Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.
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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66780
Feb 3, 2014
 
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--I spoke about reward/punishment and it is to be found in the Torah.
Frijoles----When you understand the Hebrew give me a ring. Then we can talk.
HughBe--- I take that as an attempt at humour. Note, it is not necessary for me to know Hebrew in order to know that there are BLESSINGS/rewards and CURSES/punishments in the scriptures/ Torah. In addition, I believe that the English translation of the following is ACCURATE and so there is no need for me to know Hebrew. The ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT is clearly stated in relation to non-observance of the Day of Atonement.
" For any person who will not be afflicted on that very day, shall be cut off from its people." The Complete Jewish Bible.
Do you think that the rabbis mistranslated the text?
Actually the ENTIRE theology related to the Day of Atonement is post-Biblical.

As I stated in the former post. Seder Mo'ed - Tractate Yoma

So all the hoo has about reward and punishment is interesting but totally IRRELEVANT to this holiday.

Dont try to explain my religion, it only makes you look more foolish....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66781
Feb 3, 2014
 
Here Hughbe - some bedtime reading

tractate yoma

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/...
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#66782
Feb 3, 2014
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I still have some shoveling to do, on the deck/around front door etc and will confess to working up a sweat.
I probably wouldn't have a machine either except for our former corner house that had 150 feet of sidewalk. It comes in handy though. 14 years old and still works well. Always starts on the first pull - nothing like a Honda.(I think they're made in Jamaica!:))
Frijoles---good for the arms!

Former---I still have some shoveling to do, on the deck/around front door etc and will confess to working up a sweat.

HughBe--- It seems to me that you have a lot of bending over to do. Be careful as it could damage your backside. Is Frijoles living near to you?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66783
Feb 3, 2014
 
Huggy

And in case you are wondering where the theology for Rosh Hashanah comes from

http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Rosh_HaShanah.pd...

scroll down to 16A
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#66784
Feb 3, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the ENTIRE theology related to the Day of Atonement is post-Biblical.
As I stated in the former post. Seder Mo'ed - Tractate Yoma
So all the hoo has about reward and punishment is interesting but totally IRRELEVANT to this holiday.
Dont try to explain my religion, it only makes you look more foolish....
Frijoles---Actually the ENTIRE theology related to the Day of Atonement is post-Biblical.

HughBe--- How can that be? When is it celebrated by members of your religion? Is it a different day from what God gave?

Below is the biblical theology in respect of the Day of Atonement.

Belief 1---on the tenth day of ( the) seventh month is the Day of Atonement.

Belief 2--- It shall be for you a time of holy convocation

Belief 3--- you shall afflict yourselves

Belief 4---(You shall) present a food offering to the Lord

Belief 5---you shall not do any work on that very day

Belief 6--- whoever is not afflicted on that very day shall be cut off from his people.

Belief 7---- And whoever does any work on that very day, that person I will destroy from among his people.

Belief 8--- It is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

Belief 9---It shall be to you a Sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict yourselves.

Belief 10---On the ninth day of the month beginning at evening, from evening to evening shall you keep your Sabbath.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#66785
Feb 3, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
Huggy
And in case you are wondering where the theology for Rosh Hashanah comes from
http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Rosh_HaShanah.pd...
scroll down to 16A
Thanks but you may recall that I gave the theology from the scriptures, see below. Also, I tend to separate theology from customs and this does not mean that there is no merit in customs but I like to keep them separate.

The holiday THEOLOGY for TRUMPETS in the Torah are below.

Step 1 (tells WHEN it must be done)--"In the seventh month, on the first day of the month"

Step 2 (HOW)--"you shall observe a day of solemn REST"

STEP 3 (HOW)---"a memorial proclaimed with blast of trumpets, a holy convocation."

Step 4 (PROHIBITION)---You shall not do any ordinary work,

Step 5(HOW)--- and you shall present a food offering to the Lord.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#66786
Feb 3, 2014
 
Forgive me, I used only Leviticus 23 in my previous post to outline biblical theology for the Day of Atonement. So, I omitted the most important part of the theology i.e. "For on that day shall the PRIEST make an ATONEMENT for you"

Observation, there are other teachings associated with the Day of Atonement and they are integral to the TEMPLE.

