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JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49188 Feb 12, 2013
EMPTYING THE MIND:

"The mind has to be empty to see clearly."

J Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living

QUESTION:

Is it possible to empty the mind? How? Is Krishnamurti correct in saying so?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49189 Feb 12, 2013
NATURE & RELIGION:

"When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important."

J Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living

QUESTION:

What more can be added to his view above?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49190 Feb 12, 2013
THE DEVIL & ORGANIZED RELIGIONS:

"You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoop down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. The friend said to the devil, "What did that man pick up?" "He picked up a piece of the truth," said the devil. "That is a very bad business for you, then," said his friend. "Oh, not at all," the devil replied, "I am going to help him organize it."

J Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living

COMMENT:

Nice.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49191 Feb 12, 2013
BELIEF & FEAR:

"The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear."

J Krishnamurti

QUESTIONS:

1) When do belief and fear arise in the human being?

2) What is belief and what is fear?
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49192 Feb 12, 2013
RELIGIONS & SHRINES:

"Religion is the frozen thought of man out of which they build temples."

J Krishnamurti

COMMENT:

Nice. The age of religion is fast coming to an end. Religion and God (a being of a plane) belong to the inferior planes of consciousness.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49193 Feb 12, 2013
NATURE & MURDER:

"If you lose touch with nature you lose touch with humanity. If there's no relationship with nature then you become a killer; then you kill baby seals, whales, dolphins, and man either for gain, for sport, for food, or for knowledge. Then nature is frightened of you, withdrawing its beauty. You may take long walks in the woods or camp in lovely places but you are a killer and so lose their friendship. You probably are not related to anything to your wife or your husband."

J.Krishnamurti, Krishanmurti's Journal 04 April 1975

COMMENTS:

Non-violent communication, unschooling and sound eugenic practices to procreate offspring with lofty instincts are the imperative needs of the hour at this moment of crisis in the evolution of the terrestrial nature.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#49194 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
That's mere play on words.
The exclusive worship of one God (being) who wants to be the only God over and above all its rivals (other beings) is my definition of monotheism.
Personally speaking, I have sufficient direct experience of this petty stand. This is another matter, however.
No play on words.

You just need to extend your vocabulary, instead of making definitions up.

Frijoles defined monotheism, I defined monolatrism.

From the Torah we can understand that the hebrews believed each nation has its own god(s), so they have their own. At one point until this very days the Hebrews rejected and still do the idea of the existence of other god(s), becoming therefore monotheists.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49195 Feb 12, 2013
CAUSAL NATURE OF QUESTION & ANSWER:

"If we can really understand the problem, the answer will come out of it, because the answer is not separate from the problem."

J.Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

1) Effect is nothing else but the cause in partial or complete manifestation.

2) An effect must be at least as great as its cause in terms of information content.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49196 Feb 12, 2013
THE DING AN SICH & THE QUALITIES:

"The description is not the described; I can describe the mountain, but the description is not the mountain, and if you are caught up in the description, as most people are, then you will never see the mountain."

J.Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

True. The thatness of an objects always eludes the senses and the sense-informed mind. Besides, the instreumental parts of being are so designed so as to adpat themselves to a narrow range of traits of the object under invedstigation and the object in turn reveals only so much of its qualities as the instrument is designed to study.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49197 Feb 12, 2013
TRUE CRITICISM:

"To me, then, true criticism consists in trying to find out the intrinsic worth of the thing itself, and not in attributing a quality to that thing. You attribute a quality to an environment, to an experience, only when you want to derive something from it, when you want to gain or to have power or happiness. Now this destroys true criticism. Your desire is perverted through attributing values, and therefore you cannot see clearly. Instead of trying to see the flower in its original and entire beauty, you look at it through coloured glasses, and therefore you can never see it as it is."

J.Krishnamurti

1933-12-29 1st Public Talk, Adyar, Madras, India.

COMMENT:

The thing-in-itself of an object under investigation cannot be known by reason or by inferential methods. True knowledge of the thatness of an object can only be acquired by the identification in consciousness of the subject with the object.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49198 Feb 12, 2013
OBSERVER-OBSERVED - MONISM:

"The observer is the observed."

