Despite need to export, curbside recycling still beneficial

Most recyclable materials collected in the isles are shipped elsewhere for reuse.

[John W Bienko]

The RECYCLING LOBBY continues to bamboolze the public. It is well known that recycling costs more than manufacturing new products and is definitely NOT beneficial to the environment.. WHEN ALL COSTS ARE INCLUDED.
And in spte of the hype, most of the recycled material ends up in REAL GARBAGE LANDFILL DUMPS.

[PFC SMALL BUSINESS]

Can anyone name one recycling program on God's "green" earth that broke even? Considering the man power and shipping costs:

1. ground transportation on Oahu to the docks and transfer to the ship

2. sea transportation to mainland docks

3. ground transportation from the mainland docks to the plant

4. energy to recycle

Would it be better to put the money toward the incinerator-to-energy plant rather than "rush-to-green?" When the incinerators are up and running, the landfill trash could then be transferred and provide energy to the residents with less pollution than shipping for years.

[John]

First, almost all of Hawaii's garbage/recyclable or not, arrived from somewhere else, usually in a container on a Matson or Horizon ship. Both companies have ships that continue on to China. Empty containers have to be loaded in Honolulu and are discharged in China to be loaded with Chinese exports for the Mainland. There is almost ZERO true cost for loading those containers in Honolulu with recyclables. The containers are going to China anyway.

Do people really think that the cost of recycling aluminum is greater than the cost of mining boxite in Africa transporting it to China, mining coal and transporting it to power stations for the huge amounts of power required to smelt new aluminum...?

I do agree that expanding H-Power and green waste recycling also makes sense (and eliminating the use of inorganic fertilizers on lawns, golf courses and cane fields that are leading creating huge algae blooms and destroying Hawaii's reefs). The goal should be to no longer put anything in a landfill in Hawaii. The land is too valuable, the ground water supply too important.

[Trash Man]

Burn it all at HPower. Recycling is just feel-good nonsense and a huge waste of money.

[Jerry Okamura]

Accentuating the positive to support your position.

[Land Lubber]

John wrote:

First, almost all of Hawaii's garbage/recyclable or not, arrived from somewhere else, usually in a container on a Matson or Horizon ship. Both companies have ships that continue on to China. Empty containers have to be loaded in Honolulu and are discharged in China to be loaded with Chinese exports for the Mainland. There is almost ZERO true cost for loading those containers in Honolulu with recyclables. The containers are going to China anyway.
Do people really think that the cost of recycling aluminum is greater than the cost of mining boxite in Africa transporting it to China, mining coal and transporting it to power stations for the huge amounts of power required to smelt new aluminum...?
I do agree that expanding H-Power and green waste recycling also makes sense (and eliminating the use of inorganic fertilizers on lawns, golf courses and cane fields that are leading creating huge algae blooms and destroying Hawaii's reefs). The goal should be to no longer put anything in a landfill in Hawaii. The land is too valuable, the ground water supply too important.

Interesting info! I agree. Here's my question...Why can't the building industry team up with the UH smarts and come up with recycled building products from the trashed materials? Are there any BIA members and/or UH profs interested in doing the research? I'll contribute some ideas also.

[Environaut]

Sorry to keep getting up on the soap box, but this is an incredibly important issues!

How come no one is protesting about O`ahu's residents paying to ship a minimum of 200,000,000 pounds (100,000 tons) each year of our unprocessed trash wrapped in plastic and placed uncontainerised on open-air barges across the North Pacific Ocean to be put into a Washington State landfill to be converted over time into methane gas to be sold to utility companies there to produce electricity?

Has anyone thought about doing this here instead? Yes, but it's been rejected because it needs a landfill full of garbage turning into something useful.

The $$$$ cost? Whatever the price of diesel fuel happens to be at the time it's pumped which is currently about $110 a ton. A year from now it's expected to hit $140 a ton

The environmental cost in additional greenhouse gas emissions with two new ships added to regular routes? In spills? In trans-shipping bad boogers which can live for day, weeks, even months in anaerobic situations?

What is particularly upsetting on top of all this is that the only common goods which can be shipped back to Hawai`i in vessels like barges are vehicles. Other products have to be containerized.

What a waste - but at least the folks on the Leeward Coast won't have to put up with the stuff in the landfill.

[Environaut]

Whoops!

First paragraph: issues = issue

[Environaut]

Land Lubber:

There is a HUGE industry - lined mostly along the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers - which converts garbage, plastic and metals, into other products.

For example, check out the newer park furniture in many city and state parks. It's made of recycled plastic.

Ask the City's Office of Recycling for a large shopping bag made from plastic bottles by a company located in the United States and employing our citizens.

Including electricty and all the indirect costs, an aluminum can made from recycled containers instead of ore taken from the ground last month costs one tenth of the can made from recently-mined ore.

Recycled paper products cost two thirds less than products from virgin forests. However, the costs to ship the used paper doesn't make sense which is why H-Power is important.

However, the third boiler at the current H-Power plant will primarily be used to ensure that at all times two boilers will be operating rather than increasing capacity by a third.

The new plant is in the design phase right now, but there are problems dealing with alternative fuel sources holding matters up.

All across the North American continent, Waste Management Inc., which runs but does not own the landfill on O`ahu, has begun to convert dozens of its facilities into methane production. What is so ironic about shipping our waste to Washington State is that the landfill is operated by one of WMI's competitors.

[enufalready]

Root problem is the unlimited production of "disposable" consumer goods to satisfy false needs. Corporate consumerism depends upon and profits mightily from externalizing environmental costs such as the pollution from discarded cars, chemicals in the water table, mine tailings and denuded mountains from coal companies. The military does it too, leaving thousands of sites poisoned (Pearl Harbor) in the name of the freedom brand. As each seeks to maximize his/her profit an increasing number of players passes on costs to a society that is more and more burdened to cope. Huge dead zones in oceans and seas, floating plastics covering an area in the Pacific larger than the state of Texas, cities with two story piles of trash (Naples), all reveal a degradation of the environment that threatens.

[Char Siu Bao Girl]

Right on!!!!!!!!!

[Char Siu Bao Girl]

Stop bring in bottled water!!!!!!!!

[Land Lubber]

Environaut
Thanks for the info. You're right about the furniture and decking made out of recycled products. I also learned that a guy in California is converting used shipping containers into houses and even multi-level apartments.

[Hiram]

I would like to modestly propose that we invest in astrophysical research so that we might find a "black hole" and if we are able to find a worm hole to get to the event horizon of this black hole, we will be able to send our trash there and generate energy to run our planet.6127

[Alakainui]

Hiram wrote:

I would like to modestly propose that we invest in astrophysical research so that we might find a "black hole" and if we are able to find a worm hole to get to the event horizon of this black hole, we will be able to send our trash there and generate energy to run our planet.6127

You sound like a money-wasting democrap

[Char Siu Bao Girl]

Gore for VP!!!!!!!!!