BoroWise

Piqua, OH

#21 Dec 23, 2012
Twp resident wrote:
Thursday's DDN page A10
Kelly Kohls, the president of the Springboro school board, said the conversation about arming school staff members has come up in board discussions. She said a great deal of research would have to be conducted before any decisions are made.
"It's a scary thought to me to have a gun in the building, but from what I'm hearing, if there were one or two armed people in the (Sandy Hook) building, they certainly would have been able to stop the murders sooner," Kohls said. "We just want to keep the kids safe; we're just not sure what route to take."
"I think we'd consider anything to protect our students, but how we would do that is to develop a series of plans," Kohls said.
Sounds like our local school board is one step ahead of the distraught emotionalism of "it could happen here."
The board president's statement that a great deal of research would have to be conducted before any decisions are made seems the better approach than a one size fits all plan from the state or federal politicians or special interest groups.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#22 Dec 23, 2012
Just Asking wrote:
Public education is the expertise of school teachers and administrators. Public safety is the expertise of our local law enforcement officers.
Let each community worker serve the public in their own realm of expertise and working together we'll build strong schools/strong community.
A multiple choice question.

If there was another school shooting, which method of First Responers would be most likely to react the quickest, potentially saving the most lives?
A) off-site police officers
B) on-site police officers staged outside
C) on-site police officers staged inside
D) select school staff trained and armed with a conceal and carry defensive weapon
E) Any practical combination of C and D

(here's a clue...)
If I was on a school board and Im not...Its the toughest job there is... I would seriously consider having someone in that school who may be an ex-police officer, someone who has significant training, who had access to a gun in a school, he said.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#23 Dec 23, 2012
BoroWise wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds like our local school board is one step ahead of the distraught emotionalism of "it could happen here."
The board president's statement that a great deal of research would have to be conducted before any decisions are made seems the better approach than a one size fits all plan from the state or federal politicians or special interest groups.
Thank you very much for expressing the obvious. Of course more research would need to be conducted.
Any and all BOEs in Ohio including Springboro has it within their power to put defensive weapons in their respective school buildings. Since the Sandy Hook shooting, I've spoken with Boro BOE members who've indicated they're not necessarily opposed to the concept of personnel with defensive weapons at our schools.
Lighten Up

Piqua, OH

#24 Dec 26, 2012
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
You have yet to post proof of this, other than it's "your" understanding.
You go first! Can you "post proof" that "it could happen here" other than your opinion based on your understanding of what happenend in Newtown?
it can happen here

Germantown, OH

#25 Dec 26, 2012
Lighten Up wrote:
<quoted text>
You go first! Can you "post proof" that "it could happen here" other than your opinion based on your understanding of what happenend in Newtown?
Humans collectively possess an evolutionary desire to survive and reproduce. It is part of human nature to hope, believe and or pray that a massacre such as what occured at Sandy Hook might never happen in "our own backyard" - Springboro OH.

Most assuredly parents, students and faculty at Red Lake Senior High in Minnesota believed something as horrific as Columbine could never happen on their turf. "It" happened at Red Lake Senior High on March 21,2005. Nine people were killed.

The Virginia Tech campus is the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history. In the weeks prior to 4/16/2007, is there any way Va Tech security administrators could have anticipated that this campus would be launched into national infamy as the United State's "next Columbine"? No. Probably not.

Since the Newtown shooting, certainly parents all over the country are holding their kids a little tighter every night. This is good. However parents everywhere shouldn't necessarily feel good about their kids overall safety while at any school regardless of how much of the public's taxes are invested in high tech security.
Real defensive security is about licensed people IN the halls, IN the classrooms with ready access to defensive arms.

Of course no one can predict when or where the next attack might occur. We just know another one will very likely occur.
There are no guarantees one can be stopped anywhere at anytime. But X percentage of such attacks may be thwarted if an attacker or attackers know in advance there are armed police or armed plainclothes C&C civilians inside the buildings. I reccommend that we do not rest easy in the sense of security
provided to us by our superintendent. Yes, Springboro schools does indeed have a really nice inter-building communications system as well as lots of cameras and good front door security policy. The real trick will be not letting the guard down just because the national media circus surrounding Sandy Hook begins to fade.

