The Second Amendment
NG Krow

Clarkesville, GA

#64 Feb 3, 2013
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/militi...

1.
a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2.
a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3.
all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4.
a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

..........
I and many others think that one must only fit one criteria of the definition not all..
Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#65 Feb 3, 2013
DumbLiberals wrote:
<quoted text>If you don't know the difference between taking away as opposed to allowing, and the repercussions that can result; then you are as naive as your posts show you to be.
AMENDMENT II

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state",.....
What do those those words mean ?
Why are they there ?

Your inability to respond to a simple question reveals the absence of any base of knowledge or rational analysis.

If your only response to the question is a logical and important question is personal attack - you lose.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state",.....

If you can't, or won't answer that question, please don't waste others' time with silly, unfounded personal attacks.
Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#66 Feb 3, 2013
NG Krow wrote:
http://dictionary.reference.co m/browse/militia

1.
a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2.
a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3.
all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4.
a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

..........
I and many others think that one must only fit one criteria of the definition not all..
Great post - Good points.

And "we'll regulated" -

does that mean regulated by membership in a militia supervised by the state ?
or something else ?

And "necessary to the security of the state" -

Does that mean membership must be in a militia organized and regulated by the state, which exists to defend the state from external and internal threats against the "state" ?
Or something else ?

Right now the Supremes say something else. They say the first 1/2 of the Second Amendment is meaningless surplus, to be ignored in interpretation.

If we believe the Supremes are the ultimate decision makers on this issue,
then why aren't they the ultimate decision makers for:
abortion rights ?
and
Obama Care ?

Seems if we rely on their opinion on one issue, we have to rely on their opinion on other issues.
Floridian

Orlando, FL

#67 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
AMENDMENT II
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state",.....
What do those those words mean ?
Why are they there ?
The existence of the State National Guard is adequate to fulfill that necessity and is what the founding fathers had in mind regardless of what the Supreme Court says.
That will be $160.00, please pay the secretary on the way out
Minuteman

Watkinsville, GA

#68 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post.
The Confederate Government, in the name of protecting "freedom" from Northern oppression, engaged in oppression, confiscation, and stamping down freedoms far in excess of that which the Northern Government ever engaged.
You've already shown to be a long winded gas bag, now you show your ignorance as well.
Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#69 Feb 3, 2013
Floridian wrote:
<quoted text>The existence of the State National Guard is adequate to fulfill that necessity and is what the founding fathers had in mind regardless of what the Supreme Court says.
That will be $160.00, please pay the secretary on the way out
So there doesn't need to be any connection between the person with the firearms and the National Guard ?

It just needs to exist, and I, who the National Guard doesn't even know exists, have a right to possess firearms ?

Does that seem reasonable ?
NG Krow

Clarkesville, GA

#71 Feb 3, 2013
Floridian

Orlando, FL

#72 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
And "we'll regulated" -
does that mean regulated by membership in a militia supervised by the state ?
or something else ?
And "necessary to the security of the state" -
Does that mean membership must be in a militia organized and regulated by the state, which exists to defend the state from external and internal threats against the "state" ?
Or something else ?
Well regulated means (in the English of that day) to be well trained.

"Necessary to the security of the state" means that a state needs to have a means to protect itself separate from the federal government. I doesn't need to be the States National Guard but it fulfills the requirement.

Your second consultation will be an additional $120.00, please pay on your way out.

Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#73 Feb 3, 2013
Minuteman wrote:
<quoted text>You've already shown to be a long winded gas bag, now you show your ignorance as well.
Here are some facts for your edification.

