New York has a lot at stake in 2008 t...

New York has a lot at stake in 2008 tax debate

There are 25 comments on the Newsday story from Jan 21, 2008, titled New York has a lot at stake in 2008 tax debate. In it, Newsday reports that:

Do you ever get the feeling that your taxes are too low? Probably not. Last year, New Yorkers paid an average of $37.10 in taxes for every $100 earned.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

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hazmat

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1 Jan 21, 2008
Seems no one in charge has an answer to the predicament. And surely only Romney and Guiliani - of the presidents-to-be, have any real life experience in dealing with the tax burden's effect on the people. So we's in deep doo doo.

No one on the scene today has the ability to force the federal government to actually reduce the spending side of the equation in any significant manner. Is there one presidential candidate who would close down US military bases in Europe and the far east? Is there anyone who has the ability to see that we've spent more than we should in relation ato Iraq and Afganistan, and that it is time for us to leave that mess to the native populations.
We need to stop policing the world. The tens of billions we are wasting in that effort would be better spent right here at home, fixing whats broke!
Greg Knott

Evansville, IN

#2 Jan 21, 2008
This article fails to mention the two most powerful arguments for scrapping the current system and implementing the Fairtax as written in HR 25. First, it would instantly make American made products more competitive globally because it eliminates the embedded taxes that make up an average of 20% of the price of all goods and taxes imports at the point of sale. Second, with the prebate on sales tax paid up to poverty level spending it completely untaxes the poor at the federal level. This makes Fairtax more progressive than the current system and since it is also revenue neutral should make it appeal to Republicans and Democrats alike and will pass when the American people become informed about it. New York does have much at stake in the tax debate and should demand that whoever becomes President puts the Fairtax at the top of their agenda.
Mike Ferris

Elgin, IL

#3 Jan 21, 2008
We must first understand that this article deals with current conditions that our tax system allows and how we are taxed on our income and assets.

Our home is a tax deduction, the government allows us to deduct intrest paid on our mortgages. But there are certain conditions that must be met and you must fit into a earnings catagory to be able to use it. Many Americans who are homeowners are discriminated against with this deduction because they are in the last ten years or less of paying off the MORTGAGE. With the lower intrest being paid, you are excused from being able to take this deduction.

This discriminatory deduction is designed for people who owe alot on their house or for people who refinance over and over again to be able to use the deduction allowed.

The FairTax would eliminate all of this problem and keep the government out of how our money is spent. I want to be free of the IRS burden and just make April 15th just another spring day.
Dr Coles

Simi Valley, CA

#4 Jan 21, 2008
The full retirement age is based on maintaining a 50% death rate, so the government does not have to pay any paid for benefits but to half of the investors. The government gets 15% of all wages (up to $102,000) in America and is so incompetent as an investment manager, if we could we would have fired them, they do not invest our money and grow the funds. The problem with Social Security is totally caused by government. No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for. http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/index.html
tkrop

Knoxville, TN

#5 Jan 21, 2008
The FairTax, indeed, should be a top priority for anyone who has this country's best interest at heart. All presidential candidates have tax advisers. When asked about the FairTax these candidates refer to their advisers. The tax advisers in turn tell their candidates misleading and false information about the FairTax because it's passage would mean they'll have to look for another job. Everyone should log onto www.fairtax.org . See for yourself. I for one cannot see why democrat, and most republican members of congress have not already supported the FairTax. The simple answer must be that they do not want to loose the power to use the Tax code to their own benefit through the social engineering tool it provides. We must use our votes to insure passage of the FairTax. It is the only plan that removes the poor from the tax roles, saves Social Security, and provides a bright future for our children
born in the usa

Rockville, MD

#6 Jan 21, 2008
hazmat wrote:
Seems no one in charge has an answer to the predicament. And surely only Romney and Guiliani - of the presidents-to-be, have any real life experience in dealing with the tax burden's effect on the people. So we's in deep doo doo.
No one on the scene today has the ability to force the federal government to actually reduce the spending side of the equation in any significant manner. Is there one presidential candidate who would close down US military bases in Europe and the far east? Is there anyone who has the ability to see that we've spent more than we should in relation ato Iraq and Afganistan, and that it is time for us to leave that mess to the native populations.
We need to stop policing the world. The tens of billions we are wasting in that effort would be better spent right here at home, fixing whats broke!
Ron Paul says he would do all of the above
fairtaxadvocate

