Should schoolteachers & principals have conceal & carry? You bet 'cha!

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yes it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#1 Dec 15, 2012
First, let's take a quick look at the big picture. How would the banning of all guns affect America?
To get an idea, examine what is happening right at this moment in the Mother Country:

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/201...

Since the Columbine shootings (4/1999) and the massacres that have happened since, virtually all of our nations schools have been forced to transform themselves in the way they manage visitors. This Sandyhook episode surely will raise that ante. The Sandyhook murderer was the son of one of his 26 victims.

So what do we do now? We know by example that taking away guns is senseless. We could stage police with gun snifing K9's at every entrance, and / or metal detectors. No, that would be way too costly. Taxpayers as a whole would never foot the bill for that.

Together President Obama and Congress need to put this nations' schools in a place where they are no longer completely helpless against armed gunmen and NO LONGER ON THE DEFENSIVE.
Please write, call or e-mail your congressperson in support of enacting a new bill will allow (select, undisclosed) schoolteachers & school faculty the privelege of having conceal and carry inside school buildings during school hours.
Healthy Choice

Piqua, OH

#2 Dec 16, 2012
If we ever forget that we are "One Nation Under God" then we will be a nation gone under."
-Ronald Reagan

Good News! Why not Vote Biblical Values into our Springboro Schools... instead of pressuring Washington insiders to enact legislation turning our public school employees into "select and undisclosed" armed gunmen?
Healthy Choice

Piqua, OH

#3 Dec 16, 2012
Good News from Billy Graham's full page disclosure on protecting the sanctity of life,
printed in the Dayton Daily News on Sunday, November 4, 2012!

"The legacy we leave behind for our children, grandchildren, and this great nation is crucial. As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last. I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel. I urge you to vote for those who protect the sanctity of life and support the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God."
Billy Graham - Montreat, North Carolina

Thank you, North Carolina, for Voting Biblical Values!
Hey Ohio! It's Never Too Late To Become What We Could Have Been!
Ima Parent

Piqua, OH

#4 Dec 18, 2012
No one is pefect; no not one.
Ima parent who totally disagrees that select school faculty members should be legally armed to protect our students against armed attackers. Having at least one person armed at school would not be a comfort; but would cause more anxiety wondering about the "stability" of that one person. More questions about the instability of co-workers or students at school who may get possession of the firearm. How are we going to "evaluate" the background of these who would be approved to carry and conceal a firearm, moving about our kids classrooms and hallways? And would this not dig into the most private of investigations extended into the family members of this faculty member?
(Ima parent who is just sadly remembering the not so long ago news story of a professional counselor in the military service who obviously was highly educated and legally cleared to carry firearms; but the instability of mental condition was never learned which, according to the news, resulted in the tragic fatal attacks upon fellow workers.)
Would it not be be more helpful for Springborians to come together in open community discussion in response to this nationwide grief and shock upon us all, than it is to jump ahead with suggestions of ONE faculty member at school being responsible for the safety and security of our students.
There is some comfort in thinking that we have a "plan" to keep our students and faculty safe; but is there a safe way to turn our schools into a fortress?
Ima parent who would feel better if that one person at school with legally licensed firearms is a professionally trained policeman in an official uniform.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#5 Dec 18, 2012
Ima Parent wrote:
No one is pefect; no not one.
Ima parent who totally disagrees that select school faculty members should be legally armed to protect our students against armed attackers. Having at least one person armed at school would not be a comfort; but would cause more anxiety wondering about the "stability" of that one person. More questions about the instability of co-workers or students at school who may get possession of the firearm. How are we going to "evaluate" the background of these who would be approved to carry and conceal a firearm, moving about our kids classrooms and hallways? And would this not dig into the most private of investigations extended into the family members of this faculty member?
(Ima parent who is just sadly remembering the not so long ago news story of a professional counselor in the military service who obviously was highly educated and legally cleared to carry firearms; but the instability of mental condition was never learned which, according to the news, resulted in the tragic fatal attacks upon fellow workers.)
Would it not be be more helpful for Springborians to come together in open community discussion in response to this nationwide grief and shock upon us all, than it is to jump ahead with suggestions of ONE faculty member at school being responsible for the safety and security of our students.
There is some comfort in thinking that we have a "plan" to keep our students and faculty safe; but is there a safe way to turn our schools into a fortress?
Ima parent who would feel better if that one person at school with legally licensed firearms is a professionally trained policeman in an official uniform.
Answering your concerns in reverse order.

1) Especially in cases where attacks are pre-planned, any person wearing a security or police uniform is surely target numero uno.