What would be a much bigger tragedy than Columbine, Red Lake, Va Tech and Sandy Hook? NOT implementing pro-active interior armed protection for students / faculty in order to help deter and thwart efforts of future attackers.
Livin in 5 Points

Germantown, OH

#26 Dec 27, 2012
it can happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans collectively possess an evolutionary desire to survive and reproduce. It is part of human nature to hope, believe and or pray that a massacre such as what occured at Sandy Hook might never happen in "our own backyard" - Springboro OH.
Most assuredly parents, students and faculty at Red Lake Senior High in Minnesota believed something as horrific as Columbine could never happen on their turf. "It" happened at Red Lake Senior High on March 21,2005. Nine people were killed.
This is true. Two years ago a close friend of one my children was seriously wounded at the NIU shooting. We drove to Dekalb to support this family and attend the funerals of two other NIU students. At the funerals the same words kept getting said over and over. How could something like this happen here?
Livin in 5 Points

Germantown, OH

#27 Dec 27, 2012
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
A multiple choice question.
If there was another school shooting, which method of First Responers would be most likely to react the quickest, potentially saving the most lives?
A) off-site police officers
B) on-site police officers staged outside
C) on-site police officers staged inside
D) select school staff trained and armed with a conceal and carry defensive weapon
E) Any practical combination of C and D
(here's a clue...)
If I was on a school board and Im not...Its the toughest job there is... I would seriously consider having someone in that school who may be an ex-police officer, someone who has significant training, who had access to a gun in a school, he said.
B and D
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#28 Dec 28, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no constructive arguments to offer, but lots of view points that differ from "it could happen here."
And to my understanding, according to Attorney General Mike DeWine, the State is not going to fund any such training that would be necessary to train school employees into Good Cops in the our classrooms and hallways.
You have posted that you "have no constructive arguments to offer". That's OK. I understand.

At least please attempt live up to your word. Please post a link to serve as evidence of what you claim to be Mike DeWine's position regarding potential First Responder funding for Ohio's school employees.
this isnt a new problem

Germantown, OH

#29 Dec 29, 2012
BATH TWP, MICHIGAN
MAY 18, 1927

Classes began at 8:30 a.m. that morning. At about 8:45 a.m., in the basement of the north wing of the school, an alarm clock set by Andrew Kehoe detonated the dynamite and pyrotol he had hidden there.

Rescuers heading to the scene of the Kehoe farm fire heard the explosion at the school building, turned back and headed toward the school. Parents within the rural community also began rushing to the school. Thirty-eight people, mostly children, were killed in the explosion of the north wing.

The first-grade teacher Bernice Sterling told an Associated Press reporter that the explosion was like an earthquake:
It seemed as though the floor went up several feet," she said. "After the first shock I thought for a moment I was blind. When it came the air seemed to be full of children and flying desks and books." Children were tossed high in the air; some were catapulted out of the building.

The north wing of the school had collapsed. Parts of the walls had crumbled, and the edge of the roof had fallen to the ground. Monty Ellsworth, a neighbor of the Kehoes, recounted, "There was a pile of children of about five or six under the roof and some of them had arms sticking out, some had legs, and some just their heads sticking out. They were unrecognizable because they were covered with dust, plaster, and blood. There were not enough of us to move the roof."

Ellsworth volunteered to drive back to his farm and get a rope heavy enough to pull the school roof off the children's bodies. Returning to his farm, Ellsworth saw Kehoe in the opposite direction heading toward the school. "He grinned and waved his hand; when he grinned, I could see both rows of his teeth", said Ellsworth.

The scene at the school building was chaotic. Robert Gates, a witness, said "... mother after mother came running into the school yard, and demanded information about her child and, on seeing the lifeless form lying on the lawn, sobbed and swooned...In no time more than 100 men were at work tearing away the debris of the school, and nearly as many women were frantically pawing over the timber and broken bricks for traces of their children".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disa...
Read All About It