Myerstown, PA

#7 Jan 21, 2008
If you would like to receive your total gross paycheck, that is, without any federal deductions, you should investigate the "Fair Tax" bill -- HR-25 and S-1025 -- before the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate, respectively.
The bill would eliminate the following taxes: 1) individual income, 2) corporate income, 3) estate or "death tax", 4) payroll deductions -- Social Security (FICA) and Medicare, 5) capital gains, 6) self- employment, and 7) gift taxes, and replace them with a 23 percent consumption or sales tax on all retail purchases of goods and services, including Internet and catalog sales. Education costs would not be subject to the fair tax.
Each head of household in America would receive a monthly prebate to cover the sales tax on basic necessities, which would be based on the federal poverty level. For example, the poverty level for a family of four is about $25,000 and 23 percent of that is $5,750. This family would receive a prebate check (debit card or direct deposit) in the amount of $479.17 per month.
The debate over whether the rate is 23 percent, calculated as an "inclusive" tax, or 30 percent when considered an "exclusive" tax, has deviated from the discussion of the merits of the proposal. Using the purchase of a toaster for $100 as an example, proponents of the fair tax take 23 percent of $100 and indicate that $23 go to the federal treasury and $77 remain with the retailer. The tax is "included" as part of the retail price.
Opponents claim that since the retailer keeps $77, then the $23 tax is actually 29.9 percent (30 percent) of the $77. The cost is $77 "excluding" the $23 tax.
The proponents counter with a comparison to the federal income tax, where, if your salary is $100 per day and you are in a 25 percent tax bracket,$25 goes to the federal Treasury and your paycheck is $75. The $25 tax is "included" as part of you salary. But computing it as an "exclusive" tax, in other words not part of your salary, the $25 tax would be 33 percent of the $75 salary.
It is calculated that there is an embedded cost of 22 percent in the prices that we now pay for retail purchases. If the fair tax is implemented, the embedded costs to businesses will disappear; and, in order to remain competitive, most companies would lower retail prices an estimated 20 percent, thus negating most of the consumption tax.
The federal tax code contains more than 10,000 pages and is confusing. It turns even those who try to comply into lawbreakers. The fair tax bill is 133 pages in length. Since you will only pay the fair tax on retail sales, there will be no tax on the resale of your home, car, boat, computer, etc.
The states will probably eliminate the individual income, business, corporation and payroll taxes, since their tax systems are modeled after the federal system. The Treasury Department will contract with the 45 states that already have a sales tax and pay the states one- quarter percent on the amount collected.(Notice that the IRS would be eliminated.)
There will be some opposed to the fair tax, these are mostly the lobbyists who game the tax code for the benefit of their clients and contribute to the embedded cost of our purchases.
This concept could be embraced by all political persuasions as it is neither a liberal, nor a moderate, nor a conservative solution; it is not a "red" state or a "blue" state solution but an American (red, white, and blue) solution to a problem that must be addressed.
As of this writing, there are 65 co-sponsors of the bill in the House and four in the Senate. Rep. John Linder of Georgia is the sponsor of HR-25. Information is available at www.fairtax.org
Frank J Stalzer

Yonkers, NY

#8 Jan 21, 2008
Over the years, tax cuts have proven to drive additional revenues into both federal and state treasuries. It happened under Democratic Administrations like Kennedy's and under Republican administrations like Reagan's. Raising taxes only serves to choke economic growth and expansion, at a time when we need to create jobs & economic expansion. The Democrat's solution of redistribution of wealth is old, out dated and inefficient. A pro-growth platform of economic incentives for investment in business, lower taxes and less government are the keys to future growth.
hazmat

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#9 Jan 22, 2008
Mike Ferris wrote:
We must first understand that this article deals with current conditions that our tax system allows and how we are taxed on our income and assets.
Our home is a tax deduction, the government allows us to deduct intrest paid on our mortgages. But there are certain conditions that must be met and you must fit into a earnings catagory to be able to use it. Many Americans who are homeowners are discriminated against with this deduction because they are in the last ten years or less of paying off the MORTGAGE. With the lower intrest being paid, you are excused from being able to take this deduction.
This discriminatory deduction is designed for people who owe alot on their house or for people who refinance over and over again to be able to use the deduction allowed.
The FairTax would eliminate all of this problem and keep the government out of how our money is spent. I want to be free of the IRS burden and just make April 15th just another spring day.
If your interest payments are minimalized so should the deduction -where's the beef?
hazmat

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#10 Jan 22, 2008
fairtaxadvocate

unfortunately the legislative goal is basically to continue to get re-elected ... this requires money and raising campaign funds has become the primary job of our esteemed Congress people.

