Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 20 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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No OEA Indoctrination

Piqua, OH

#23829 Mar 12, 2013
Should the White House control what your kids learn?
By Stanley Kurtz
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/07/sho...
Editor's note: this piece is adapted from "Spreading the Wealth: How Obama is Robbing the Suburbs to Pay for the Cities " (Sentinel HC August 2012).
The core of the hard-left’s education agenda – a program shared by Obama, Ayers, and Darling-Hammond alike – has three parts: 1) a politicized curriculum that promotes leftist notions of “social justice,” 2) reducing “disparate outcomes” between students in different districts by undercutting standards, and 3) a redistribution of suburban education funding to less-well-off urban schools. Achieving these goals on a broad scale requires the federal government to usurp local control of K-12 schooling.
question

Miamisburg, OH

#23830 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
If you are afraid to address all that goes into a good hiring for the employee and the employer then you will be able to find a number that works.
You have no more of an idea than I would how many are qualified nor how many are unqualified. Making blanket assumptions serves no one's best interest.
You are right that not all 900 would be qualified applicants, but the greater the pool of applicants, the more likely we will enjoy a better selection of qualified applicants.
Now about how their students faired, that would go a long way towards determining how well they teach.
For instance if the teacher works with normal kids and puts 80% of her class in the top two tiers without cheating, that would be something that would be worth much more than someone who consistently puts their children in the bottom tow tiers..
We are not talking about hiring a teacher, this 5th grade teacher that is requesting information about what the pay and benefits are for the teaching position, is already in the teaching position so there isn’t anyone applying for the job.

(unless you wish to fire the teacher and open the position up for new applications, is that what you want?)

This 5th grade teacher is teaching a gifted class of students that have been together in a gifted class since 3th grade and all students score well above any of the numbers you are using to talk about the failing students in the district.

So what will the pay be for this teacher?
Harmful Illusions

Piqua, OH

#23831 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So what is the difference between now and 2008? Could it be less money in the district, 3 superintendent changes, multiple treasurers, a complete removal of administrative office support, multiple principals leaving, etc. The list is endless - so how is this new board helping? Let's see, they are removing electives, giving incentives to teachers to retire early, making all teachers anxious about their jobs, continually telling students they are not good enough (oh - that's Just Watching saying how stupid our kids are - with the Boards blessing I'm sure), etc. How is this a healthy environment for our students?
Our new board is implementing our children first budgeting, focusing on a higher achievement level for all students; And educating Springboro parents, and school district voters, of the harmful illusions of the status quo tunnel vision of collective, excellent with distinction ratings, and the harm to our children's future just continuing with "business as usual" just like the good old days before the 2009 school board election of Kelly Kohls,
our first ever reform-minded board representative.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23832 Mar 12, 2013
You asked how much a fifth grade teacher should be paid, you left out the rest.

What were the spread on this teacher's students results on the OAA Math test the past three years?

If this person has had the same gifted children the past three those numbers in and of themselves would answer the the bulk of the questions you pose.
Harmful Illusions

Piqua, OH

#23833 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So why are we doing worse now than in 2008?
Dispelling the harmful illusions of over-rated excellence ratings is just the beginning of educating Springboro by our new reform minded BOE majority... we are on our way, but there is a lot of work to be done by our school superintendent to educate his staff of our school district's new philosophy of children first
budgeting.....

Bestowing the label of excellence on districts that do little to provide for students beyond basic proficiency helps no one. Even in elite, affluent suburbs, communities are lulled into complacent acceptance of the status quo even as their children perform at a level nowhere near excellent. This phenomenon is nicely explained by Jay Greene, coauthor of
When the Best Is Mediocre:

State accountability systems and the desire to rationalize the lack of quality options have encouraged the elites to compare their affluent suburban districts to the large urban ones in their state. These inappropriate comparisons have falsely reassured them that their own school districts are doing well. This false reassurance has also perhaps undermined the desire among the elites to engage in dramatic education reform. As long as the elites hold onto the belief that their own school districts are excellent, they have little desire to push for the kinds of significant systemic reforms that might improve their districts as well as the large urban districts. They may wish the urban districts well and hope matters improve, but their taste for bold reform is limited by a false contentment with their own situation.