.... When the Confederacy initiated the first conscription (the draft) in American history, lower-class whites resented exemptions given to the upper classes and those who owned at least 20 slaves. In a number of counties, government officials begged to be released from draft quotas.
.... Almost from the beginning of the war, food and equipment shortages forced the Confederate army to impress (to take for public use) property from the citizens. Governor Brown of Georgia wrote the War Department to warn that the “baneful operations” of impressments were producing an “evil spirit, bordering already in many cases upon open disloyalty.” The editor of the Atlanta Southern Confederacy openly advised readers to resist impressments.
.... Among states' rights advocates, there was bitter opposition to the increasing centralization of the Confederate government;
.... By 1865 nearly two-thirds of the men in the Confederate army had given up fighting, leaving their regiments to return to salvage what was left of their homes.
..... The Confederate Constitution prohibited "States Rights" by making it illegal for any state to stop slavery;
.... The Confederate Home Guard, was granted extra-constitutional rights to stifle dissent, enforce conscription and other edicts, and was authorized to use force, lethal or otherwise, to do so;
.... The Confederacy also had:
price and wage controls,
internal passports restricting internal travel,
government nationalized salt and alcohol production,
required railroads to operate at a loss, and
required shippers to transport government goods at no charge;
.... Voting was restricted to about 30% of the adult population.

Don't try to insult the big dogs when, intellectually, you're a miniature chihuahua. You just look even more foolish.

Read some books, maybe try:

Life in the South During the Civil War by
James P. Reger;

Guerrillas, Unionists, and Violence on the Confederate Home Front by Daniel E. Sutherland.;

Kentucky's Civil War 1861-1865 by Bryan Bush;
DumbLiberals

Adel, GA

#74 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post - Good points.
And "we'll regulated" -
does that mean regulated by membership in a militia supervised by the state ?
or something else ?
And "necessary to the security of the state" -
Does that mean membership must be in a militia organized and regulated by the state, which exists to defend the state from external and internal threats against the "state" ?
Or something else ?
Right now the Supremes say something else. They say the first 1/2 of the Second Amendment is meaningless surplus, to be ignored in interpretation.
If we believe the Supremes are the ultimate decision makers on this issue,
then why aren't they the ultimate decision makers for:
abortion rights ?
and
Obama Care ?
Seems if we rely on their opinion on one issue, we have to rely on their opinion on other issues.

A Supreme you are not. Someone who understands plain English, you are not. Someone with a lot of baggage on each subject, you are.

You ask a lot of questions most everyone knows the answer too, except it "seems you are the only one who can't figure it out."

Abortion=the Supremes say yes.
Obama care=the Supremes say yes.
Personal weapons=the Supremes say yes.

What is it you don't understand? Are you daft?

And if the Supremes say no gun ownership, who's going to take them away? you? your buddies the police forces? "Seems to me" you are looking to create a conflict that will cause a lot of deaths in this country.

Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#75 Feb 3, 2013
Floridian wrote:
<quoted text>Well regulated means (in the English of that day) to be well trained.

"Necessary to the security of the state" means that a state needs to have a means to protect itself separate from the federal government. I doesn't need to be the States National Guard but it fulfills the requirement.

Your second consultation will be an additional $120.00, please pay on your way out.
Good points.(Maybe a little "spin")

I thought you were operating pro bono - how about a contingency contract ?
Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#76 Feb 3, 2013
Floridian wrote:
<quoted text>Well regulated means (in the English of that day) to be well trained.

"Necessary to the security of the state" means that a state needs to have a means to protect itself separate from the federal government. I doesn't need to be the States National Guard but it fulfills the requirement.

Your second consultation will be an additional $120.00, please pay on your way out.
Forgot to ask ...

If we are going by what the language meant back then - sent they meant black powder muskets - then we have a right to black powder muskets ?

And since the militia was needed because there was no national army, now that we have the largest military in the world - just who is the national guard protecting us from ? So We gotta give up our muskets ?

Please keep sending the bill, the last two got lost in the mail. Darn.
Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#77 Feb 3, 2013
DumbLiberals wrote:
<quoted text>A Supreme you are not. Someone who understands plain English, you are not. Someone with a lot of baggage on each subject, you are.

You ask a lot of questions most everyone knows the answer too, except it "seems you are the only one who can't figure it out."

Abortion=the Supremes say yes.
Obama care=the Supremes say yes.
Personal weapons=the Supremes say yes.