2) Yeah sure there are safe ways to turn a school into a fortress. Stage police, K9 gun-snifing dogs and metal detectors at every entrance. Lots of luck with the funding in light of "the cliff".

3) Oh, please! Use some of the common sense you were born with! Who said JUST ONE faculty member per school building would obtain a conceal and carry license? Who said JUST ONE undisclosed faculty member per school building would be required wear their concealed weapon on school grounds?

4) Anyone could pick through the media archives and find plenty of idiots. Conceal and carry isn't inherently wrong just because you remember a news episode of a lunatic who went on some kind of rampage abusing his C&C. The fact of the matter is by far the majority of people who go through the rigors of obtaining conceal and carry licensing gain a tremendous amount of respect for the weapon they will wear under their belt.

5) As they are currently for general hiring background checks, area law enforcement would have to be intimately involved with district administrators to extensively evaluate potential candidates for qualities and issues including their family background.

6) Springboro's schoolchildren and faculty would quickly learn they could breathe a collective sigh of relief once they came to terms with the knowledge that they have a few people IN their classrooms...IN their hallways...just in case their lives are ever placed in jeopardy.


"Conceal and carry" means no one but the principals, the superintendant and the board would be aware of the licensed gun carrier. Their identities would never be revealed. In theory C&C holders could be any "interior" faculty member including front desk receptionists, janitors, nurses, coaches, counselors, principals and teachers.

Students of all ages would need to be made acutely aware they're being secretly protected.
Students of all ages would need to have an understanding that the uncompromised secrecy of their protectors is of the utmost importance to their defense and safety.
Point Counter Point

Piqua, OH

#6 Dec 18, 2012
"Conceal and carry isn't inherently wrong just because you remember a news episode of a lunatic who went on some kind of rampage abusing his C&C."
-stated in previous quote-

And neither is conceal and carry without question right for our school district just because we are all shocked and saddened with broken hearts after hearing in the news the recent horrible school tragedy.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#7 Dec 19, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
"Conceal and carry isn't inherently wrong just because you remember a news episode of a lunatic who went on some kind of rampage abusing his C&C."
-stated in previous quote-
And neither is conceal and carry without question right for our school district just because we are all shocked and saddened with broken hearts after hearing in the news the recent horrible school tragedy.
Whoever in the world said C&C in our schools would be "without question"?
Now is the time to discuss and debate these issues in both places like social media as well as the board room.

Newtown Massacusetts and the entire nation is in shock.
What do you think would be a relatively quiet, non-mediaworthy tragedy?
Not taking the necessary proactive defensive measures that may thwart the next attack.
Point Counter Point

Piqua, OH

#8 Dec 19, 2012
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
Whoever in the world said C&C in our schools would be "without question"?
Now is the time to discuss and debate these issues in both places like social media as well as the board room.
Newtown Massacusetts and the entire nation is in shock.
What do you think would be a relatively quiet, non-mediaworthy tragedy?
Not taking the necessary proactive defensive measures that may thwart the next attack.
Simmer down. You've have made your point that you are over anxious that "it could happen here" but others may feel just as strongly that emotional crisis such as this nation-wide shock can cloud good judgment. Why not go beyond the highly emotional shock talk of C&C and discuss and debate other "proactive defensive measures."
Whoever in the world said that C&C was the only necessary proactive defense measure that can be taken in Springboro schools?
Let's just all take a deep breath, stop promoting "it could happen here" because this call to action during this highly emotional time just smells too much like the political agenda "never let a crisis go to waste when it can be spent to further a political cause."
the worm turns

Germantown, OH

#9 Dec 19, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
Simmer down. You've have made your point that you are over anxious that "it could happen here" but others may feel just as strongly that emotional crisis such as this nation-wide shock can cloud good judgment. Why not go beyond the highly emotional shock talk of C&C and discuss and debate other "proactive defensive measures."
Whoever in the world said that C&C was the only necessary proactive defense measure that can be taken in Springboro schools?
Let's just all take a deep breath, stop promoting "it could happen here" because this call to action during this highly emotional time just smells too much like the political agenda "never let a crisis go to waste when it can be spent to further a political cause."
Don't really like the idea of defensive arms in our schools? That's fine. Rather than bashing through my points, why not formulate your own constructive argument? Honestly, I'm looking forward to reading them.
Point Counter Point

Piqua, OH

#10 Dec 19, 2012
the worm turns wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't really like the idea of defensive arms in our schools? That's fine. Rather than bashing through my points, why not formulate your own constructive argument? Honestly, I'm looking forward to reading them.
There is no bashing your points; just offering another point of view. I have no constructive arguments to offer, but lots of view points that differ from "it could happen here."