Radio audiences laugh at the imaginary Lake Wobegon, where ALL students are above average, but Ohio has taken things to a level that some have described as Lake Wobegon on steroids, and the damage to the educational system is becoming evident. It is Time to take an honest look at state standards and to see how these “excellent” districts are truly performing. Parents, policymakers, and the general public no longer can afford to pretend that the emperor is clothed. It is time to take a look at the ugly, naked truth about the accountability system in Ohio.– www.oagc.com
miller thyme

Piqua, OH

#23834 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Putting kids first means we first and foremost provide them with an actual education, not a semantic trip through the education industry pipeline
As is evidenced by the results of our test scores produced on the Ohio Achievement Assessment and the report on our high school that was commissioned by the Superintendent, we have much work to do.
Our teachers, regardless of how good or bad , are laboring in a system that does not produce the desired results. We simply cannot continue to push forward to our high school children who get less and less of the foundational learning each year.
Digging in anyones heels is always a bad idea, it cost one their mobility of action. Drawing lines in the sand is a false option, the line is arbitrary and can be moved at a whim.
Alacrity is what is required, not intransigence.
2000 plus kids who are not getting the program also cannot wait for another year to go by with no assistance from thinking adults.
Alacrity is what is required?

Alls ima saying is, can you expand on that?

Not intransigence?

Can you translate?

Ima just a simple one, protecting union best interests best as I can.
Parents Are Awesome

Piqua, OH

#23836 Mar 12, 2013
Common Core: Intrusive Data Tracking
The Common Core ensures that the states build expensive high-tech systems that will track student performance and other personal data and provide that information to the federal government.“Hopefully, some day, we can track children from preschool to high school and from high school to college and college to career.”
- U.S. Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, from a June 8, 2009 speech
Common Core: Exorbitant Price Tag
The unfunded mandates associated with the Common Core are open-ended in areas such as professional development, new textbooks and instructional materials, testing, and data-tracking systems. A recent study shows implementation will cost $16 billion or more nationwide, with about 90 percent of this paid for by states and local districts, despite the $4.35 billion Race to the Top grants. The Common Core fuels a money pot of tax dollars going to pre-selected vendors.
Where Things Stand
In the Nation – Only a few states have turned a cold shoulder to the federal grants and waivers requiring Common Core.
&#9679; Texas, Nebraska, and Alaska refused to participate.
&#9679; Indiana’s Senate Education Committee voted to delay implementation of the Common Core until after it was reviewed by a study committee.
&#9679; South Carolina has legislation pending to pull out of the Common Core supported by the Governor.
&#9679; Virginia has pulled out of the Common Core, and Minnesota has refused to sign on to the math portion.
&#9679; Utah is holding legislative hearings on withdrawing from Common Core.
&#9679; South Dakota has slowed down the implementation of the Common Core with the passage of a bill that requires public hearings around the state.
In Georgia – State School Superintendent Kathy Cox and Governor Sonny Perdue committed Georgia to the Common Core upon signing the Race to the Top grant application in January 2010. In July 2010 the State Board of Education officially adopted the Common Core, only one month after the content standards were released in English Language Arts and Math. In the fall of 2010, Georgia agreed to become a “governing state” of the PARCC assessment consortium, meaning Georgia will implement these tests starting in 2014-15, though the tests are yet unseen and their costs unknown. Current State School Superintendent John Barge campaigned against Race to the Top, but upon taking office, he embraced it and the Common Core.
Sub-standard Standards of the Common Core
English Language Arts (ELA) Standards – Dr. Sandra Stotsky of the University of Arkansas served on the Common Core Validation Committee but refused to sign off on the ELA standards because of poor quality, empty skill sets, the de-emphasis on literature, and low reading levels, such as 8th grade levels for 12th grade students. Even the Fordham Institute – a Common Core proponent -- gave Georgia’s current ELA standards higher marks than the Common Core.
Math Standards – Dr. James Milgram of Stanford University, the only mathematician on the Common Core Validation Committee, refused to sign off, stating,“It’s almost a joke to think students [who master the common standards] would be ready for math at a university.”
Next on the Common Core Agenda – Expect the feds to aggressively push adoption of national standards in science and social studies, just as they have in English and math.
Take Action
Tell your legislators to stop Race to the Top mandates and the Common Core. Get connected at www.stopcommoncore.com
Parents Are Awesome

