Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in...

Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

There are 2047 comments on the EMS1 story from Feb 1, 2013, titled Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio. In it, EMS1 reports that:

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EMS1.

poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#843 Apr 19, 2013
Across America cities are going bankrupt. You can blame unions, politicians, workers, voters, retirees or anyone else that you want to. The simple fact is that city politicians have made promises that they cannot keep. The money simply isn't there.

On top of that, add Wall Street's use of mob tactics to screw the average taxpayer, or the corruption by political sheisters to ensure that their cronies are awarded contracts for millions, while providing sub-standard goods and services.

Our entire system is corrupted. You cannot trust any politicians from either party.

With the price of health care, gas, groceries, utilities, etc. ALL going up, we the taxpayer have had enough.

Everyone needs to do more with less. I'm tired of being drained of money.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#844 Apr 19, 2013
From the news, at least 11 first responders (fire fighters and EMTs) were killed in the explosion in West, Texas saving community members.

Can we quit bickering for a day in their honor?
Tell It Like It Is

Piqua, OH

#845 Apr 19, 2013
Lurker wrote:
From the news, at least 11 first responders (fire fighters and EMTs) were killed in the explosion in West, Texas saving community members.
Can we quit bickering for a day in their honor?
The way I see it, Can't Lurker quit pushing the political agenda of "Never let a crisis go to waste" that you can USE to unions emotionally blackmail taxpayers into passing a Fire, levy that we don't need, but that the Firefighters Union has decided "the time has come for us to ask you to help us continue to help you."

Shame on you, Lurker,(and the others bickering for tax increases on the fire levy blog) for trying to connect national tragedies to Springboro firefighters and EMTs with these unionized "tactics" of "scaring" out the vote on May 7th.

LOL Lurker, what a lame and pathetic "dishonor" you have shown on this blog.
really

Englewood, OH

#846 Apr 19, 2013
Tell It Like It Is wrote:
<quoted text>
The way I see it, Can't Lurker quit pushing the political agenda of "Never let a crisis go to waste" that you can USE to unions emotionally blackmail taxpayers into passing a Fire, levy that we don't need, but that the Firefighters Union has decided "the time has come for us to ask you to help us continue to help you."
Shame on you, Lurker,(and the others bickering for tax increases on the fire levy blog) for trying to connect national tragedies to Springboro firefighters and EMTs with these unionized "tactics" of "scaring" out the vote on May 7th.
LOL Lurker, what a lame and pathetic "dishonor" you have shown on this blog.
Wow...I was planning to honor lurker's request, and to an extent I will. I will restrain from addressing the actual levy issue out of respect for the fallen public safety personnel.

However, I must say, "Tell It Like It Is", you are the biggest douchebag I've ever seen in my life. Bar none. That is all.
Here Come da Judge

Piqua, OH

#847 Apr 19, 2013
really wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow...I was planning to honor lurker's request, and to an extent I will. I will restrain from addressing the actual levy issue out of respect for the fallen public safety personnel.
However, I must say, "Tell It Like It Is", you are the biggest douchebag I've ever seen in my life. Bar none. That is all.
Right back atcha, you honorable hypocrite. The judgement you render to others is the judgement of others rendered right back at you.
Tired of Forced Unionism

Piqua, OH

#848 Apr 19, 2013
poundsand wrote:
Across America cities are going bankrupt. You can blame unions, politicians, workers, voters, retirees or anyone else that you want to. The simple fact is that city politicians have made promises that they cannot keep. The money simply isn't there.
On top of that, add Wall Street's use of mob tactics to screw the average taxpayer, or the corruption by political sheisters to ensure that their cronies are awarded contracts for millions, while providing sub-standard goods and services.
Our entire system is corrupted. You cannot trust any politicians from either party.
With the price of health care, gas, groceries, utilities, etc. ALL going up, we the taxpayer have had enough.
Everyone needs to do more with less. I'm tired of being drained of money.
Ohioans live with a basic reality. Taxpayers never get a break from the heavy burden of paying higher and higher taxes.
Most local governments, whose revenue comes from property taxes typically predict that compensation package costs, the single largest component of local budgets, will rise roughly FIVE percent or more year after year. This means that property taxes must inevitably rise to cover these generous compensation package increases.
Since taxpayers never get a break, local taxes rarely, IF EVER, get lowered. Fact is, local governments constantly seek higher income taxes.

