Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31925 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23058 Jan 17, 2013
Mixed wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't have a problem that the BOE is essentially giving this company 15,000 dollars? This company is gonna say yes no matter what....I have a problem with them just giving a company 15,000 dollars.
What is wrong with investigating the potential here in Springboro? I sat in the room with these guys during Budget and Finance Committee meetings watching them question and delve into answers to find the real piece of information they were looking to obtain. They drove past the platitudes, the pat answers, the answers that sounded good until you realize they said nothing, to get to the point. I hardly think they will let you down now in their investigation of the negatives and the positives of the concept.

If money is such an issue, were you among those asking the Superintendent to collect the $90,000 or so owed to the district from Springboro Youth Basketball?

Did you protest the fact that the Superintendent waived that $90,000 or so?

Did you bother to look at the new contract Springboro Youth Basketball received?

Did you come out to demand accountability when the Boosters found out that hundreds of thousands of dollars had disappeared from their accounts? Money that was supposed to go to offset the cost of our sporting program that vanished because no one was doing the due diligence that the job required.

Are you among those who will gladly spend an additional $50,000 to pass a renewal levy without batting an eye?

I am not only Just Watching, but also just curious.
cheese on the cracker

Dayton, OH

#23059 Jan 17, 2013
parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm a parent of a number of children, all still in this district. There's a lingering collective problem within ours schools we as a community really have to understand. By far the majority of teachers in Springboro are tremendous and creative, as well as super individuals. At the same time we have a number of teachers who don't belong in the classroom for a lot of reasons. Some of them may have made the wrong career decision and may not put alot of heart into what they're doing. Some of them are obviously burnt out.-(we have known one who could do almost nothing to hide this burnout). Worst of all, there was a certain teacher who have flaunted in front of their classroom that because they're tenured, they could never lose their job.

If there was any way this very small minority of bad teachers could be sorted out and fired, I'm sure our regular community school district would be able to raise our childrens bar from proficient to something alot better.
Please forward constructive suggestions such as this to [email protected]
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23060 Jan 17, 2013
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test

Reading
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%

If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Reading.

Springboro had 88 students out of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.

Math
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%

If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Math.

Springboro had 40 students our of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.

They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
reality

Dayton, OH

#23061 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Ohio Graduation Test Cut Scores and Scoring Bands on the 2012 test
Reading
Advanced.......79%-100%
Accelerated.....63.5%-78%
Proficient.........40.6%-63.4%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 48 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Reading.
Springboro had 88 students out of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
Math
Advanced.......75%-100%
Accelerated....61%-74%
Proficient........42%-60%
If a student was able to answer 19.5 out of 46 questions correctly they were deemed Proficient in Math.
Springboro had 40 students our of 380 students taking the Ohio Graduation test fall in the Proficient or below category. This test is taken in the spring of their sophomore year and measures what they have learned in grades 1-9.
They further REDUCED the number of questions correct that you needed to reach the various achievement levels down a question from the 2011 already low levels.
To summarize...
In reading, 23% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.
In math, 10% of 2012's sophomore class scored "proficient" OR BELOW.

Now just for a moment, try to place yourself in the sneakers of a typical hormone-enraged Boro 15-year-old.
Regardless of how their parents probably feel, a certain percentage out of this 23% and 10% are kids who couldn't care less about their futures and are living 100% in the moment.
Students like this are the way they are for multitudes of reasons, usually much of it having to do with dysfunction at home.
What if anything can a Springboro conversion school do for kids like this?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23062 Jan 17, 2013
Remember this test rates children on how much of the curriculum they learned in grades 1-9.

This test is taken in May of their 10th grade year. Go look at the practice test on the ODE website. Not overly demanding.

Would you be more impressed to find out that 39% can't write a coherent sentence?

21% with hardly any knowledge of science whatsoever?

Or 20% that have only the faintest knowledge of government and the people of the world?