Finally, nothing that I have said in this post is post-biblical.
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#66787
Feb 3, 2014
 

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HughBe wrote:
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HughBe--- It seems to me that you have a lot of bending over to do. Be careful as it could damage your backside. Is Frijoles living near to you?
It seems you have shown a lot concern on here for the backsides of men.

And then you go and try to blame it on Frijoles.

I hope you know I only want to be friends with you.

I think of you only as a brother.

Sorry. That is all I can offer you at this time, Mon.
former res

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#66788
Feb 3, 2014
 

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Frijoles wrote:
Huggy
And in case you are wondering where the theology for Rosh Hashanah comes from
http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Rosh_HaShanah.pd...
scroll down to 16A
Hey you called him Huggy! funny!
former res

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#66789
Feb 3, 2014
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I would consider buying one if I knew with any certainty that our winters required one. The last bunch of winters have been very inconsistent - about 1 snow year out of four.
We lived for the first 13 years in a city row house - 14 feet of sidewalk in front - whole "lot" was 14 by 38 feet - 700 sq ft house. Just us and 2 dogs.

Then moved to the corner house in the burbs. In January. It snowed 3X in a row, After the 3rd time, I started checking out Consumer Reports under "snow blowers."

The 50 feet of sidewalk in front wasn't bad - it was the 100 down the side that did it!
(Plus a small, shared driveway.) Still only a 5000 sq ft lot but with a lot of sidewalk.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66790
Feb 4, 2014
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks but you may recall that I gave the theology from the scriptures, see below. Also, I tend to separate theology from customs and this does not mean that there is no merit in customs but I like to keep them separate.
The holiday THEOLOGY for TRUMPETS in the Torah are below.
Step 1 (tells WHEN it must be done)--"In the seventh month, on the first day of the month"
Step 2 (HOW)--"you shall observe a day of solemn REST"
STEP 3 (HOW)---"a memorial proclaimed with blast of trumpets, a holy convocation."
Step 4 (PROHIBITION)---You shall not do any ordinary work,
Step 5(HOW)--- and you shall present a food offering to the Lord.
I guess this is the point where you need a REMINDER as to why we are conversing

You stated that reward and punishment was a dominant theology of Judaism (not of the Bible, but of Jews like me) and used Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur as examples.

My response was that the only references from the bible regarding these holidays were two commandments - shofar for Rosh Hashanah and affliicting for Yom Kippur. I followed up with source of the customs and meanings of the holidays which were not biblical but Talmudic.

The implication being two fold
1) any quotes from the bible regarding Gods nature, though potentially fascinating, were not necessarily relevant to those holidays despite your earlier citation
2) and that any theology attributed to them were not law but custom (actually they tend to be midrashic). Meaning that they are not canon. In fact they are the opposite. The theology ( the notion of book of life and death, and God as sitting on throne judging everyone) is basically a folk story (thats what midrash are).

So basically you just AGREED with my train of posts, and then (earlier) started to attack me for following the Talmud (red herring and straw argument)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66791
Feb 4, 2014
 

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HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--I spoke about reward/punishment and it is to be found in the Torah.
Frijoles----When you understand the Hebrew give me a ring. Then we can talk.
HughBe--- I take that as an attempt at humour. Note, it is not necessary for me to know Hebrew in order to know that there are BLESSINGS/rewards and CURSES/punishments in the scriptures/ Torah. In addition, I believe that the English translation of the following is ACCURATE and so there is no need for me to know Hebrew. The ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT is clearly stated in relation to non-observance of the Day of Atonement.
" For any person who will not be afflicted on that very day, shall be cut off from its people." The Complete Jewish Bible.
Do you think that the rabbis mistranslated the text?
One of many contradictory passages in the Bible about the nature of God

But more importantly none of them directly linked to the Jewish High Holidays - whose theological underpinnings are widely known (and previously cited) as coming from post biblical texts.

If you want to give up on the High Holidays for a while and refocus on your argument on how Jews understand God, and more significantly, the commandments, I direct you to a book by Gillman called The Way into Encountering God in Judaism
http://www.amazon.com/Way-Into-Encountering-G... .

In that book, he methodically shows ALL the ways God is depicted in the Bible, with ALL the CONTRADICTIONS (i.e. he doesnt just cherry pick concepts like reward and punishment, rather he documents them, and then shows how God later reverses himself.)

