Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31932 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Get Real

Cincinnati, OH

#22898 Jan 9, 2013
the inside track wrote:
<quoted text>
I can guarantee you in 2009 there were a lot more than 8 kids being home schooled in Springboro.
The job of home schooling a child is no walk in the park. We've lived in this area for over 20 years. During this time we've met many parents both inside and outside of Springboro schools who have chosen to home school. Some of them were starting to home school in order to attempt to fix a "bad situation" at public or private school. Others were brand new parents with children entering kindergarten age.
Some of these homeschool stories have been successful, while many others haven't. The successful ones usuallly involve a parent who possess not only an ability to teach, but more importantly God-given PATIENCE.
Then there have been a number of absolute home schooling horror stories. One involved a teaching parent that quite frankly had no idea what she was getting into because she wasn't mature or patient enough to be her kids full time teacher. Another situation involved a very talented parent whose strong efforts ended up in complete ruins only because of interference by the spouse substance abuse problem.
Another local family we know was successful in graduating their children through home schooling. Their kids are well past graduation age and still can't support themselves. This is unfortunate because they are very bright, friendly people. I suspect a lot of their current problems may have something to do lack of personal growth opportunities and lack of good peer socialization because of their oppressive helicopter parents.
Above judgement is so typical of the Springboro union activists -- just blame the parents for "withholding" those school tax dollars stamped on that child's forehead by the greedy union masters of Springboro Education Association ...

btw-- lots of college-educated young adults,(even those who graduated from excellent with distinction high schools),
are coming home from graduation to live with their parents, instead of starting their careers -- because there are NO jobs for these young adults and no money to pay back those "higher education" loans.
In case you were curious

Yellow Springs, OH

#22899 Jan 9, 2013
Don't forget that offering AP courses costs money (teachers must be specially trained by The College Board in order to teach AP courses), requires different textbooks purchases, and impacts the class sizes of non-AP courses being offered. For example, if Teacher A and Teacher B are both teaching 2 classes of Physics (just a hypothetical example) in 2012-2013, but in 2013-2014, Teacher A teaches a secion of AP Physics, there is one less section of regular Physics for students to take. Generally speaking, fewer students will take an AP course than a regular course, meaning the AP Physics class may only have 15 students in it, instead of 25. This results in larger classes in the three "regular" courses. Obviously, in this example, the increased number of students isn't catastrophic, but if it happened for multiple classes in multiple subject areas, it would make a difference.

Also of note, specifically impacting the statistics mentioned earlier, Springbor students who take AP courses are not required to take the AP exam for the course they are AP course they are taking (it is optional and those who take the test must pay for it themselves). In most of the schools mentioned in the statistics provided, all students enrolled in the course are required to take the AP exam and the cost is absorbed into class fees. Requiring them to take the exam encourages them to take the class seriously and enables the teachers to go into greater depth in their instruction.

I'm sure you will question my source for this information...it is from The College Board (the company that makes the AP tests), analysis of budget reports, and questioning the adminstrators at Springboro. A detailed analysis for Springboro's AP courses (including their cost to the district) was completed during the 2008-09 Program Analysis Project. Surely it is a matter of public record and can be requested from Central Office. At the time, offering AP courses was found to be incredibly cost-effective. Requiring students to take the courses seriously and take the exams was "not within the spirit of Springboro High School's Philosophy" and was not pursued.
Happy Days wrote:
<quoted text>
One factor that can influence the percentage of kids taking AP classes is the breadth of the subject offered as well as the number of actual classes held. I know that one of my kids was not able to take an AP class because it was full therefore, his not able to take that class negatively impacted Springboro's percentage. Also, Springboro's AP offering is narrower than that offered at other schools. We probably have more than some and I know we have less than others. That would also impact the number and percentage of kids taking classes. You have to be careful with these stats as it's not straight apples to apples from school to school. It could be that if we had more sections of a particular AP class and/or a wider offering, that our percentage could be higher, or even lower.
the inside track

Dayton, OH

#22900 Jan 9, 2013
Get Real wrote:
<quoted text>
Above judgement is so typical of the Springboro union activists -- just blame the parents for "withholding" those school tax dollars stamped on that child's forehead by the greedy union masters of Springboro Education Association ...
btw-- lots of college-educated young adults,(even those who graduated from excellent with distinction high schools),
are coming home from graduation to live with their parents, instead of starting their careers -- because there are NO jobs for these young adults and no money to pay back those "higher education" loans.
Me? A union activist? LOL! Guess again!
So what's the deal with all of the unneccessary quotation marks?
Wait! Wait! Don't tell me!
Let me guess!
You graduated from Springboro High School!
Very Curious

Cincinnati, OH

#22901 Jan 9, 2013
I'm sure you will question my source for this information...it is from The College Board (the company that makes the AP tests), analysis of budget reports, and questioning the adminstrators at Springboro. A detailed analysis for Springboro's AP courses (including their cost to the district) was completed during the 2008-09 Program Analysis Project. Surely it is a matter of public record and can be requested from Central Office. At the time, offering AP courses was found to be incredibly cost-effective. Requiring students to take the courses seriously and take the exams was "not within the spirit of Springboro High School's Philosophy" and was not pursued.-posted by: in case you were curious-