What is it you don't understand? Are you daft?

And if the Supremes say no gun ownership, who's going to take them away? you? your buddies the police forces? "Seems to me" you are looking to create a conflict that will cause a lot of deaths in this country.
"Seems to me" that I am suggesting that intelligent Americans might form their own ideas and opinions,

But hey, if you don't have the desire or ability to study the law and form your own opinions,
and instead have surrendered all thought processes to others,
at least you won't get exhausted contemplating complex issues.

On the positive side-

At least you're not one of those inconsistent people who say that 5 of the 9 Supremes are correct on one issue, and wrong on another.

You'll worship whatever 5 of the 9 political appointees tell you to think.

Maybe when I got my J.D. they took the exaltation of anyone with a black robe away. Who knows.
Floridian

Orlando, FL

#80 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgot to ask ...
If we are going by what the language meant back then - sent they meant black powder muskets - then we have a right to black powder muskets ?
And since the militia was needed because there was no national army, now that we have the largest military in the world - just who is the national guard protecting us from ? So We gotta give up our muskets ?
Please keep sending the bill, the last two got lost in the mail. Darn.
1. You definitely can own a black powder musket, a cannon, a 50 cal rifle or a bow and arrow.
See (the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.)

2. The State National Guard is protecting you against anything that states Governor says is a threat.

3. The state militia is intended to be different and separate from the Federal government military authority.

Our bookkeeper is getting nervous at extending credit without the required information. Please submit your Name, Address, social security number and at least one credit card number.

Current invoice $400.00
DumbLiberals

Adel, GA

#81 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
"Seems to me" that I am suggesting that intelligent Americans might form their own ideas and opinions,
But hey, if you don't have the desire or ability to study the law and form your own opinions,
and instead have surrendered all thought processes to others,
at least you won't get exhausted contemplating complex issues.
On the positive side-
At least you're not one of those inconsistent people who say that 5 of the 9 Supremes are correct on one issue, and wrong on another.
You'll worship whatever 5 of the 9 political appointees tell you to think.
Maybe when I got my J.D. they took the exaltation of anyone with a black robe away. Who knows.

For sure you are a "seemer" or better yet a "dreamer."
Yeah right, you're the only one who knows everything. My apologies.
Maybe I'll meet you on day during the revolution.

Informed Opinion

Lehigh Acres, FL

#82 Feb 3, 2013
DumbLiberals wrote:
<quoted text>For sure you are a "seemer" or better yet a "dreamer."
Yeah right, you're the only one who knows everything. My apologies.
Maybe I'll meet you on day during the revolution.
What revolution ?

Did the Supremes authorize a revolution ?

Now that we've both shown how far we can pee in the snow, I'm through with you.

Enjoy the Super Bowl.
bored

Adel, GA

#83 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post - Good points.
And "we'll regulated" -
does that mean regulated by membership in a militia supervised by the state ?
or something else ?
And "necessary to the security of the state" -
Does that mean membership must be in a militia organized and regulated by the state, which exists to defend the state from external and internal threats against the "state" ?
Or something else ?
Right now the Supremes say something else. They say the first 1/2 of the Second Amendment is meaningless surplus, to be ignored in interpretation.
If we believe the Supremes are the ultimate decision makers on this issue,
then why aren't they the ultimate decision makers for:
abortion rights ?
and
Obama Care ?
Seems if we rely on their opinion on one issue, we have to rely on their opinion on other issues.
Boring.
Minuteman