Jiddu Krishnamurti

COMMENTS:

True, where the self in the manifestation is concerned but this assertion is false when the ultimate reality is sought to be explained by referring to one entity that serves as the source of the manifestation/cosmos. The ultimate reality is a sytem or a uniifed field with consciousness and energy serving as the obverse and reverse aspects of one reality which is the unified field.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49199 Feb 12, 2013
TRADITION IS DECADENCE:

"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay."

Jiddu Krishnamurti

COMMENT:

True in most ways. Traditions and rituals are futile and a sheer waste of time, energy, material resources and consciousness. Direct experience and realization are everything.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49200 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, Papa.
No offence meant.
I was just conveying to the audience on this august forum the special meaning that I attach to the term based on yogic experiences and intellectual understanding.
Resolved.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49201 Feb 12, 2013
FREEDOM FROM SUFFERING:

"And the point is, is it possible for the mind to be totally free from suffering and yet not become indifferent, callous, irresponsible, but to have that passion, the intensity, the energy that freedom brings, freedom from suffering."

J Krishnamurti, 3rd Public Talk, San Francisco, 1973

COMMENTS:

QUESTION:

How can this superior state of mental existence come about? Give the mechanisms involved.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49202 Feb 12, 2013
Good night from Joel, Cuffe Parade, Mumbai.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#49203 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>

Resolved.
Thank you.

Good night.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49204 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
NATURE & RELIGION:
"When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important."
J Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living
QUESTION:
What more can be added to his view above?
Thats one way to look at it. No doubt that architecture has an effect on world view. As well as written religions vs oral religions.

But another way to look at it is that with the development of the temple (synagogue), the Hebrews were free to worship anywhere instead of favoring one place over another with altars. Arguably that is a more expansive view of nature then confining it to a certain place, rock, mountain, etc etc...

Appreciation and interaction of the natural world isnt necessarily exclusive with the built worship environment.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49205 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
TRADITION IS DECADENCE:
"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay."
Jiddu Krishnamurti
COMMENT:
True in most ways. Traditions and rituals are futile and a sheer waste of time, energy, material resources and consciousness. Direct experience and realization are everything.
traditions often provide the road map to direct experience.

Without the blueprint as a help, often all we are left is the memory of the experience

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#49206 Feb 12, 2013
JOEL wrote:
FREEDOM FROM SUFFERING:
"And the point is, is it possible for the mind to be totally free from suffering and yet not become indifferent, callous, irresponsible, but to have that passion, the intensity, the energy that freedom brings, freedom from suffering."
J Krishnamurti, 3rd Public Talk, San Francisco, 1973
COMMENTS:
QUESTION:
How can this superior state of mental existence come about? Give the mechanisms involved.
Human beings are fundamentally flawed (some more than others).

Evidence A:
the link I posted previously about the 105 year old Zen Master who couldnt keep from foundling his students.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#49207 Feb 12, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
My kidney stones were analyzed and found not be from oxalic acid, so that is not a concern.
Besides, you need a relatively high pH (7-8) for calcium to even be available to plants, and even after incorporation, calcium, like most of the rest of the plant secondary macronutrients, is not very mobile.
The Cl is more of a problem. It results in desiccation and salt burn of the plants, as well as lowered resistance to disease - usually months later. Its a big problem on our landscape here in the NE due to snow management.
rabbee: well a ph of 7, is considered neutral. so we are not necessarly talking about, detectable acidity by the human palate. and calcium oxilate, is not by a rapid accumilation process. but plutonium oxilate in the kidneys, could be a severe problem. since plutonium, acts like calcium in the body.

but calcium or sodium, is not a common substance found in plants either. but oxalic acid, is a common substance found in almost all plants. though the percent, of oxalic acid may vary from vege to vege. rubarb happens to be one plant, with the highest concentrations of oxalic acid.

and the chloride, also damages concrete too. like all, chlorides do. but is less corrosive to, concrete, iron, steel than sodium or potassium chlorides. but naked aluminum, would be kind of iffy.

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