Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

Feb 1, 2013 Full story: EMS1 2,046

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

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Public Record

United States

#822 Apr 18, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
no money less people? what..firemen are going to quit and go eslewhere, in this economy..good luck. One of your own previous trustees stated to a friend of mine that it's about pay raises..that former trustee being dale lamb...and half of my block is voting no to tax hikes...!
So your whole opinion is based on something you heard from a friend who heard it from a former trustee who heard it.......

You make yourself sound like more and more of an idiot every time you post.

Its become comical!

Wonder what focus will say next? Tune in, I'm sure it will be something insightful that will make his mother proud.

Or at least make the rest of us laugh!
The Record Speaks

Piqua, OH

#823 Apr 18, 2013
Tired of Focus wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe no one is able to address all of the hate and lies you spew. Check your facts!
1) Prove your double dippers
2) Check where money is allowed to be used i.e. levy use. I would encourage you to go to the Ohio Revised Code. Fire and Police levies may only be used for the stated purpose.
3) We know you hate Wade and Picket, get some new material
4) Comparing deprtments- seems responable
Clearcreek spends less and serves as many people. Odd, seems like a good thing. That was information I needed
5) You note the funds, but avoid expenses. If income exceeds expense, you go negative. So cut or get more money.
6) No money = less people, Less people = less help
7) Compare pay between this department and others, Are township fire fighters and chiefs paid the same as other places? I care and I am sure you don't. I prefer people helping me to be at the top of their profession.
8) My entire cul de sac have signs supporting the fire department and we will vote for them.
9) In parting, My family and neighbors support the fire department.
We WILL Vote YES on 3
Excuse me, but public records that are available to all citizens upon request of our retired/rehired Towsnhip Government employess do PROVE that our Township Administrator and Township Administrator Assistant ARE among the double dippers.
focus

Dayton, OH

#824 Apr 18, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
So your whole opinion is based on something you heard from a friend who heard it from a former trustee who heard it.......
You make yourself sound like more and more of an idiot every time you post.
Its become comical!
Wonder what focus will say next? Tune in, I'm sure it will be something insightful that will make his mother proud.
Or at least make the rest of us laugh!
public record, you are so arrogant and rude, you make voting against this levy easier by the moment for folks who are straddling the fence. The truth is comical...it might be when you're trying to gloss over the facts, trying to ram this levy down our throats....not this time, spin mister. BTW, my friend has been in the Springboro area probably longer than the list of aliases you use.
Tired of Focus

Youngstown, OH

#825 Apr 18, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
no money less people? what..firemen are going to quit and go eslewhere, in this economy..good luck. One of your own previous trustees stated to a friend of mine that it's about pay raises..that former trustee being dale lamb...and half of my block is voting no to tax hikes...!
No they won't quit, they would lose their jobs. Fairly easy to figure out. I did get a copy of their budget 84% of the budget goes to personnel cost. Once again less money, less people.

Wow you go for Pickett as a double dipper and he does not work at the fire department. How many of the fire department people are, oh wait... none

Glad me and my neighbors have you beat, you have half og yours and I have all of mine... My guess, they just want you to go away too
focus

Dayton, OH

#826 Apr 18, 2013
Tired of Focus wrote:
<quoted text>
No they won't quit, they would lose their jobs. Fairly easy to figure out. I did get a copy of their budget 84% of the budget goes to personnel cost. Once again less money, less people.
Wow you go for Pickett as a double dipper and he does not work at the fire department. How many of the fire department people are, oh wait... none
Glad me and my neighbors have you beat, you have half og yours and I have all of mine... My guess, they just want you to go away too
do try and focus....the fire dept will do anything for wade and his goons to get what they want and visa versa..two peas in a pod...are you people that blind?.... apparently so...
Reality Bytes