Watkinsville, GA

#84 Feb 3, 2013
Informed Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are some facts for your edification.
.... When the Confederacy initiated the first conscription (the draft) in American history, lower-class whites resented exemptions given to the upper classes and those who owned at least 20 slaves. In a number of counties, government officials begged to be released from draft quotas.
.... Almost from the beginning of the war, food and equipment shortages forced the Confederate army to impress (to take for public use) property from the citizens. Governor Brown of Georgia wrote the War Department to warn that the “baneful operations” of impressments were producing an “evil spirit, bordering already in many cases upon open disloyalty.” The editor of the Atlanta Southern Confederacy openly advised readers to resist impressments.
.... Among states' rights advocates, there was bitter opposition to the increasing centralization of the Confederate government;
.... By 1865 nearly two-thirds of the men in the Confederate army had given up fighting, leaving their regiments to return to salvage what was left of their homes.
..... The Confederate Constitution prohibited "States Rights" by making it illegal for any state to stop slavery;
.... The Confederate Home Guard, was granted extra-constitutional rights to stifle dissent, enforce conscription and other edicts, and was authorized to use force, lethal or otherwise, to do so;
.... The Confederacy also had:
price and wage controls,
internal passports restricting internal travel,
government nationalized salt and alcohol production,
required railroads to operate at a loss, and
required shippers to transport government goods at no charge;
.... Voting was restricted to about 30% of the adult population.
Don't try to insult the big dogs when, intellectually, you're a miniature chihuahua. You just look even more foolish.
Read some books, maybe try:
Life in the South During the Civil War by
James P. Reger;
Guerrillas, Unionists, and Violence on the Confederate Home Front by Daniel E. Sutherland.;
Kentucky's Civil War 1861-1865 by Bryan Bush;
Well Junior, you seem to have left out a few things, like what about the New York City draft riots in July of 1863. It appears they weren't thrilled about the idea of fighting for Uncle Abe and the Union. They took it out on the blacks living there and killed over 100 of them. What was that all about?? Lincoln had to divert regiments fresh off the Battle of Gettysburg just to quell the violence. And how about old Abe? It's well known that he said "If I could save the Union without freeing a single slave I would do it." Isn't it also true the he only declared the Emancipation Proclamation because the war was going badly for the North?
Now let's talk about one of your northern heroes, William Tecumseh Sherman. I think in this day he'd be referred to as a terrorist. Yes in his famous march to the sea, he cut Georgia in half. And doing it by means of arson, looting, murder and other atrocities. but yes he freed slaves, and then abandoned them to fend for themselves. You probably think of him as a great General, but I think of him more as a glorified terrorist.
I could go on with more, but then I would be on the same level as you in being a long winded know it all. Have a nice day!
NG Krow

Commerce, GA

#85 Feb 4, 2013
Has anyone got an opinion on the National Sheriffs Association taking a stance against gun control ?

They will not be enforcing any of these measures should they pass.You can find a video about the subject in the youtube link I posted above in this thread.
Informed Opinion

United States

#86 Feb 4, 2013
Minuteman wrote:
<quoted text>Well Junior, you seem to have left out a few things, like what about the New York City draft riots in July of 1863. It appears they weren't thrilled about the idea of fighting for Uncle Abe and the Union. They took it out on the blacks living there and killed over 100 of them. What was that all about?? Lincoln had to divert regiments fresh off the Battle of Gettysburg just to quell the violence. And how about old Abe? It's well known that he said "If I could save the Union without freeing a single slave I would do it." Isn't it also true the he only declared the Emancipation Proclamation because the war was going badly for the North?
Now let's talk about one of your northern heroes, William Tecumseh Sherman. I think in this day he'd be referred to as a terrorist. Yes in his famous march to the sea, he cut Georgia in half. And doing it by means of arson, looting, murder and other atrocities. but yes he freed slaves, and then abandoned them to fend for themselves. You probably think of him as a great General, but I think of him more as a glorified terrorist.
I could go on with more, but then I would be on the same level as you in being a long winded know it all. Have a nice day!
What in the world do Lincoln's motivations have to do with the limitations on freedoms in the Confederacy's Constitution ?

Either the Confederate Constitution violated the theory of State and individual rights, or it didn't.

Sorry to say, the hypocritical affluent and powerful leaders of the Confederacy, who claimed to exalt "States Rights", created a Constitution that restricted States Rights even more than the North.

Human nature is sometimes consistent.

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