So money = power and control...and there's the basic reason why absent a voters revolution, the current taxing system will not be changed into any system that removes any power from the legislators.

Further there are well endowed lobbies that reject any such changes.
Closing down the IRS is a dream that has no chance on becoming reality.
Already taxed out

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#11 Jan 22, 2008
the "fairtax" or "national sales tax" is a SCAM. what it will do is HURT THE POOR and WORKING CLASS.

right now the poor/working/ lower middle class pay LITTLE tax. an example: I am a working class person (a mechanic) made $53,000 last year, the TAX which came out of my check was a little over $3000 (married, family of 5, and a HOMEOWNER), just did my taxes. between the deductions (itemized( for property taxes and mortgage interest) and the child deduction) brought the TAX on my taxable income to $700, figure in the child credit, energy credit, and retirment credit taxes were ZERO. then further down on the 1040 you have the additional credits(EIC (I dont qualify for it), child credit etc) equals total credit of $4800, my return.....see little or NO TAXES to the working class.

with the "fair tax", I may have my full paycheck (still minus STATE INCOME TAX) but ANYTHING I purchase will be TAXED at a rate of 23%, to include a Car( if I had to get one), a HOUSE, perscription drugs, jeans, milk etc. so the Additional $3000 if I use it to purchase ANYTHING will COST ME $690, plus ANY OTHER PURCHASES (spend $400 for food shopping each month ($92/month=1104 yearly in ADDITIONAL TAXES) and lets hope I dont need a transmition on my car.

again the "fairtax" or "national sales tax" is a scam that will HURT THE POOR nad WORKING CLASS,,why do you think the RICH guys( like FORBES are pushing it.
chefantwon

Miami, FL

#12 Jan 23, 2008
Already taxed out wrote:
the "fairtax" or "national sales tax" is a SCAM. what it will do is HURT THE POOR and WORKING CLASS.
right now the poor/working/ lower middle class pay LITTLE tax. an example: I am a working class person (a mechanic) made $53,000 last year, the TAX which came out of my check was a little over $3000 (married, family of 5, and a HOMEOWNER), just did my taxes. between the deductions (itemized( for property taxes and mortgage interest) and the child deduction) brought the TAX on my taxable income to $700, figure in the child credit, energy credit, and retirment credit taxes were ZERO. then further down on the 1040 you have the additional credits(EIC (I dont qualify for it), child credit etc) equals total credit of $4800, my return.....see little or NO TAXES to the working class.
with the "fair tax", I may have my full paycheck (still minus STATE INCOME TAX) but ANYTHING I purchase will be TAXED at a rate of 23%, to include a Car( if I had to get one), a HOUSE, perscription drugs, jeans, milk etc. so the Additional $3000 if I use it to purchase ANYTHING will COST ME $690, plus ANY OTHER PURCHASES (spend $400 for food shopping each month ($92/month=1104 yearly in ADDITIONAL TAXES) and lets hope I dont need a transmition on my car.
again the "fairtax" or "national sales tax" is a scam that will HURT THE POOR nad WORKING CLASS,,why do you think the RICH guys( like FORBES are pushing it.
Only $3,000.00 in taxes? I don't think your looking at all of the taxes taken out of your check. Its not only the FICA, but the FITW and the medicare taxes. I made about 35K last year and had more than 6K in federal taxes taken out of my check. Add in another $1,600 in state and local taxes.

Under the fair tax, that 6K that I taken out of my check would be mine to spend as I will. Also, you seem to forget the prebate which in your case is about $8,700.00 a year.(see fairtax calculator for specifics) That means you have an extra 8K to do as you want.

Remember there is about 22% imbedded taxes in everything we buy, when its with the fairtax prices would be basically the same as they are now.