I though we were better than that?
reality

Dayton, OH

#23063 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Remember this test rates children on how much of the curriculum they learned in grades 1-9.
This test is taken in May of their 10th grade year. Go look at the practice test on the ODE website. Not overly demanding.
Would you be more impressed to find out that 39% can't write a coherent sentence?
21% with hardly any knowledge of science whatsoever?
Or 20% that have only the faintest knowledge of government and the people of the world?
I though we were better than that?
Reading 23%
Reading comprehension 39%
Science 21%
Social Studies 20%
Math 10%

Something we must keep in mind when looking at this is many students have tested proficient or below in one or more subject.

In answering my own question...
If we as a community choose to have a conversion school, it needs to not be exclusively an elite destination for our "gifted" students.
To be fair to every living breathing soul this community, facilities and faculty within a Boro conversion school would have to be for students who have demonstated they have a learning issue, every bit as much as those who have been labelled "gifted".
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23064 Jan 17, 2013
Or just for those kids who are not getting it period. Those rated Proficient and below.

What differene does it make if the kids do better?
Mixed

Maineville, OH

#23065 Jan 17, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Or just for those kids who are not getting it period. Those rated Proficient and below.
What differene does it make if the kids do better?
Doug, find a new hobby and get off topix
Really

Dayton, OH

#23066 Jan 17, 2013
blogg this wrote:
<quoted text>
Please remember that Lebanon has a very large % of students that do not even speak English and they scored better than Springboro. OUCH
Lebanon did not score better than Springboro; they scored lower in every category except one. Furthermore, Springboro had a higher percentage of students score in the Advanced category than practically every test taken by Lebanon. Also, I would hardly say that 1.4% of students that are Limited English Proficient is a "very large % of students".
Why no answers

United States

#23067 Jan 17, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Lebanon did not score better than Springboro; they scored lower in every category except one. Furthermore, Springboro had a higher percentage of students score in the Advanced category than practically every test taken by Lebanon. Also, I would hardly say that 1.4% of students that are Limited English Proficient is a "very large % of students".
Would you also say that scoring 61% on a test was accelerated? Or failing?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23068 Jan 17, 2013
i am beginning to think most of the supporters of the union don't really care one way or another about the kids. As long as their kids are doing fine then what difference does the rest of it make. It's starting to look a lot like the kid's sports programs only with academics. I will take care of my kid first, the rest of you are window dressing. Sad
Re-cap

Dayton, OH

#23069 Jan 17, 2013
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money

Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!

Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23070 Jan 17, 2013
Thanks re-cap, for taking on the Topix bullies!
oops

Dayton, OH

#23071 Jan 17, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done)
LOL! Watch out! That Freudian slip of yours is showing!
And yes, after last Thursday evening the good people of Boro realize the majority of SEA supporters... have poor PRINCIPLES!
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#23072 Jan 17, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!
Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Wow, the poor teachers, how about some empathy for the children that we leave behind in the classroom year after year? Who do you suppose the real victims might be?

Some teachers are outstanding, some are good, some are mediocre, and some are bad. Seems like they represent a cross section, just like every other profession. The martyr thing isn't working.
Out of Towner

Hamilton, OH

#23073 Jan 18, 2013
Re-cap wrote:
Topix bloggers approach to Springboro teachers:
- All union teachers - in general hate them but cant get rid of them (hmmm charter schools - a possibility)
- Older teachers or principles - really hate them (nix Malone - almost done), push out rest with incentives - done
- Tenured teachers - really hate but what to do - lets complain and make them feel unwanted and hopefully they leave town
- Teachers requesting tenure - get rid of them - easy enough
- Young teachers making minimum $- love them but let's not give them any more money
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, anyone that wants to help teachers - call them nasty names and degrade them on this blog site - done!
Way to go Springboro citizens - real class act you got going on there.
Great job recap!!!!!! You are starting to expose the KOOLAID DRINKERS. Could not agree with you more...You should now be called the "VOICE OF REASON"...
Jim Jones Lives

Lebanon, OH

#23074 Jan 18, 2013
Out of Towner wrote:
<quoted text>
Great job recap!!!!!! You are starting to expose the KOOLAID DRINKERS. Could not agree with you more...You should now be called the "VOICE OF REASON"...
I guess if you want to live in Jonestown.