But MOST IMPORTANTLY, Ohioans already provide state and local governments with a generous level of tax revenue that should cover the cost of providing government goods and services.
Ohio does not suffer from a lack of revenue. If state and local governments had restrained spending even just a bit over the last two decades, those entities would not NEED another dime of tax revenue!

Now the only way to treat this out of control addiction the government has to OUR MONEY is simply go Cold Turkey and Always Say No to local governments running levies for New Taxes.
No more easy fixes -- local government leaders simply must cut expenses, reform budgets, and learn to provide services to taxpayers, while living with their means.
LOL in Boro

Piqua, OH

#849 Apr 19, 2013
boromama13 wrote:
I wonder how difficult it would be for West, TX or Boston, MA to pass a fire levy right now. Seems no one fully appreciates their first responders till something like that happens.
I want the Clearcreek / Springboro firefighters ready to respond, I'm voting yes.
For sure it seems like our union masters always fully appreciate every opportunity to exploit their liberal mantra "never let a crisis go to waste!"
How pathetic to even bring this "warning" up on this blog?
Shame on you boromama13, seeking to "emotionally" link national tragedies to the proposed tax increase for our Springboro Firefighters Union. Can we all now say the big scary mantra
in unison: "The time has come for us to ask you to help us continue to help you." oooh! be very afraid to say NO to more for for the government.
wake up

Englewood, OH

#850 Apr 19, 2013
Our police and fire personnel risk their lives on a daily basis to help protect and serve the community. WAKE UP!!!! Everyone who is against this levy are cold hearted, selfish, and downright shameful. Sad part about it, most of them claim to be Christians.
focus

United States

#851 Apr 19, 2013
wake up wrote:
Our police and fire personnel risk their lives on a daily basis to help protect and serve the community. WAKE UP!!!! Everyone who is against this levy are cold hearted, selfish, and downright shameful. Sad part about it, most of them claim to be Christians.
Right on!!
focus

Dayton, OH

#852 Apr 20, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
Right on!!
public record, you're a moron and Wade goon.. oxymoron, sorry.

VOTE NO on pay raises !

Vote Wade out !

FIRE PICKETT !

Keep you hard earned dollars in your pocket, not the township coffers !
formerboss

United States

#853 Apr 20, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
public record, you're a moron and Wade goon.. oxymoron, sorry.
VOTE NO on pay raises !
Vote Wade out !
FIRE PICKETT !
Keep you hard earned dollars in your pocket, not the township coffers !
How long ago has it been now since the township fired you??
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#854 Apr 20, 2013
wake up wrote:
Our police and fire personnel risk their lives on a daily basis to help protect and serve the community. WAKE UP!!!! Everyone who is against this levy are cold hearted, selfish, and downright shameful. Sad part about it, most of them claim to be Christians.
Check out the Springboro Sun each week for the fire/ambulance runs.
During the past two weeks only TWO runs were structure fires. Taxpayers are now learning that the government bills the resident and their insurance company for ambulance service. To my understanding of public records, taxpayers are already generating funds needed for public safety, with the continuing 2001 levy and an ADDITIONAL continuing levy is not necessary. As a responsible neighbor, I will NOT vote a tax increase on my neighbors homes; some of whom are paying taxes out of their dwindling retirement savings; while double dipping Mr. Pickett (who is so out of touch with Real people) runs into an early morning meeting witrh Mr. Kidd, and within four minutes, Mr. Gabbard and Mr. Wade agrees that The time has come for us to ask you to help us continue to help you! Please, give us break from this government-forced charity malarky! We are already paying the township government for services "rendered" and we cannot afford another "double dipping"
of high cost government services.
focus

Dayton, OH

#855 Apr 20, 2013
formerboss wrote:
<quoted text>
How long ago has it been now since the township fired you??
public record, come on now, stop acting like a child..you are fooling no one with all those aliases.
Amen

Piqua, OH

#856 Apr 20, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
public record, you're a moron and Wade goon.. oxymoron, sorry.
VOTE NO on pay raises !
Vote Wade out !
FIRE PICKETT !
Keep you hard earned dollars in your pocket, not the township coffers !
Now That Is Preaching The Truth!