And to my understanding, according to Attorney General Mike DeWine, the State is not going to fund any such training that would be necessary to train school employees into Good Cops in the our classrooms and hallways; so there are no constructive "arguments." Facts are facts and No Money/No C&C training!
We already hear constantly from our Springboro teachers that they don't like intensive evaluations and they have too much to do and get too little pay; so where are school boards going to find the money in the school budget to pay for professionally training our educators to be K-12 daytime cops?
(And can you even imagine the possible opportunities here for our teachers union to sue the school district?)
Another point - It is ironic that our nations public schools have banned the teaching of God's laws that are written in stone, including "Thou Shalt Not Kill" but are now considering using our children's school tax dollars to train our teachers to kill.
Again, no argument against your point of view; just a different view.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#11 Dec 20, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no bashing your points; just offering another point of view. I have no constructive arguments to offer, but lots of view points that differ from "it could happen here."
And to my understanding, according to Attorney General Mike DeWine, the State is not going to fund any such training that would be necessary to train school employees into Good Cops in the our classrooms and hallways; so there are no constructive "arguments." Facts are facts and No Money/No C&C training!
We already hear constantly from our Springboro teachers that they don't like intensive evaluations and they have too much to do and get too little pay; so where are school boards going to find the money in the school budget to pay for professionally training our educators to be K-12 daytime cops?
There's absolutely no question the majority of Springboro teachers take great pride in the work they do. Instead of shoving words into their mouths don't you think it would be a wise thing for Springboro faculty to debate C&C amongst themselves and with the board? No, neither you nor I dare delve into Biblical or religious arguments regarding guns because there's far, far too many historic double standards.
A key point that you really need to understand regarding the terminology you choose. Job #1 for select undisclosed faculty would be to DEFEND fellow faculty and our school children OUR SCHOOLCHILDREN.
It's very apropos that you dropped Mike Dewine's name.
Please read the 2 links I posted below. Do you see anything regarding the State of Ohio not funding the hiring of retired police officers, and/or for C&C training of school faculty? Here's what our Ohio Attorney General had to say yesterday.
__________
“The truth is that, while we train first respond
ers, the real first responders in these tragedies are teachers,” Mr. DeWine said.“They’re the ones who are there. They’re the ones that are going to make the life and death decisions. They’re the ones that are going to do what they can do to save lives.
“By the time the first responders get there, we may already have a number of children killed,” he said.“That’s just the fact, no matter how good the first responders are or how fast they respond.… So it makes sense to be training (teachers and administrators) as well as law enforcement officers.”
He unveiled a partnership with the Department of Education and a variety of school and law enforcement organizations to extend training beyond law enforcement to teachers and principals to identify potential problems before they occur and to help them respond when they do occur.
But he stopped short of suggesting what an unarmed teacher or principal can do in the face of an armed shooter. Ohio law makes carrying guns into schools illegal. The question of proactively arming a security guard, teacher, or administrator will be a matter of discussion, Mr. DeWine said.
“If I was on a school board — and I’m not...It’s the toughest job there is...— I would seriously consider having someone in that school who may be an ex-police officer, someone who has significant training, who had access to a gun in a school,” he said.
“But you’d have to be very careful about it,” Mr. DeWine said.“I’m not saying everyone in school should be armed, but someone who knows exactly what they are doing who has that gun under lock and key and who can get to it instantly, that’s something I would at least debate and talk about in the school.”
http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2012/12/19/D...
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#12 Dec 20, 2012
from Wed 12/19/12
OH Attorney Gen Mike DeWine (continued)
__________

"You have to follow the plan,” he said.“Now I couldn’t tell you on those schools — I don’t know what schools they are — if they were following their plan or they weren’t following their plan. Maybe that’s what their plan said.…
“We cannot, unless we barricade our schools in this country, ensure that there’s never going to be a problem, but what we can do, and what is our moral obligation to do as citizens and elected officials, is to minimize the risk, to increase our odds of the kids surviving, and to decrease the odds of something happening,” Mr. DeWine said.
Damon Asbury, director of legislative services for the Ohio School Boards Association, said after the news conference that The Blade’s experience “illustrates the fact that, by and large, schools are open places where you expect parents and the community to be able to come in.”
“Most schools have established a process where you have to at least identify yourself,” Mr. Asbury said.“Schools have those procedures, but I think the fact that it didn’t happen is not a total surprise, given all the things that go on at a school every day. That illustrates the fact that schools have to put stronger procedures in place.”