Piqua, OH

#827 Apr 18, 2013
FD Man wrote:
www.YesTo3.com
Call the Fire Department and talk to the guys yourself, or email them on the website. This levy is important to all of us, and our ability to continue to protect you. Its not scare tactics, its facts. If you notice the campaign doesn't focus on what happens if we don't pass a levy at all. Instead we explain about the 50% increase in run volume and the 50% increase in population that we need to be able to keep up with. Then for those that want to know there is a some info that explains what happens without this levy...
We aren't building a new station, we aren't creating any new positions. We are just trying to keep doing what we have been doing.
If you are satisfied with our current level of service, and want to keep it. The only way is a YES vote. If you vote no, we will lower our level of service to stretch our budget out further until we eventually run out of money. We are currently operating at a large deficit due to increasing costs (run volume, cost of diesel and utilities, etc) which is why we need this levy.
Good services cost money. Please learn the facts and vote Yes To 3 to protect Springboro and Clearcreek Township.
www.YesTo3.com
Those of our neighbors who cannot afford to pay increased taxes to the government will just have to say NO and live with the reality that we simply cannot pay our local government leaders enough to meet our every need and do it quicker and more improved than
before. Concerned citizens should start calling the FD asking
that a public meeting be held after the levy fails, and before any services are cut to taxpayers, then we should have input into exactly what taxpayers want to see cut. It is only ligical that if the levy fails and a fire station is closed, then a fire captian manning that station will be fired. Now common sense asks that if the levy fails, INSTEAD of closing a fire station and firing a captain; would it not be in the public's best interest to simply fire the last captain that was hired and doesn't even have a fire station? It's amazing what human beings who care about one another can accomplish by working together problem solving our financial woes and setting priorities.
To my understanding of financials, the 2001 Continuing Levy is generating adequate funds to cover our fire department budget.
There is no way that responsible voters can say yes to another ADDITIONAL continuing levy. But the government could find a way to continue providing public safety services without this additional continuing levy! That tax increase is Huge and Unaffordable.
Question Everything

Piqua, OH

#828 Apr 18, 2013
Transparency Please wrote:
<quoted text>
Just the Facts is more symbolism than substance.
Disclosure, as the definition of transparent provides citizens with a window in which to view a process. By adding the ability to have discussion around that process provides citizens with a seat at the table in which to collaborate about the content that is being presented to them and what it means.
Are the financial accounts of the HC/benfits/life insurance/retirement/vacation days/sick days/personal days
pay schedules posted on the Clearcreek Township Government Center website?

Perhaps the Government could look at "how much taxpayers are helping the government" and perhaps The time has come for our local government to ask how can the government help us keep our communities both SAFE and AFFORDABLE for all (even our pro-levy lovers who just want to give more could make a charitable donation to our local firefighters/emts.
focus

Dayton, OH

#830 Apr 18, 2013
after hours..Dennis Pickett and his slackers can't be bothered...for they aren't paid for spreading b.s. after hours..
Public Record

United States

#831 Apr 18, 2013
focus wrote:
after hours..Dennis Pickett and his slackers can't be bothered...for they aren't paid for spreading b.s. after hours..
Maybe they're still busy with the town hall meeting. Did you go out there?
my 2 cents worth

Bucyrus, OH

#832 Apr 19, 2013
Can it be true that Mr Pickett makes 85 thousand dollars and gets 5 weeks vaca time? Can it be true that that he has an assistant
Mr Ronald Wilhelm that makes 89,020.61. Can it be true that our fire chief Mr Robert Kidd III makes 91,661.76 and uses one of our cars for personal use. Can it be true that Mr Kidd III hired 2 assistants Timothy Simpson and Christopher Vecchi and then just gave them a nice pay increase each to 84,525.00 each. Can it be true that we have a zoning person named Mr Jeff Palmer that makes 78,054.08 and he has an assistant Lori Burton that makes 17.56 per hr. Can it be true that our police chief Mr John Terrill makes 88,218.96. Can it be true that our little township just invested 14 million dollars of un used tax dollars in to our investment account. Can it be true that after reading this these people have the nerve to ask me and my neighbors for another 5 million dollars, I don't think so. I say cut the fat save some of my money use it wisely and put a stop to wasteful spending.
We have already voted NO on this levy! I think you should too.
Public Record

United States

#833 Apr 19, 2013
my 2 cents worth wrote:
Can it be true that Mr Pickett makes 85 thousand dollars and gets 5 weeks vaca time? Can it be true that that he has an assistant
Mr Ronald Wilhelm that makes 89,020.61. Can it be true that our fire chief Mr Robert Kidd III makes 91,661.76 and uses one of our cars for personal use. Can it be true that Mr Kidd III hired 2 assistants Timothy Simpson and Christopher Vecchi and then just gave them a nice pay increase each to 84,525.00 each. Can it be true that we have a zoning person named Mr Jeff Palmer that makes 78,054.08 and he has an assistant Lori Burton that makes 17.56 per hr. Can it be true that our police chief Mr John Terrill makes 88,218.96. Can it be true that our little township just invested 14 million dollars of un used tax dollars in to our investment account. Can it be true that after reading this these people have the nerve to ask me and my neighbors for another 5 million dollars, I don't think so. I say cut the fat save some of my money use it wisely and put a stop to wasteful spending.
We have already voted NO on this levy! I think you should too.
Most of that is either untrue or completely unrelated to the fire levy.