Piqua, OH

#30 Dec 29, 2012
2012 - BFA in the News
Note: some websites change or deactivate stories after we link them here.
December 27, 2012
Fox News Radio "The Alan Colmes Show"
Buckeye Firearms Association Chairman Jim Irvine was a guest on Fox News Radio's "The Alan Colmes Show." Jim discussed the announcement that Buckeye Firearms Association (BFA) has launched a pilot program to provide firearm training to teachers free of charge. "The Alan Colmes Show" is broadcast live and syndicated nationally by Fox News Radio.
December 27, 2012
ABC World News Tonight - Utah Teachers Flock to Gun Training
In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Association is launching a pilot armed teacher training program in which 24 teachers will be selected to attend a three-day training class.
December 27, 2012
WLW 700 AM (Cincinnati) "The Big Show with Bill Cunningham"
Buckeye Firearms Association Chairman Jim Irvine was a guest on The Big Show with Bill Cunningham. Jim discussed the Buckeye Firearms Foundation announcement of the Armed Teacher Pilot Program designed to provide free training to educators with guest host Dan Carroll. Click here to listen to the podcast.
December 27, 2012
KOGO 600 AM (San Diego) "Chip Franklin Mornings"
Buckeye Firearms Association Region Leader Joe Eaton was a guest on Chip Franklin Mornings. Joe discussed the announcement that Buckeye Firearms Association (BFA) has launched a pilot program to provide firearm training to teachers free of charge. Click here to listen to the podcast.
December 27, 2012
USA Today - Buckeye Firearms Association offers free training to teachers after Sandy Hook Elementary shootings
In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Foundation is swamped with 20 times more applications from teachers and administrators to custodians and bus drivers -- than they have space for in a three-day tactical defense course to be offered this this spring.
Jim Irvine, president of the Ohio foundation, said Thursday that the $1,000 per person Armed Teacher Training Program would be free for the 24 people selected from more than 400 applicants. "What better use for an educational foundation than to help educators protect our children," he said.
It is legal in Ohio to bring a concealed weapon on school grounds if a school district has granted permission. Irvine expects more will do so since the Sandy Hook killings.
"School boards were just in denial. That denial got ripped away in Newtown, Conn. The idea is to make it hard to kill a kid," he said.
The school personnel chosen for the class must already have basic firearms training and a concealed carry permit and come to the Tactical Defense Institute in rural West Union, Ohio, with their own handgun, holster, extra magazines and speed loaders.
December 26, 2012
Associated Press - Ohio gun group offers shooting lessons to teachers (picked up by news outlets across the state and around the country, including Fox News & MSN)
Following the killing of 20 children and six educators in Newtown, Conn., an Ohio-based gun group says it is launching a test program to train teachers how to use firearms.
2012 - BFA in the News - Buckeye Firearms Association
www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8144
Read More About It

Piqua, OH

#31 Dec 30, 2012
From the December 29, 2012, a website article in The Columbus Dispatch "Scores of school workers want gun training".....

....The local police union expressed concerns this week about arming teachers or others who work in schools.
..."It's our position that there should be law-enforcement officers in schools," said Jason Pappas, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Capital Citry Lodge No. 9. "To have civilians with guns in schools who could be mistaken for an active shooter only causes confusion for law enforcement."

Columbus school-board member Mike Wiles also prefers trained police officers in schools. He's willing to listen to all options for keeping students safe, but he said the notion of arming staff members would require support from "the board, the community, the staff, the parents, everybody."

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local... ...
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#32 Dec 30, 2012
Read More About It wrote:
From the December 29, 2012, a website article in The Columbus Dispatch "Scores of school workers want gun training".....
......."It's our position that there should be law-enforcement officers in schools," said Jason Pappas, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Capital Citry Lodge No. 9. "To have civilians with guns in schools who could be mistaken for an active shooter only causes confusion for law enforcement."
I don't necessarily disagree with this point. In the heat of the moment confusion often rules supreme. On the other hand, much of the logic behind this point supports training faculty to not only be First Responders if needed, but also license them with concealed carry permits. Why? Two reasons...

1) Unlike the givaway of uniformed police, civilians in schools would be extremely difficult for an attacker to scout because civilians (teachers, etc) are of course dressed non-conspicuously.

2) For each respective facility local law enforcement would prior knowledge of and ready web access to the identities, backgrounds, and visual profiles of assigned plainclothes First Responder.



It's important not to forget over the last 13 years since Columbine that it's been teachers, counselors and principals at these schools attempting to do whatever humanly possible to save lives. This alone should be telling us something about what steps we need to take!
The teachers, counselors and principals licensed and trained as First Responders to defend those around them would be there in the same classrooms and hallways as the schoolchildren for which they're responsible in the most crucial of moments.

A hypothetical:
2 police officers are hired per facility. Situations could of course differ, but in many cases logic would dictate one would be hired for the building's interior, the other for an exterior driveway checkpoint. These 2 police officers would work in close communication with each other and with school administrators. There is no question the presence of such police would add a layer of defense and a visual deterrent. If this school's security was breached by a gunman, how would they work together if they were physically apart? Which party collectively is in a much better position to disrupt the actions of the gunman? The police? Or school civilians with quick access?