If you prefer to FREEZE and follow just a few lines in the Bible - who am I to stop you? But dont conflate that with my religion, mon.

And definitely dont post google-able misstatements about the meanings behind my religion's holidays - thats lame at best, and devious at worst.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66792
Feb 4, 2014
 

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From the book reviews
(in case you are too intellectually lazy to follow the link)

".....This audacious exploration of the Jewish concept of God squarely faces many contradictions and conundrums....

"....Gillman surveys the more traditional images of God. He sees the development of these images as developing from a God who instantly seeks to punish sins, such as the punishment of Adam and Eve, and the punishment of Cain after killing Able, to a God who may delay or postpone punishment, to the image of God who, through repentence, cancels punishment completely, such as when the people of Nineveh repented in the book of Jonah....

".....In 4,000 years of reading, writing, and talking, Jews have imagined countless images of God. The Way into Encountering God in Judaism is an introductory survey of this imaginative tradition. Neil Gilman, a philosophy professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York, freely asserts that that "nothing that we human beings say about God or God's activities in the world is literally true." Given that, Gilman asserts, "To think and talk of God ... is to think and talk metaphorically. We must make our peace with that conclusion and then trace its implications." The image of God as presented in the Bible and in Jewish tradition is "a complex metaphorical system" whose main characteristics are plurality and fluidity. The metaphors change over time, as God's people come to understand God in new ways....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66793
Feb 4, 2014
 

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".....The metaphors change over time, as God's people come to understand God in new ways....

SHOCKING, SHOCKING, SHOCKING

(not)
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#66794
Feb 4, 2014
 
Frij

Your judge seems to find you mostly funny, nuts and most recently clueless.

His viewpoints seem nuanced. Either that or he just likes the pretty pictures.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

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#66795
Feb 4, 2014
 

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Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
What keeps this conversation from being a total snoozefest is the use of words like "sinister".
rabbee: well i already know, the end of this story we are here all in. because i know WHO, The Real AUTHOR is. and it ain't, muhammed or obama. because this world is evil and wicked, and filled with debauchers of idolatry. and refuses to consider being here, in The Only Story from G-D again.

when you teach only what men say as truth, and nothing what G-D says is true. it is all, called idolatry. if G-D had as many true believers, as obama has. this world, could be redeemed. even muhammed or the pope has more believers in them, than G-D ever had here in TheTorah again...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66796
Feb 4, 2014
 

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former res wrote:
Frij
Your judge seems to find you mostly funny, nuts and most recently clueless.
His viewpoints seem nuanced. Either that or he just likes the pretty pictures.
Its done by rote, so I think he just likes the pretty pictures. I think it is Joel. I thought it was MUQ until I saw he was judged too.

Interestingly enough my judging button hasnt worked for a few days. I dont know if Topix has the ability to turn it off (I doubt it) or some new incompatibility - maybe with my Adobe Flash. I have no problem with the reply button.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66797
Feb 4, 2014
 

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former res wrote:
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So man did create god? In a sense?
To revisit this:

I believe that God is real (i.e. not created by man), but man invented "Godtalk" and religion.

former res

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#66798
Feb 4, 2014
 

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Frijoles wrote:
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Its done by rote, so I think he just likes the pretty pictures. I think it is Joel. I thought it was MUQ until I saw he was judged too.
Interestingly enough my judging button hasnt worked for a few days. I dont know if Topix has the ability to turn it off (I doubt it) or some new incompatibility - maybe with my Adobe Flash. I have no problem with the reply button.
My judging button was acting a little funny too here and there. I would go to click on it and everything would just slide out of the way. Seems better now.

All I know is you can't judge yourself. On here and perhaps also in life. Deep.

Since: Aug 11

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#66799
Feb 4, 2014
 

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Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its done by rote, so I think he just likes the pretty pictures. I think it is Joel. I thought it was MUQ until I saw he was judged too.
Interestingly enough my judging button hasnt worked for a few days. I dont know if Topix has the ability to turn it off (I doubt it) or some new incompatibility - maybe with my Adobe Flash. I have no problem with the reply button.
I noticed the same thing. Not working for me either. Are you using a Chrome browser by any chance?

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