Seems like during the 2008-09 year very little (except cheating our students out of greater achievements and scamming our kids sports fees for individual sports coaches best interest) WAS within the spirit of Springboro High School's Philosophy.
Don Miller is the only board member left over from Ron Malone's tired old high school philosophy of defending status quo. With a 4-1 reform minded BOE majority working in the best interest of our children's future, the old school philosophy of Don Miller and Ron Malone of just resting on our HAS BEEN excellent with distinction rating is so NOT relevant for 21st century education philosophy; and we have such ACCELERATED hopes for the new year that Don Miller and Ron Malone will fade just fade away to have a nice day someplace else .....
Check your facts

Euclid, OH

#22902 Jan 9, 2013
I will home school wrote:
<quoted text>
I had no idea, now I am very frustrated. This is what Lisa Babb and others with her want to cover up with the "everything is great here in la la land"? According to her and her fellow bullies, "we are great so why mess with greatness"? Remember Lisa is a Teacher for public schools.
I think I am one of the last to know this stuff, is this why home schoolers went from 8 in 2009 to 200 today. So in just two years parents chose to educate at home rather than keeping them in a failing system. These parents want more for their kids shouldn't we?
We had way way way more than 8 home schoolers in 2009. Where do you get this stuff????
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22903 Jan 9, 2013
Check your facts wrote:
<quoted text>
We had way way way more than 8 home schoolers in 2009. Where do you get this stuff????
If you say 8 is incorrect please tell us how many different households were there?

And your source for this answer was.....?
Wondering

Springfield, OH

#22904 Jan 10, 2013
Check your facts wrote:
<quoted text>
We had way way way more than 8 home schoolers in 2009. Where do you get this stuff????
Can you prove your Way Way Way and by the way if you have the #'s for 2009 give us the current #'s for those that left our district for home schooling, private education, WCCC, OHVA
Wondering

Springfield, OH

#22905 Jan 10, 2013
Reality Bytes wrote:
It isn't surprising that this same group of school district union activists who are expressing concern of "wasteful spending" of taxpayers money IS the same group of union activists that threw a hissy fit because the board voted NOT to waste taxpayers money on Ohio School Board Association membership fees (even though it was understood that OSBA membership offered NOTHING for "the betterment of education" for ALL of our children.
This same group of union activists even circulated petitions against the Board of Education members who voted NO WASTEFUL SPENDING of taxpayers' money; BUT now Lisa Babb (among other union activists) are rallying for another "vote for revenge" on January 10 against the Springboro Board of Education's proposal to invest taxpayer's money in opportunities "for the betterment of education for All our school district children."
Could it be that union activists are more concerned with spending our school tax dollars on the OSBA training to promote and pass continuous streams of un-necessary school levies; than investing our school tax dollars in opportunities of greater achievements for our students?
Not really a surprise because these are the same people bogging our tech and treasurers departments down with extremely large records requests for e-mails, not financials, not academic, not policy but and communications within the district. This group has cost this district far far more than $20,000 in the last year. Now lets talk about how many times they have sued this district for nonsense in the last year.
Wondering

Springfield, OH

#22906 Jan 10, 2013
Unions afraid wrote:
Charter schools do not hire union teachers and pay less than average public school salaries. They have individual contracts with each teacher hired. So, who's afraid now, Mrs. Babb and friends?
The board could pull all the gifted kids out, get rid of those highly paid union label teachers and save the taxpayers some money.
First step though, no consultants. The treasurer should have the knowledge and ability to do the math. Whether or not there is an ethical conflict, there is the appearance of one.
OK I see this as stating that the district should just invest in this idea without doing the homework? I see that as a big mistake. You are saying no consultant? How can the district know the pros and cons of this as an option if they do not have experts advising them?
I don't think you are right about the union being out of this school. They will have the same chance of controlling this school as they do the rest so this school may not have a chance to really educate either because they do not care about the kids. This district needs to have the answers first.
Students first

Springfield, OH

#22907 Jan 10, 2013
Ok who the heck is Todd Smith? He is asked as if he has some expertise.

See DDN article
“All of a sudden, we’re in a big hurry to spend $15,000 that we don’t have,” said Todd Smith, an engineer and Springboro parent.“There are tons of resources that don’t cost us money that we could use to decide. Why don’t we invest in our teachers to deal with this rather than ship it out?”

All of a sudden??? Todd did you know that Educare -remember that building on our campus that has us on the hook for 20 million, is not used at all for education and we spent a year investigating without community input, was 100% completed before anyone was asked, "What do you think"? Did you know that the discussion of a conversion idea started last year in an open public meeting? Todd where were you during that? Did you say all of a sudden then?
Did you know Todd, that the agenda has this topic on it tonight yet nothing has been decided even about whether to hire a consultant. I don't want this district to wait for anyone to catch up if we can offer a better education to our kids now, mine included. I hope Todd is comfortable with mediocre.