Please do your reasearch and find out for yourself how the fairtax would effect your family. Check out http://www.fairtax.org for details.
Already taxed out

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#13 Jan 23, 2008
oh I've done my research,, and yes that 3k was only the federal tax added to that was fica/medicare for another 4k.

you quote:
"Remember there is about 22% imbedded taxes in everything we buy, when its with the fairtax prices would be basically the same as they are now"

but the fact is prices will NOT fall at all and the 23% the quote for the ftax is actualyy 30%,,,ie an item that is $100 will cost you $130.

the BIGGEST down fall on the "flat/fair" tax is it is on EVERYTHING to include food, and medicine,,,and includes HOUSING, that $400,000(long island) house that you WANT, not only do you NEED $80,000(at least) for a downpayment, but you will ALSO NEED $92,000 for the SALES TAX ( the supposed "fair tax"),,not very fair is it

want a new car just a basic chevy (20k and under) ADD $4500 just in the "fair" tax.

this tax will hurt the poor, and the working class.

oh and by the way,, think about the SENIORs who are recieving a retirement (ss, or pension, or the untaxed disability) who will NOW HAVE AN ADDED 23-30% LIABILITY.. this is the way people get screwed, the fairtax is snakeoil
Allen

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#14 Jan 23, 2008
Hazmat,
If you like the Fair Tax, push for it. Prohibition was repealled why can't the income tax?
Already taxed, it is obvious you haven't done enough research.
1. Competition will push prices down when business no longer have income taxes and compliance costs imbedded in the price of goods under the Fair Tax.
2. Every NEW item is taxed and see item one about bottom line cost of items increasing under the Fair Tax.
3. Hurt the poor? The poor are totally untaxed under the Fair Tax as they are now. The Fair Tax sets up a prebate for ALL households. Money to cover all the taxes up to the poverty level.
4. Seniors? see item 1 on price changes and see item 3 on the prebate.
Sorry your arguments don't hold water and do some more research.
I see this all the time, people who understand the Fair Tax support it.
If your congress person doesn't support it inform them or vote for someone that does.
Hazmat, that is how we change this broken tax system.
jose

Baldwin, NY

#15 Jan 23, 2008
fairtaxadvocate wrote:
If you would like to receive your total gross paycheck, that is, without any federal deductions, you should investigate the "Fair Tax" bill -- HR-25 and S-1025 -- before the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate, respectively.
The bill would eliminate the following taxes: 1) individual income, 2) corporate income, 3) estate or "death tax", 4) payroll deductions -- Social Security (FICA) and Medicare, 5) capital gains, 6) self- employment, and 7) gift taxes, and replace them with a 23 percent consumption or sales tax on all retail purchases of goods and services, including Internet and catalog sales. Education costs would not be subject to the fair tax.
Each head of household in America would receive a monthly prebate to cover the sales tax on basic necessities, which would be based on the federal poverty level. For example, the poverty level for a family of four is about $25,000 and 23 percent of that is $5,750. This family would receive a prebate check (debit card or direct deposit) in the amount of $479.17 per month.
The debate over whether the rate is 23 percent, calculated as an "inclusive" tax, or 30 percent when considered an "exclusive" tax, has deviated from the discussion of the merits of the proposal. Using the purchase of a toaster for $100 as an example, proponents of the fair tax take 23 percent of $100 and indicate that $23 go to the federal treasury and $77 remain with the retailer. The tax is "included" as part of the retail price.
Opponents claim that since the retailer keeps $77, then the $23 tax is actually 29.9 percent (30 percent) of the $77. The cost is $77 "excluding" the $23 tax.
The proponents counter with a comparison to the federal income tax, where, if your salary is $100 per day and you are in a 25 percent tax bracket,$25 goes to the federal Treasury and your paycheck is $75. The $25 tax is "included" as part of you salary. But computing it as an "exclusive" tax, in other words not part of your salary, the $25 tax would be 33 percent of the $75 salary.
It is calculated that there is an embedded cost of 22 percent in the prices that we now pay for retail purchases. If the fair tax is implemented, the embedded costs to businesses will disappear; and, in order to remain competitive, most companies would lower retail prices an estimated 20 percent, thus negating most of the consumption tax.
The federal tax code contains more than 10,000 pages and is confusing. It turns even those who try to comply into lawbreakers. The fair tax bill is 133 pages in length. Since you will only pay the fair tax on retail sales, there will be no tax on the resale of your home, car, boat, computer, etc.
The states will probably eliminate the individual income, business, corporation and payroll taxes, since their tax systems are modeled after the federal system. The Treasury Department will contract with the 45 states that already have a sales tax and pay the states one- quarter percent on the amount collected.(Notice that the IRS would be eliminated.)
There will be some opposed to the fair tax, these are mostly the lobbyists who game the tax code for the benefit of their clients and contribute to the embedded cost of our purchases.
This concept could be embraced by all political persuasions as it is neither a liberal, nor a moderate, nor a conservative solution; it is not a "red" state or a "blue" state solution but an American (red, white, and blue) solution to a problem that must be addressed.
As of this writing, there are 65 co-sponsors of the bill in the House and four in the Senate. Rep. John Linder of Georgia is the sponsor of HR-25. Information is available at www.fairtax.org
Or just become an Illegal Alien and receive all the benefits free ! CHUMPS !
ralph williams