I'm glad you exercised your right to vote. Even though it was out of ignorance and blind allegiance to the tea party rhetoric, you're in the minority that cared enough to express an opinion.

My family, my friends, my neighbors, and many many others have already voted YES on ISSUE 3! Come May 7th, we'll all be able to exercise the same freedom to say YES TO 3 to maintain our public safety for years to come.
Mannerly Speaking

Piqua, OH

#834 Apr 19, 2013
really wrote:
<quoted text>
Hopefully she'll be able to rub those nickels together and make bail after she's indicted for obstructing justice and bribary for paying off a police officer when her kids got themselves into trouble with the law. Good thing she'll be gone in November!
Do you have a nasty suspension that you REALLY went over the top, REALLY pushing your unionism politics of personal destruction, attacking character instead of sticking to the important message of this May 7th vote, either Yes or No to this huge tax increase proposal? Then why not make amends on this blog and apologize?

The time has come for struggling taxpayers to ask the pro-levy lovers to help us taxpaying homeowners to promote respect among all neighbors, regardless of differences in ways that each of us feels our tax dollars should be spent by the Clearcreek Township Government workers.
No Reason At All

Piqua, OH

#835 Apr 19, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe they're still busy with the town hall meeting. Did you go out there?
There was no reason at all to attend the Firefighters Union pep rally, expounding from the bully pulpit "The time has come for us to ask you to help us continue to help you." Just Too Little, Too Late. The time has passed for the Firefighters Union to open up a town hall meeting providing transparency in their budget educating taxpayers as to how our money is being spent and why more money is being requested. The right time for the town hall meeting would have been BEFORE the ADDITIONAL LEVY was voted on. The time has come now for taxpaying homeowners to just say NO on May 7th to this ADDITIONAL Continuing levy.
Then there will be reason to attend a Town Hall meeting to give input to Mr. Pickett and Mr. Kidd because the time has come for our Township government to live within our means and STOP threatening to endanger our safety by shutting down a fire station as punishment to our community IF voters refuse to pay our Township government workers MORE.
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#836 Apr 19, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of that is either untrue or completely unrelated to the fire levy.
I'm glad you exercised your right to vote. Even though it was out of ignorance and blind allegiance to the tea party rhetoric, you're in the minority that cared enough to express an opinion.
My family, my friends, my neighbors, and many many others have already voted YES on ISSUE 3! Come May 7th, we'll all be able to exercise the same freedom to say YES TO 3 to maintain our public safety for years to come.
Most of that Public Record is either untrue or completely unrelated to the fire levy.

Just more status quo emotional/financial blackmailing of local taxpaying homeowners by the pro-levy lovers of forced unionization.
This May 7th proposed Additional Continuing levy will only satisfy the Firefighters Union addiction of demanding MORE and MORE of our money for ONLY eight years to come.
Read it and Learn -- The Firefighters Union "Promise" to come back for MORE in just EIGHT years.
The time has come on May 7th to take responsible action allowing our Firefighters Union to begin their 'withdrawal' from addiction to more and more of OUR money.
The time has come on May 7th to say NO, Thank you, but we can not afford to pay more for an Easy Fix any more. Time for Mr. Kidd and Mr. Pickett to HELP TAXPAYERS HELP THE FIREFIGHTERS UNION to start that difficult healing process, reforming FD budget and cutting big Administrative costs BEFORE asking over-burdened taxpayers for More of OUR money.
We have full confidence that Our Township Government highly paid administrators CAN and WIll get to work making tough decisions necessary to PRIORITIZE our public safety needs.
Healthy Choice

