL was state of the art. Today most people have 12 MB service. Fiber provides the capacity for the future, not just for today - 10 years from now, we'll probably be at 100 MB speeds.
Fiber is also less susceptable to electronic interference and is more secure. Fiber also does much better in wet environments, such as direct burial in ditches.
You are the same mentality person that said that horses were good enough when cars came out and that electricity was just a passing fad.
Well that was the promise of Hiawatha Broadband Communications to the residents of Monticello.

Once they saw fiber operate everyone would want it and all those other ISPs suppling broadband would be dead meat.

Well all that wonderful clear powerful fiber wasn't needed and that is one reason why the fiber project is failing. So now all those residents are seeing the truth in that Coax and UTP supply the needed bandwidth and that is one reason why the fiber project has failed.

Early ethernet and Token Ring LAN offerrings were 4 Mbps or less. Now UTP is delivering 100 Mbps over existing copper. Why install fiber?

Furthmore users today are moving to use wireless broadband, which will obsolete ALL wired solutions.

Randy, why do you not talk about wireless?

You can buy a mobile device TODAY and have all the bandwidth you need. Heck you can use an apple product with ATT wireless and have a face to face realtime discussion with someone on the other side of the world.

IMHO, wireless (xG) is THE killer broadband.
Randy

Saint Paul, MN

#14 Jun 4, 2012
Sid wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that was the promise of Hiawatha Broadband Communications to the residents of Monticello.
Once they saw fiber operate everyone would want it and all those other ISPs suppling broadband would be dead meat.
Well all that wonderful clear powerful fiber wasn't needed and that is one reason why the fiber project is failing. So now all those residents are seeing the truth in that Coax and UTP supply the needed bandwidth and that is one reason why the fiber project has failed.
Early ethernet and Token Ring LAN offerrings were 4 Mbps or less. Now UTP is delivering 100 Mbps over existing copper. Why install fiber?
Furthmore users today are moving to use wireless broadband, which will obsolete ALL wired solutions.
Randy, why do you not talk about wireless?
You can buy a mobile device TODAY and have all the bandwidth you need. Heck you can use an apple product with ATT wireless and have a face to face realtime discussion with someone on the other side of the world.
IMHO, wireless (xG) is THE killer broadband.
There isn't enough bandwidth for wireless to supply broadband at reasonable speeds to the masses. Plus the cost is astronomical in comparison.

Most broadband plans limit you to 4 GB before either slowing your speed dramatically or charging you additional fees. In comparison, Comcast doesn't charge you extra until you reach 200 GB per month - and offers much better speeds than wireless.
Sid

Minneapolis, MN

#15 Jun 4, 2012
Randy wrote:
<quoted text>
There isn't enough bandwidth for wireless to supply broadband at reasonable speeds to the masses. Plus the cost is astronomical in comparison.
Most broadband plans limit you to 4 GB before either slowing your speed dramatically or charging you additional fees. In comparison, Comcast doesn't charge you extra until you reach 200 GB per month - and offers much better speeds than wireless.
Everyone I know using wireless is very satisfied with coverage and speeds. You need to understand the concept of "needed speed" as opposed to which offering has the "fastest speed".

When a user can utilize a wireless mobile device in Minnesota and have a realtime face to face discussion with someone in Germany also using a wireless mobile device there isn't much more needed. Plus using a wireless mobile device with voice regognition and ask questions of the WEB, pretty fantastic. Understand these users are well compensated and cost is no object, of course cost will continue to come down.

As far as Comcast goes, CenturyLink DSL is very adaquate for TV/ISP/phone at a cost of less than $50/mo. Comcast is around $100/mo along with the fiber offerings.

One fact for sure: competition is fierce in the ISP businesses and the Monticello fiber project will have a tough go of it pimmping fiber as their only soultion.
Craig

Minneapolis, MN

#16 Jun 5, 2012
Government should stay out of offering products and/or services to the maximum degree possible.

As soon as Government gets involved they start to build an empire and costs skyrocket with no accountability as with a private company.

The most discouraging aspect of Government involvement is a product or service is that Government can and does create monopolies AND Government controls code enforcement and law enforcement which puts Government in position to manipulate aspects of a business they are in to easily create a monopoly.

This is occurring in the trash collection business where towns like North Saint Paul have created an unneeded monopoly with one trash hauler getting all the business for the town.

Of course now the rates are higher than non-monpolized towns.

BTW it's NOT coincidental that North Saint Paul was also trying to create a new monopoly with a fiber network just like Monticllo.

NSP voters rejected the fiber deal the town tryed to ram down their throats, than God for smart voters.
Schmahl Spew

Saint Paul, MN

#17 Jun 5, 2012
Schmahl, go back to your Jim Beam and leave the intelligent and under-70 crowd alone.
Craig

Minneapolis, MN

#18 Jun 5, 2012
Schmahl Spew wrote:
Schmahl, go back to your Jim Beam and leave the intelligent and under-70 crowd alone.
Who is Schmahl?
Schmahl Spew

Saint Paul, MN

#19 Jun 5, 2012
Craig wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is Schmahl?
Nice try. You.
Craig

Minneapolis, MN

#20 Jun 5, 2012
Schmahl Spew wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice try. You.
Guess your throwing random stones at just anyone.

You should make an informed comment on the topic of this thread. It might be difficult but won't you give her a try..
Craig

Minneapolis, MN

#21 Jun 6, 2012
So who IS Schmahl?

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