Piqua, OH

#23838 Mar 12, 2013
Common Core: Intrusive Data Tracking
The Common Core ensures that the states build expensive high-tech systems that will track student performance and other personal data and provide that information to the federal government.“Hopefully, some day, we can track children from preschool to high school and from high school to college and college to career.”
- U.S. Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, from a June 8, 2009 speech
Common Core: Exorbitant Price Tag
The unfunded mandates associated with the Common Core are open-ended in areas such as professional development, new textbooks and instructional materials, testing, and data-tracking systems. A recent study shows implementation will cost $16 billion or more nationwide, with about 90 percent of this paid for by states and local districts, despite the $4.35 billion Race to the Top grants. The Common Core fuels a money pot of tax dollars going to pre-selected vendors.
Where Things Stand
In the Nation – Only a few states have turned a cold shoulder to the federal grants and waivers requiring Common Core.
&#9679; Texas, Nebraska, and Alaska refused to participate.
&#9679; Indiana’s Senate Education Committee voted to delay implementation of the Common Core until after it was reviewed by a study committee.
&#9679; South Carolina has legislation pending to pull out of the Common Core supported by the Governor.
&#9679; Virginia has pulled out of the Common Core, and Minnesota has refused to sign on to the math portion.
&#9679; Utah is holding legislative hearings on withdrawing from Common Core.
&#9679; South Dakota has slowed down the implementation of the Common Core with the passage of a bill that requires public hearings around the state.
In Georgia – State School Superintendent Kathy Cox and Governor Sonny Perdue committed Georgia to the Common Core upon signing the Race to the Top grant application in January 2010. In July 2010 the State Board of Education officially adopted the Common Core, only one month after the content standards were released in English Language Arts and Math. In the fall of 2010, Georgia agreed to become a “governing state” of the PARCC assessment consortium, meaning Georgia will implement these tests starting in 2014-15, though the tests are yet unseen and their costs unknown. Current State School Superintendent John Barge campaigned against Race to the Top, but upon taking office, he embraced it and the Common Core.
Sub-standard Standards of the Common Core
English Language Arts (ELA) Standards – Dr. Sandra Stotsky of the University of Arkansas served on the Common Core Validation Committee but refused to sign off on the ELA standards because of poor quality, empty skill sets, the de-emphasis on literature, and low reading levels, such as 8th grade levels for 12th grade students. Even the Fordham Institute – a Common Core proponent -- gave Georgia’s current ELA standards higher marks than the Common Core.
Math Standards – Dr. James Milgram of Stanford University, the only mathematician on the Common Core Validation Committee, refused to sign off, stating,“It’s almost a joke to think students [who master the common standards] would be ready for math at a university.”
Next on the Common Core Agenda – Expect the feds to aggressively push adoption of national standards in science and social studies, just as they have in English and math.
Take Action
Tell your legislators to stop Race to the Top mandates and the Common Core. Get connected at www.stopcommoncore.com
Parents Are Awesome

Piqua, OH

#23840 Mar 12, 2013
-continued -
Common Core: Intrusive Data Tracking
The Common Core ensures that the states build expensive high-tech systems that will track student performance and other personal data and provide that information to the federal government.“Hopefully, some day, we can track children from preschool to high school and from high school to college and college to career.”
- U.S. Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, from a June 8, 2009 speech
Common Core: Exorbitant Price Tag
The unfunded mandates associated with the Common Core are open-ended in areas such as professional development, new textbooks and instructional materials, testing, and data-tracking systems. A recent study shows implementation will cost $16 billion or more nationwide, with about 90 percent of this paid for by states and local districts, despite the $4.35 billion Race to the Top grants. The Common Core fuels a money pot of tax dollars going to pre-selected vendors.
Where Things Stand
In the Nation – Only a few states have turned a cold shoulder to the federal grants and waivers requiring Common Core.
&#9679; Texas, Nebraska, and Alaska refused to participate.
&#9679; Indiana’s Senate Education Committee voted to delay implementation of the Common Core until after it was reviewed by a study committee.
&#9679; South Carolina has legislation pending to pull out of the Common Core supported by the Governor.
&#9679; Virginia has pulled out of the Common Core, and Minnesota has refused to sign on to the math portion.
&#9679; Utah is holding legislative hearings on withdrawing from Common Core.
&#9679; South Dakota has slowed down the implementation of the Common Core with the passage of a bill that requires public hearings around the state.
In Georgia – State School Superintendent Kathy Cox and Governor Sonny Perdue committed Georgia to the Common Core upon signing the Race to the Top grant application in January 2010. In July 2010 the State Board of Education officially adopted the Common Core, only one month after the content standards were released in English Language Arts and Math. In the fall of 2010, Georgia agreed to become a “governing state” of the PARCC assessment consortium, meaning Georgia will implement these tests starting in 2014-15, though the tests are yet unseen and their costs unknown. Current State School Superintendent John Barge campaigned against Race to the Top, but upon taking office, he embraced it and the Common Core.
Sub-standard Standards of the Common Core
English Language Arts (ELA) Standards – Dr. Sandra Stotsky of the University of Arkansas served on the Common Core Validation Committee but refused to sign off on the ELA standards because of poor quality, empty skill sets, the de-emphasis on literature, and low reading levels, such as 8th grade levels for 12th grade students. Even the Fordham Institute – a Common Core proponent -- gave Georgia’s current ELA standards higher marks than the Common Core.
Math Standards – Dr. James Milgram of Stanford University, the only mathematician on the Common Core Validation Committee, refused to sign off, stating,“It’s almost a joke to think students [who master the common standards] would be ready for math at a university.”
Next on the Common Core Agenda – Expect the feds to aggressively push adoption of national standards in science and social studies, just as they have in English and math.
Take Action
Tell your legislators to stop Race to the Top mandates and the Common Core. Get connected at www.stopcommoncore.com
Really