A person has to be certified nuts to want to pick up a gun and attempt to gain access to any building (especially a school) and start blasting kids. Certain attackers may not possess an ounce of respect for their fellow man. Others may not respect persons wearing a uniform or a badge, or worse, may specifically target them. Don't get me wrong. The use of police is never a bad idea, especially as 2nd wave Responders. However, regarding how to come to a common ground in raising standards of school security, we must collectively discover a way to shed the myopic mindset that the homogeneous approach "staging police as a deterrent" is the answer to raising the bar of every district's security.
the people speak

Germantown, OH

#33 Dec 31, 2012
US GUN GROUPS OFFER TRAINING FOR TEACHERS
West Valley City, Utah
English teacher Kevin Leatherbarrow holds a license to carry a concealed weapon and doesn't see anything wrong with arming teachers in the aftermath of the deadly Connecticut school shooting.

"We're sitting ducks," said Leatherbarrow, who works at a Utah charter school. "You don't have a chance in hell. You're dead no ifs, ands or buts."

Gun-rights advocates in the western state of Utah agree and were offering six hours of training Thursday in handling concealed weapons for 200 Utah teachers in the latest effort to arm teachers to confront school assailants.

In Ohio, a firearms group said it was launching a test program in tactical firearms training for 24 teachers. The Arizona attorney general is proposing a change to state law to allow an educator in each school to carry a gun.

The moves come after the National Rifle Association proposed placing an armed officer at every U.S. school after a gunman on Dec. 14 killed 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

There are already police officers in some of the nation's schools. Parents and educators, however, have questioned how safe the NRA proposal would keep kids, whether it would be economically feasible and how it would alter student life.

Educators say they have no way of knowing how many teachers are armed. Gun-rights advocates estimate 1 percent of Utah teachers, or 240, are licensed to carry concealed weapons. It's not known how many do so at school.

Gun-rights advocates say teachers can act more quickly than law enforcement in the critical first few minutes to protect children from the kind of deadly shooting that took place in Connecticut.

"We're not suggesting that teachers roam the halls" for an armed intruder, said Clark Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, the state's leading gun lobby. "They should lock down the classroom. But a gun is one more option if the shooter" breaks into a classroom, he said.

The council said it would waive its $50 fee for the training. Instruction will feature plastic guns and a major emphasis will be for people who are facing deadly threats to announce they have a gun and retreat or take cover before trying to shoot, he said.
"Mass shootings may still be rare, but that doesn't help you when the monster comes in."

At the class, teachers offered their fingerprints for a permit as an instructor in the "psychology of mass violence" kicked off the gun class.

"I just bought a bra holster," said Jessica Fiveash, a 32-year-old Utah teacher and wife of a retired Army sergeant who grew up shooting and said she had no hesitation packing a gun at school. "Women can't really carry a gun on their hip."

Utah is among few states that let people carry licensed concealed weapons into public schools without exception, the National Conference of State Legislatures says in a 2012 compendium of state gun laws.
Leatherbarrow said he often felt threatened while working at an inner-city school in Buffalo, N.Y., where he got a license to carry a pistol. He moved less than a year ago to Utah, where he feels safer.

But he said gun violence can break out anywhere. He said he was highly trained in handling guns and was taking criticism from parents who don't appreciate his views on school safety.
"I'm in agreement not everybody should be carrying firearms in school. They're not trained. But for some parents to think we're cowboys, that frustrates me," he said. "I wish parents would understand."
the people speak

Germantown, OH

#34 Dec 31, 2012
BUTLER COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICTS LOOK AT ADDING MORE POLICE OFFICERS

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/scho...

In the past five years, school districts throughout Butler County have slashed, or eliminated, the number of school resource officers in their buildings, largely because of budget cutbacks.
But the Dec. 14 mass shooting in Newtown, Conn. where 20 Sandy Hook Elementary School students and six staffers were killed now has many area district and law enforcement officials considering the cost of not having armed police personnel in their schools.

Butler County Sheriff Richard K. Jones said this week that not only should more police be in schools, but that teachers should be trained to carry guns, too. Ohio Attorney General Michael Dewine vowed to offer weapons training of school officials to assure someone with a gun meets any heavily armed shooter in schools.

It needs to be done, said Jones.I believe having armed personnel readily available to immediately respond would be a deterrent in and of itself.
If a potential shooter knows someone might react within seconds rather than having a 15- to 30-minute or more window of opportunity to wreak havoc on as many victims as possible, they might rethink their plan, he said.

Within 24 hours of the Connecticut massacre, two school districts contacted the sheriffs office asking for more security, Jones said. Jones, who admitted even he was apprehensive about letting his grandchildren go back to school last week, paid a visit to Madison schools Wednesday to reassure students and faculty about their safety.