This Issue 3 is all about MORE Government Worker Compensation Benefits... benefitting the firefighters Union....and NO extra benefit in services to heavily tax-burdened local homeowners.
The Truth

Englewood, OH

#857 Apr 20, 2013
Interesting how the conversation on here has changed in some ways, but in other ways stays very much the same.

It's clear those opposed to the levy dislike the township. There are rampant complaints about elected leadership, the administration, and the way the grass is mowed at the township building. The reality is that this thread is discussing a fire levy, which is for the Clearcreek Fire District (as specifically stated in the language on my absentee ballot). Issues of park land purchases, soccer fields, and on and on continue to be brought up as a means of distraction from the real topic at hand.

It's clear those opposed to the levy dislike those who are retire/rehires, or "double dippers". It seems there is one point missing though. The reality is that not one of the firefighters is a double dipper. That includes the fire chief right down to the newest person on the truck. Not one. Somehow that part seems to be left out of the arguments.

It's clear those opposed to the levy feel they are over taxed in this community. The reality is that citizens living in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest property tax rates in the region according to the Dayton Daily News ( http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca... ). While this isn't a reason to approve a levy in and of itself, it does clearly rebut the claim that this community has some huge rate of taxation.

It's clear those opposed to the levy have some impression that the issue is related to raises. The reality is that the levy is needed to meet the increasing operational costs of the district. When the last fire levy was passed in 2001, the cost of a gallon of diesel fuel was $1.86. Today that cost has increased to $3.43. Last year alone, one of the ambulances consumed 1,743 gallons of diesel making transports back and forth to the hospital. The cost of doing business is going up in both the private and public sector, and that is simply the result of inflation.

It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that billing EMS patients is the solution to covering the gap left by flat revenues and growing expenses. The reality is that ambulance billing is a very small fraction of overall revenue. The medical supplies used by paramedics to treat patients can be very expensive. Insurance usually pays around $400 for an ambulance run. Medical supplies run between $250 and $1,000 per call. Over the medical supply costs there is still a need to purchase, maintain, and staff the ambulances, and that costs money.

It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that a little bit of belt-tightening is all that should be necessary, and that belt-tightening can be accomplished without reducing the services we currently receive. The reality is that various cost savings measures allowed the fire district to go 12 years on what was projected to be 10 years of funding. With inflation the way it is, the only way to operate within the flat funding stream is to reduce services as the cost of providing those services continues to rise.

It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that additional homeowners moving into the community leads to increased revenue for the fire district. The reality is that as more homes are built, the demand for service increases but the revenue generated remains unchanged.

Ignore the rhetoric. Take the time to be informed. Ask the questions and get the facts like I did.

Ultimately, remember that the safety of the community is up to us as voters. SAY YES to 3!
The Truth

Englewood, OH

#858 Apr 20, 2013
The TRUTH is that our fire department relies on the community as much as we rely on them.

The TRUTH is that our fire department has been responsible with public funds, making a 10 year levy last 12 years.

The TRUTH is that our fire department has only asked taxpayers for two levies in the last 26 years.

The TRUTH is that federal grants have been obtained to offset the local costs for over $2 million in necessary equipment.

The TRUTH is that the fire department annual budget is less than most comparable departments in this region.

The TRUTH is that the fire department is responding to over 44% more emergencies today than were handled when the last levy was passed.

The TRUTH is that firefighter positions have been left vacant to save funds, prolonging the need for a levy as long as possible.

The TRUTH is that the fire department has worked extensively to contain costs, not just because of the economic situation but as a standard practice.

The TRUTH is that our firefighters are hard working, deeply committed individuals, not slaves of a labor union.

The TRUTH is that our fire department's ability to handle emergencies plays a significant role in our homeowner's insurance rates.

The TRUTH is that current response times, maintained with the levy, allow paramedics to treat critical patients before irreversible brain damage occurs.

The TRUTH is that neighbors, parents, grandparents, coaches, pastors, business owners, elected officials, and many others have publicly endorsed the levy.

The TRUTH is that our fire department needs our support to continue the excellent service we receive from them.

The TRUTH is that your vote counts, and you have an opportunity to step up and help those that help us when we need it most - when it is our family in harms way.