Todd why do you speak when you don't know the facts? What does it mean to you to "invest in the teachers"? So does that mean you don't think investing in the children is important? Investing in the kids is a foreign thought to some. I see who you are now.
What are we doing

Springfield, OH

#22908 Jan 10, 2013
This tells the whole story. I beg you to get educated.
Grading on a curve

The illusion of excellence data.
http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C...
Ridiculous

Dayton, OH

#22909 Jan 10, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really a surprise because these are the same people bogging our tech and treasurers departments down with extremely large records requests for e-mails, not financials, not academic, not policy but and communications within the district. This group has cost this district far far more than $20,000 in the last year. Now lets talk about how many times they have sued this district for nonsense in the last year.
Has anyone used the Freedom of Information Act to request these emails? I'm certain it would be very enlightening.
Records

Springfield, OH

#22910 Jan 10, 2013
Ridiculous wrote:
<quoted text>
Has anyone used the Freedom of Information Act to request these emails? I'm certain it would be very enlightening.
My friend works in the central office and has told me that the babb group constantly asks for vast amounts of records of e-mails and never has anything come up "BAD", they just keep making requests that cost this district thousands with no motive to help kids.
masterofconcrete pourers

Fairborn, OH

#22911 Jan 10, 2013
Now you all want to have the teachers carry guns there?

Jesus Christ!
sunshine

Dayton, OH

#22912 Jan 10, 2013
Records wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend works in the central office and has told me that the babb group constantly asks for vast amounts of records of e-mails and never has anything come up "BAD", they just keep making requests that cost this district thousands with no motive to help kids.
Babb ought to be charged per request....now THAT would help our kids.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#22913 Jan 10, 2013
Go to page 12 and see how our kids are really doing.

http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C ...

See the definition and range of Proficient, Accelerated, and Advanced.

See if you agree with the state's labeling program of academic achievement.

Note also that the INDICATORS on the district report card that we so assuredly point to as proof of our excellence, mean nothing more than you had 75% or more of your students rated above Proficient.

Each subject tested in each grade test is an INDICATOR, there are 26 INDICATORS you must attain. 24 of the 26 regard having 75% of your students attain Proficient rating.

To be labeled as Proficient in Reading in the 6th grade you had to get at least 35% of the questions correct. 35%= Proficient

And if 75% of your students get at least 35% correct answers on the test your school is granted another INDICATOR point.

The worst is Math in the 7th grade, 32% correct answers to be considered Proficient. 32%= Proficient

And if 75% of your students get at least 32% correct answers on the test your school is granted another INDICATOR point.

We should educate ourselves on these willful obfuscations and demand better.
go away

Springboro, OH

#22914 Jan 10, 2013
Records wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend works in the central office and has told me that the babb group constantly asks for vast amounts of records of e-mails and never has anything come up "BAD", they just keep making requests that cost this district thousands with no motive to help kids.
And they are well within their rights under the Ohio Revised Code and the Sunshine laws to ask for whatever they want - no matter what their motivation. Its the law.
Let the Light Shine In

Cincinnati, OH

#22915 Jan 10, 2013
Records wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend works in the central office and has told me that the babb group constantly asks for vast amounts of records of e-mails and never has anything come up "BAD", they just keep making requests that cost this district thousands with no motive to help kids.
It's a first step to let the light shine in on the special privileges granted to babb and her bullies by our school employees; but we need to turn up the heat and find out why?

OK - why not go to central office and ask which school employee is responsible for turning over email records "upon request."
We need to research the rights of this sunshine law,
because a former school employee who previously handled these curiousity requests, stated that all email requests had to be SPECIFICALLY questioning SPECIFIC content about the individual citizen requesting the emails. It is understood that it takes a lot of time for school employees to furnish these type of requests and people just walking into central office and getting random access to emails of elected officials is not acceptable. Don't think we need to call the news team to report wasteful spending to the community, but concerned citizens can certainly visit the central office tomorrow morning and gather the facts. It the right thing for responsible citizens to do.
Let the Light Shine In

Cincinnati, OH

#22916 Jan 10, 2013
go away wrote:
<quoted text>
And they are well within their rights under the Ohio Revised Code and the Sunshine laws to ask for whatever they want - no matter what their motivation. Its the law.
Disagree, but concerned citizens still need to look into this further. Is the Central Office the best place to start?
If it is the law that these e-mail records are public access, then the emails should be on the public school board website; so that whoever, for whatever, has public access without going into the schools central office and wasting taxpayers dollars by requesting school employees to spoon feed their curiousity.
Let the Light Shine In

Cincinnati, OH

#22917 Jan 10, 2013
go away wrote:
<quoted text>
And they are well within their rights under the Ohio Revised Code and the Sunshine laws to ask for whatever they want - no matter what their motivation. Its the law.
Go Away? How silly? Typical response of those status quo defenders of keeping our children's future of greater achievements left behind, in favor of their silly nit-picking, attacking the character of elected officials.

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