People are scared, Jones said, adding he is paying overtime to have his deputies do extra patrols at schools.
Muterspaw said prior to the Columbine shootings in 1999, protocol for emergencies in schools was to call out a SRT or SWAT team, develop a plan of action, surround the school then go in to eradicate the situation. It took valuable time in which bad guys were shooting victims.

Today, officers in the schools are armed and calls for help are met with a mass of officers, guns in hand, not waiting for a tactical plan or until the school is surrounded.
How schools react in the first minute makes a big difference, Muterspaw said, noting he expects more changes coming in light of the recent tragedy.We will do whatever it takes.
Muterspaw said there is no doubt having armed persons in schools is a deterrent for bad guys, but he is not sold on arming teachers or staff.
Shooting at targets is different than shooting a person. Officers will tell you that, Muterspaw said.
new direction

Germantown, OH

#35 Jan 3, 2013
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
However, regarding how to come to a common ground in raising standards of school security, we must collectively discover a way to shed the myopic mindset that the homogeneous approach "staging police as a deterrent" is the answer to raising the bar of every district's security.
The only extra security we need is Andy and Barney, so long as Andy has Barney's bullet safely put away in his pocket.
Reality Bytes

Piqua, OH

#36 Jan 3, 2013
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
A multiple choice question.
If there was another school shooting, which method of First Responers would be most likely to react the quickest, potentially saving the most lives?
A) off-site police officers
B) on-site police officers staged outside
C) on-site police officers staged inside
D) select school staff trained and armed with a conceal and carry defensive weapon
E) Any practical combination of C and D
(here's a clue...)
If I was on a school board and Im not...Its the toughest job there is... I would seriously consider having someone in that school who may be an ex-police officer, someone who has significant training, who had access to a gun in a school, he said.
If there was another school shooting, the first responders OUTSIDE the public school buildings would be the best defense against "would be" attackers on our school children inside our public school buildings.
big concern

Dayton, OH

#37 Jan 3, 2013
new direction wrote:
<quoted text>
The only extra security we need is Andy and Barney, so long as Andy has Barney's bullet safely put away in his pocket.
or maybe Baker, who would intimidate the intruder will his "better than thou" attitude.
think people think

Germantown, OH

#38 Jan 3, 2013
Reality Bytes wrote:
<quoted text>
If there was another school shooting, the first responders OUTSIDE the public school buildings would be the best defense against "would be" attackers on our school children inside our public school buildings.
OK then, let's examine this your way.
Starting tomorrow, Springboro schools are protected by exterior police officers or hired security. What happens the day something about that exterior security doesn't work? What happens the day exterior security decides to take a break from the monotony by eating at Donut Haus or Bob Evans? What if an armed assailant were to monitor exterior security's daily/ weekly habits in preparation for an attack? If exterior armed security were off-site, who would be available to serve as defenders of our childrens' safety?

Please take a moment to read of the relative ineffectiveness of a SINGLE armed police officer during his response to the two brothers at Columbine.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd...
Thinking Clearly

Piqua, OH

#39 Jan 4, 2013
Since recent financial abuse by our Springboro Schools teachers/sports coaches has been exposed to school district voters; and, since it is generally agreed on this blog that the Springboro Police is looking the other way; voters have no choice except to be overly-cautions in putting our trust in decisions to "arm SEA members" and....
since our public safety officers are already armed, we don't need to "double up" by arming school administrators, teachers, bus drivers, janitors, cafeteria workers....etc....

Clearly the horror of Columbine and other school shootings would not have happened IF these armed school students and mentally ill citizens had been stopped from bringing firearms INTO the building.

Think PAST your fear that it could happen in Springboro classrooms; and start THINKING clearly
....not a chance of IT happening in Springboro classroom IF the people carrying dangerous firearms are deterred by OUTSIDE security.

Keeping our public school buildings a safe environment where children can learn is a community wide concern (including the public safety officers employed by taxpayers in city of Springboro and the Townships; trained police offers are our students best "security protection" and our public school employees SHOULD not have to take on another public servce "job" as security officers in the classrooms.
think people think

Germantown, OH

#40 Jan 4, 2013
Thinking Clearly wrote:
....not a chance of IT happening in Springboro classroom IF the people carrying dangerous firearms are deterred by OUTSIDE security.
Think, people, think! When you post "not a chance" you are saying "(an armed attack on a Springboro school) WILL NOT HAPPEN" so long as the armed attacker(s) "are deterred by outside security".

Are you prepared to come forward to speak before the BOE next Thursday with an explanation detailing your "not a chance" guarantee?

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