Bedminster, NJ

#16 Jan 23, 2008
Reduce capital gains taxes to 10%, cut corporate taxes, eliminate the death tax (estate tax), allow our country to grow and prosper, greater tax revenues will flow into the U.S. treasury,to the benefit of all our citizens, jobs will multiply; and the USA will be a stronger and wealthier nation. Also, natural resources that made our country wealthy; oil and gas must be made available by the new, environmentally responsible technology of clean drilling techniques, ANWAR can not be off limits; with the Russians drilling a few miles away.
Already taxed out

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#17 Jan 24, 2008
allen,,

yes I have done the research, and a LOT OF IT.

your points:
1. Competition will push prices down when business no longer have income taxes and compliance costs imbedded in the price of goods under the Fair Tax.
THIS IS NOT CORRECT, YES IT IS WAS THE ADVOCATES ARE PUSHING, but its is just not true, prices will not come down at all, in fact prices are likely to go up,, why,, becasue EVERYTHING NEW is taxed, to include ALL THE BUILDING materials on a NEW HOME, plus ANYONE wanting to seek the american dream of OWNING a home will have to come up with AN ADDITIONAL 23-30%

3. Hurt the poor? The poor are totally untaxed under the Fair Tax as they are now. The Fair Tax sets up a prebate for ALL households. Money to cover all the taxes up to the poverty level THE POOR ARE TOTALLY UNTAXED NOW, if you look at my first post (post11) you will see that as a WORKING CLASS person making 50K my tax return was about 5k, in otherwords ZERO tax liability (yes I am married 3 kids and a homeowner(all writeoffs).

seniors will get hurt, yes they will get a "prebait" but they will still be PAYING 23-30%,,and the DISABLED (ie a former nypd officer on 3/4 disabliity(all UNTAXED) will now have to pay 23-30% ADDITIONAL.

this tax will be on everything, meaning your (lets say)$400/ month grocery bill will now be $500/month , the ADDED "fair" federal sales tax will also be on every gallon of GAS, need your furnace replaced, be prepaired to pay MORE, need a car add 30% to the original cost(plus title, regi etc)

yes the "prebait" will help but in the overall,,the poor/working class will get HURT. I understand they push this IDEA that it will work, but it wont. the rich will get richer,(no more tax on ALL THE INTEREST they earn),,but the poor/working class have litte to no SAVINGS.
Already taxed out

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#18 Jan 24, 2008
oh and remember that InCOME tax (to include STATE) is taken out AFTER ss deductions, so YOU WILL END UP PAYING MORE STATE INCOME TAX, puting you in a HIGHER tax bracket at the state level
Allen

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#19 Jan 24, 2008
Already taxed,
Your whole arguement disputes the imbedded taxes and compliance costs in the prices of goods.
The well educated economists, who want a better economy and who developed the Fair Tax plan (not a politician), have found that on average 22% of the prices of goods is their income taxes and the cost of complying to those taxes (ie tax accountants and paperwork).
So, with those costs gone why would the corp. not lower the prices? More profit? Not likely, they are already are making profit on their widgets now.
Market competition will push the prices down and the maker will not loose a dime.
So the probability that prices will not go down under the Fair Tax is almost nil.
The prebate will untax all poor to include seniors and disabled.

As far as the rich, let them keep there money, so they can buy more and keep our economy going. If you have a problem with their tax share. Most of them pay it. The ones that don't are taking advantage of the current screwed up system.
Allen

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#20 Jan 24, 2008
Under the current system you are a slave to the Federal gov. up to almost 50% of your hard earning.
You are working for the fed govt half the year and yourself the rest.
Let me explain: Before you get a dime of your paycheck the fed gets about 30% of it (FICA, FIT, Medicare).
Now you got what's left.
You go to the store and get all you need.(Corporations don't pay income taxes you do) 22% of the price of those goods you bought is corporate taxes and compliance costs.
So, that works out to about 50% of all you earned goes to the fed govt.
These figures may be little high to the tune of about 10%.
This doesn't account for state and local taxes.
Hmmmm
Lets compare:
50% under the current Fed income tax system.
23% under the Fair Tax.
Need I say more?
Oh, the prebate will drop the Fair Tax percentage even more.

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