Piqua, OH

#23842 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
I suppose if you like lying to yourself, then the status quo is okay by you.
That is fine, it is all about choice.
I happen to choose actual achievement over candy league soccer trophies.
But whatever floats your boat.
We still have over 2000 plus kids in this district that are not getting the education we are all funding.
If you care to refute any of the arguments I have made, please feel free to publish your alternative reading.
Somehow, you never seem to be able to come up with that angle.
From all of your stats about the last 4 years, I'm beginning to believe we are getting exactly the education we are funding!
Really

Piqua, OH

#23843 Mar 12, 2013
Harmful Illusions wrote:
<quoted text>
Dispelling the harmful illusions of over-rated excellence ratings is just the beginning of educating Springboro by our new reform minded BOE majority... we are on our way, but there is a lot of work to be done by our school superintendent to educate his staff of our school district's new philosophy of children first
budgeting.....
Where are we on our way to??? If the goal is to increase test scores how is that accomplished? What specifically is the board doing to improve the education in Springboro? What are they doing for the gifted students to further their education, what are they doing for the special needs students to help them? PSEO has always been an option so the board hasn't done anything new there, AP classes are far and few between based on other school districts, challenging electives are being removed at the HS level, etc.

Everything I have seen so far indicates the board is: 1st: doing everytyhing they can to reduce spending (regardless of effects) and 2nd: doing what they have to based on state requirements (buying books for common core standards, increasing technology to support all-electronic testing in 2014, etc.). What new and innovative ideas have the board come up with to actually improve the education in Springboro? And no, trying to put in a charter school does not count - for the simple reason that they did not have a reason to put the charter school in, they were only considering the cost effectiveness of the charter school and not the purpose of the school (again, money came first above students).

Please be specific.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23844 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are we on our way to??? If the goal is to increase test scores how is that accomplished? What specifically is the board doing to improve the education in Springboro? What are they doing for the gifted students to further their education, what are they doing for the special needs students to help them? PSEO has always been an option so the board hasn't done anything new there, AP classes are far and few between based on other school districts, challenging electives are being removed at the HS level, etc.
Everything I have seen so far indicates the board is: 1st: doing everytyhing they can to reduce spending (regardless of effects) and 2nd: doing what they have to based on state requirements (buying books for common core standards, increasing technology to support all-electronic testing in 2014, etc.). What new and innovative ideas have the board come up with to actually improve the education in Springboro? And no, trying to put in a charter school does not count - for the simple reason that they did not have a reason to put the charter school in, they were only considering the cost effectiveness of the charter school and not the purpose of the school (again, money came first above students).
Please be specific.
How about what the teachers can do differently, any ideas.

For all the professional knowledge available, the thoughts and solutions don't seem to be forthcoming.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23845 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
From all of your stats about the last 4 years, I'm beginning to believe we are getting exactly the education we are funding!
Actually, we are spending way to much for the return provided.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23846 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
You asked how much a fifth grade teacher should be paid, you left out the rest.
What were the spread on this teacher's students results on the OAA Math test the past three years?
If this person has had the same gifted children the past three those numbers in and of themselves would answer the the bulk of the questions you pose.
Still waiting on the results
93% and above----
85%- 92.99%------
75%- 84.99%------
63%- 74.99%------
Below 63%-------

Just fill in the blanks.