COME MAY 7th - VOTE YES ON 3!!
focus

Dayton, OH

#859 Apr 20, 2013
The Truth wrote:
Interesting how the conversation on here has changed in some ways, but in other ways stays very much the same.
It's clear those opposed to the levy dislike the township. There are rampant complaints about elected leadership, the administration, and the way the grass is mowed at the township building. The reality is that this thread is discussing a fire levy, which is for the Clearcreek Fire District (as specifically stated in the language on my absentee ballot). Issues of park land purchases, soccer fields, and on and on continue to be brought up as a means of distraction from the real topic at hand.
It's clear those opposed to the levy dislike those who are retire/rehires, or "double dippers". It seems there is one point missing though. The reality is that not one of the firefighters is a double dipper. That includes the fire chief right down to the newest person on the truck. Not one. Somehow that part seems to be left out of the arguments.
It's clear those opposed to the levy feel they are over taxed in this community. The reality is that citizens living in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest property tax rates in the region according to the Dayton Daily News ( http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca... ). While this isn't a reason to approve a levy in and of itself, it does clearly rebut the claim that this community has some huge rate of taxation.
It's clear those opposed to the levy have some impression that the issue is related to raises. The reality is that the levy is needed to meet the increasing operational costs of the district. When the last fire levy was passed in 2001, the cost of a gallon of diesel fuel was $1.86. Today that cost has increased to $3.43. Last year alone, one of the ambulances consumed 1,743 gallons of diesel making transports back and forth to the hospital. The cost of doing business is going up in both the private and public sector, and that is simply the result of inflation.
It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that billing EMS patients is the solution to covering the gap left by flat revenues and growing expenses. The reality is that ambulance billing is a very small fraction of overall revenue. The medical supplies used by paramedics to treat patients can be very expensive. Insurance usually pays around $400 for an ambulance run. Medical supplies run between $250 and $1,000 per call. Over the medical supply costs there is still a need to purchase, maintain, and staff the ambulances, and that costs money.
It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that a little bit of belt-tightening is all that should be necessary, and that belt-tightening can be accomplished without reducing the services we currently receive. The reality is that various cost savings measures allowed the fire district to go 12 years on what was projected to be 10 years of funding. With inflation the way it is, the only way to operate within the flat funding stream is to reduce services as the cost of providing those services continues to rise.
It's clear those opposed to the levy believe that additional homeowners moving into the community leads to increased revenue for the fire district. The reality is that as more homes are built, the demand for service increases but the revenue generated remains unchanged.
Ignore the rhetoric. Take the time to be informed. Ask the questions and get the facts like I did.
Ultimately, remember that the safety of the community is up to us as voters. SAY YES to 3!
It's also clear this is a free country with the freedom of choice. I choose to VOTE NO to pay raises !
Public Record

United States

#860 Apr 20, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
It's also clear this is a free country with the freedom of choice. I choose to VOTE NO to pay raises !
Did you read any of that? It appears you missed one of the main points...this isn't about pay raises.
focus

Dayton, OH

#861 Apr 20, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you read any of that? It appears you missed one of the main points...this isn't about pay raises.
then Dale Lamb is lying ?...One of Wade's stooge's.
Public Record

United States

#862 Apr 20, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
then Dale Lamb is lying ?...One of Wade's stooge's.
If that's the source your claiming, then if you are being honest then I can only assume there was a miscommunication somewhere before your info reached you.

The truth is that this levy is to cover the cost of inflation's effects on operating costs. A good example is given above regarding the cost of diesel, and we can all relate to that.

Dale Lamb supports the fire levy, as told by the huge sign in his front yard.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Miamisburg Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Our recommendation: Springboro voters should sa... (Feb '08) Aug 25 For the Record 31,883
a woman named barbie??? (Feb '13) Aug 22 Goodnews 8
Child Molester living in Seibert Platt (Mar '14) Aug 13 sickfuk 6
Miamisburg Mafia 3rd generation (Apr '13) Aug 2 Montie 4
Wants to know Jul '15 Blu sky 1
Friend Jul '15 Blu sky 1
Springboro homewreckers (Jul '11) Jul '15 enough now 24
More from around the web

Personal Finance

Miamisburg Mortgages