Are the assessment scores right or wrong?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23075 Jan 18, 2013
Irrespective of where you come down on the issues, it ultimately arrives at the point where we have to decide if we are doing as well as we can. Is there absolutely no other way of doing things? Are we condemned to the same way of doing things that we have always done?

Are these 2000 plus children scoring BELOW 63% on their assessment test doomed to that fate forever?

How long should these children wait?

Each day, each month, each year that ticks by is forever lost to those children.

While we dither and cast aspersions, another child's future slips further to the wayside.
I would love it

Dayton, OH

#23076 Jan 18, 2013
contract me wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you are highly irresponsible and probably need to clarify your communication....either that or you're back peddling now because even you know I'm right. Dr Kohls is a much better representative to serve our children. Of the two I would choose her over Mr. Petroni anytime. When did Mr. Petroni start working with Charter schools...check into that and you may feel what most of us already do. He continues to fight so hard to find a way to put our kids into a school that is old, small, and outdated. For what? He says it's to generate revenue? The school can hold what 120 some kids? And yet he says 2000 are failing? You do the math. This stinks. And, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....we're all adults. I think we can make our own decisions about a conflict of interest issue. Dr Kohls isn't in the business of charter schools. She's in the business of education. Don't try to lump her in with Mr. Petroni. They aren't even on the same level.
Its not my communication. You assume way too much out of a simple sentence. Let me get this out there so you can relax. I fully support Dr. Kohls, Rigano and Petroni! I absolutley oppose Miller, the union, SEA and the Babbalonies. I, like everyone else don't know if the a Charter school will improve Boro but it is worth a study. More importantly I hope this discussion brings to light that our school is not as good as the administrator, teachers and the union would like us to beleive. I hope this discussion wakes everyone up and we all realize there is a ton of room for improvement. Realization is the first step for improvement. We need to realize Excellent with Distinction honors the state bestows upon schools is not worth the paper it is written on.
Re-cap

Dayton, OH

#23077 Jan 18, 2013
Ok now let’s live in the hypothetical world of the Topix bloggers.
All union teachers have left Springboro schools. Now who will teach the students:

Idea 1: Let’s hire people that have worked in the world, real world experience will be good for the students.
Mathematician avg.$52,447
Scientist avg.$86,090
English (Editor) avg.$54,077
Historian avg.$54,400
hmmm – we can’t afford these people – okay, scratch that idea

Idea 2: Let’s hire high school graduates, how hard can it really be to teach. Oh wait a minute, we’ve been saying for months how high school students fail their graduation tests even though the state passes them. Ok, forget that idea; we don’t want failures to teach our kids.

Idea 3: Let’s hire retirees – they need something to do during the day and their experiences will provide good life lessons for the students. Oh, wait a minute, they’re receiving SS payments and if we hire them they will be double dipping – we can’t have that even if it may be cheaper because we don’t have to pay all of the benefits. No double dippers!

Idea 4: OK, let’s just hire teachers but we cannot let them join a union. Great – sounds like a good plan. Oh, wait a minute, after a few years the teachers will want raises – we can’t have that. Ok, after they’ve worked a few years then we will get rid of them and hire fresh teachers at the minimum pay rate.

OK – we have a plan. But.. all of the good teachers coming out of college are interviewing at other schools and avoiding Springboro. The only teachers interviewing at Springboro are the ones nobody else wants to hire. Oh well – they’re cheap right?

Now, on to those student test scores – how do we get the students to learn more so they will be better prepared for the tests?????

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