I would expect the gifted class to be residing in the top two tiers
Question JW

Milford, OH

#23847 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Still waiting on the results
93% and above----
85%- 92.99%------
75%- 84.99%------
63%- 74.99%------
Below 63%-------
Just fill in the blanks.
I would expect the gifted class to be residing in the top two tiers
Why can't you give the people An answer? You keep adding something new to your list of requirements when they fulfill your previous details needed. Just answer the question in a dollar amount, how much should said teacher get paid? Don't give us a bunch of crap about where their test scores fall, answer according to your previous requirements on which people have you. Because you love stats so much here is one for you: chances Just Watching gives a dollar amount in a post about what a teacher should make...0/100 or 0%
Just Watching

Dayton, OH

#23848 Mar 12, 2013
Question JW wrote:
<quoted text>
Why can't you give the people An answer? You keep adding something new to your list of requirements when they fulfill your previous details needed. Just answer the question in a dollar amount, how much should said teacher get paid? Don't give us a bunch of crap about where their test scores fall, answer according to your previous requirements on which people have you. Because you love stats so much here is one for you: chances Just Watching gives a dollar amount in a post about what a teacher should make...0/100 or 0%
I think all teachers should make a minimum of $85,000.00.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23849 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So let me get this straight, you are implying that if a teacher teaches honor students that get high grades on their OAAs, that teacher is worth more than a teacher that teaches non-honor students??? Exactly how do you compare apples to apples???
Yes, there are fewer teachers that are certified to teach say A/P Physics than there are to teach third grade in elementary school. Supply and demand will make the teacher with the needed and scarcer skill set more valuable.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23850 Mar 12, 2013
5th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 5th grade
.
Limited.......... 20 Students
Limited.......... 25% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -17 correct answers =(0-33% correct)
.
Basic..........35 Students
Basic ..........40% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--18 - 23 correct answers =(34-44% correct)
.
Proficient........107 Students
Proficient........54% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -24-32 correct answers =(46-62% correct)
.
Accelerated.....76 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--33 -37 correct answers =(63-71% correct)
.
Advanced........213 Students
Advanced........82% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--38 -52 correct answers =(73-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......162 Students
Percentage of Students.....36% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......95 Students
Percentage of Students.....21% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........90 Students
Percentage of Students.....20% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........77 Students
Percentage of Students.....17% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....27 Students
Percentage of Students....6% receiving A
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23851 Mar 12, 2013
4th Grade 2010-2011 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 4th grade
.
Limited.......... 8 Students
Limited.......... 25% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -16 correct answers =(0-31% correct)
.
Basic..........32 Students
Basic ..........57% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--17 - 24 correct answers =(33-46% correct)
.
Proficient........108 Students
Proficient........60% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -25-36 correct answers =(48-69% correct)
.
Accelerated.....104 Students
Accelerated.....76% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--37 -42 correct answers =(63-81% correct)
.
Advanced........176 Students
Advanced........83% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--43 -52 correct answers =(83-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......104 Students
Percentage of Students.....24% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......76 Students
Percentage of Students.....18% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........93 Students
Percentage of Students.....22% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........98 Students
Percentage of Students.....23% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....57 Students
Percentage of Students....13% receiving A
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23852 Mar 12, 2013
3rd Grade 2009-2010 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......52 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 3rd grade
.
Limited.......... 14 Students
Limited.......... 39% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -24 correct answers =(0-46% correct)
.
Basic..........46 Students
Basic ..........55% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--25 - 32 correct answers =(48-62% correct)
.
Proficient........158 Students
Proficient........72% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -33-41 correct answers =(63-79% correct)
.
Accelerated.....124 Students
Accelerated.....84% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--42 -45 correct answers =(81-87% correct)
.
Advanced........124 Students
Advanced........93% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--46 -52 correct answers =(88-100% correct)

.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......59 Students
Percentage of Students.....13% receiving F

D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......83 Students
Percentage of Students.....18% receiving D

C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........127 Students
Percentage of Students.....27% receiving C

B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........149 Students
Percentage of Students.....32% receiving B

A..... 93% correct answers and above.....46 Students
Percentage of Students....10% receiving A

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