http://www.toledoblade.com/Nation/2012/12/20/...
Twp resident

Germantown, OH

#13 Dec 20, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
And to my understanding, according to Attorney General Mike DeWine, the State is not going to fund any such training that would be necessary to train school employees into Good Cops in the our classrooms and hallways; so there are no constructive "arguments." Facts are facts and No Money/No C&C training!
Please provide for us a link in reference to the described position of Mike Dewine.
Twp resident

Germantown, OH

#14 Dec 20, 2012
Thursday's DDN page A10

Kelly Kohls, the president of the Springboro school board, said the conversation about arming school staff members has come up in board discussions. She said a great deal of research would have to be conducted before any decisions are made.
"It's a scary thought to me to have a gun in the building, but from what I'm hearing, if there were one or two armed people in the (Sandy Hook) building, they certainly would have been able to stop the murders sooner," Kohls said. "We just want to keep the kids safe; we're just not sure what route to take."
"I think we'd consider anything to protect our students, but how we would do that is to develop a series of plans," Kohls said.
Point Counter Point

Piqua, OH

#15 Dec 20, 2012
Twp resident wrote:
Thursday's DDN page A10
Kelly Kohls, the president of the Springboro school board, said the conversation about arming school staff members has come up in board discussions. She said a great deal of research would have to be conducted before any decisions are made.
"It's a scary thought to me to have a gun in the building, but from what I'm hearing, if there were one or two armed people in the (Sandy Hook) building, they certainly would have been able to stop the murders sooner," Kohls said. "We just want to keep the kids safe; we're just not sure what route to take."
"I think we'd consider anything to protect our students, but how we would do that is to develop a series of plans," Kohls said.
All Good Points.
However, do you think that that "one or two armed people in a building" is enough. The main point is that we all want to keep our kids and faculty safe. And if we think armed people is one of the solutions, then why should every classroom of kids not have at least one armed person? Even So, "It's a scary thought to me to have a gun in the building." Hopefully, we'll hear some plans develop on armed security outside the buildings as the best deterent to armed attackers getting inside.
Just Asking

Piqua, OH

#16 Dec 20, 2012
So what do we do now? We know by example that taking away guns is senseless. We could stage police with gun snifing K9's at every entrance, and / or metal detectors. No, that would be way too costly. Taxpayers as a whole would never foot the bill for that.
(stated in above post "It Could Happen Here")....

Too costly, you say?
If our school district can partner with our Springboro City government and Clearcreek Township government to cover Wade Field with synthetic turf, then why can't our schools and city/township governments partner for necessary "armed security" outside our schools to keep our kids and faculty safe on the inside of our public schools?
If Clearcreek Township Trustees can vote $173,000 of the people's taxes be spent in 2013 to donate to Springboro Parks for more soccer fields, then why can't our taxes be used for increased public security officers outside our school buildings to keep our kids and faculty safe on the inside?
Public education is the expertise of school teachers and administrators. Public safety is the expertise of our local law enforcement officers.
Let each community worker serve the public in their own realm of expertise and working together we'll build strong schools/strong community.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#17 Dec 20, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
All Good Points.
However, do you think that that "one or two armed people in a building" is enough. The main point is that we all want to keep our kids and faculty safe. And if we think armed people is one of the solutions, then why should every classroom of kids not have at least one armed person?
Please! Did you take time to read DeWine's opinion? I thought you & I were having an intelligent debate.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#18 Dec 20, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
And to my understanding, according to Attorney General Mike DeWine, the State is not going to fund any such training that would be necessary to train school employees into Good Cops in the our classrooms and hallways; so there are no constructive "arguments." Facts are facts and No Money/No C&C training!
You have yet to post proof of this, other than it's "your" understanding.
Point Counter Point

Piqua, OH

#19 Dec 22, 2012
it could happen here wrote:
<quoted text>
You have yet to post proof of this, other than it's "your" understanding.
Excuse me, but "it is my understanding" is a statement of opinion and no one is required to Prove an "opinion." After reading all your califying "proof" that Springboro teachers and principals should have concealed weapons, it is still my "opinion" that
there are better ways to strengthen security and the my answer to your question is No.
it could happen here

Germantown, OH

#20 Dec 23, 2012
Point Counter Point wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse me, but "it is my understanding" is a statement of opinion and no one is required to Prove an "opinion." After reading all your califying "proof" that Springboro teachers and principals should have concealed weapons, it is still my "opinion" that
there are better ways to strengthen security and the my answer to your question is No.
So to conclude this point, your answer is "no".
At least as of 12/17, the day you posted your "opinion", Attorney General Mike DeWine HAD NOT made a public statement regarding the State of Ohio and funding of hiring armed police officers and or for C&C training of select faculty.

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