Piqua, OH

#837 Apr 19, 2013
my 2 cents worth wrote:
Can it be true that Mr Pickett makes 85 thousand dollars and gets 5 weeks vaca time? Can it be true that that he has an assistant
Mr Ronald Wilhelm that makes 89,020.61. Can it be true that our fire chief Mr Robert Kidd III makes 91,661.76 and uses one of our cars for personal use. Can it be true that Mr Kidd III hired 2 assistants Timothy Simpson and Christopher Vecchi and then just gave them a nice pay increase each to 84,525.00 each. Can it be true that we have a zoning person named Mr Jeff Palmer that makes 78,054.08 and he has an assistant Lori Burton that makes 17.56 per hr. Can it be true that our police chief Mr John Terrill makes 88,218.96. Can it be true that our little township just invested 14 million dollars of un used tax dollars in to our investment account. Can it be true that after reading this these people have the nerve to ask me and my neighbors for another 5 million dollars, I don't think so. I say cut the fat save some of my money use it wisely and put a stop to wasteful spending.
We have already voted NO on this levy! I think you should too.
To my understanding of Clearcreek Township Government public records (which are available to all citizens upon request) the
truth is as questioned.

Public record proves that only Two township trustees agreed to vote for the May 7th levy; and ONE trustee voted NO to more money for the township government. Now it is easy to see why the firefighters union/pro levy lovers would set out on this community blog to "trash and slash" the character of the ONE trustee who DARED consider the best interest of already heavily tax-burdened LOCAL homeowners. As for me and my household of voters, even if we could afford voting increased taxes on our home, we would still vote NO on May 7th. This politics of personal destruction (war of words to distract, discredit and attack character)launched by our pro-levy neighbors, against their fiscally responsible neighbors, is not our politics of choice, and the tone and tenor of the supporters of the levy on this blog is neither healthy NOR productive for our community as a whole.
Healthy Choice

Piqua, OH

#838 Apr 19, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of that is either untrue or completely unrelated to the fire levy.
I'm glad you exercised your right to vote. Even though it was out of ignorance and blind allegiance to the tea party rhetoric, you're in the minority that cared enough to express an opinion.
My family, my friends, my neighbors, and many many others have already voted YES on ISSUE 3! Come May 7th, we'll all be able to exercise the same freedom to say YES TO 3 to maintain our public safety for years to come.
For Public Record ... Are you going on Public Record as a public spokesperson for our local Firefighters Union OR our Clearcreek Township Government Leaders?

In the best interest of community spirit, should you not choose a more fitting name for your comments, perhaps "Personal Opinion?"

We all enjoy freedom of individual expression of our political differences. That is both good and healthy for both sides of
the Issue 3 public discussion. But, using Public Record to personally JUDGE those with whom you disagree, with this unhealthy choice of words, is not in the best interest of well being for our community as a whole.

For Public Record....Don't you think you went a little over the top in your "war of words" against your neighbors with whom you politically disagree, and even degrading......
......."your right to vote. Even though it was out of ignorance and blind allegiance to the tea party rhetoric, you're in the minority that cared enough to express an opinion."....

Should you care enough, for Public Record, to apologize?
Say It Again

Piqua, OH

#839 Apr 19, 2013
Wades World Clearcreek wrote:
Yes the township will bill you and your insurance company if they respond to your home. Yes even if you are a tax paying clearcreek resident. BUT what they don't want to you know is this. When they bill you for service and you can't pay, after 3 times they drop it.
Only way to put A stop to the stupid spending in the township is to stop the money flow. Make sure you vote HELL NO on May 7th. These cowards are afraid to even put the word "LEVY" on their signs. They are just trying to bleed us again so Dennis pickett can retire "AGAIN" with a little dignity. I say do like we all are doing tighten your belt stop using my vehicles for "personal use" and put a dam time clock in the the township. I want to see just how much time is spent on the job. Focus, and boromomma13 take your mits off the keyboard and read the contract Mr. Pickett made for himself when he was "REHIRED" by Ed Wade. Mr Wade told me and the people in the meeting he just couldn't find a persn to fill Picketts shoes for 84K a year, hold on a minute, I just puked. Then spend another 12K for a company to tell him that. Hey maybe you will puke and bump your head and maybe see the light of day. If the real facts hurt then you should pull that rock back over your head, cause you aint seen nothing yet.
More comments about Double Dipping, you can find out how many people in your local schools, local townships and Cities are retired and rehired. Ask for the records of whom is currently a retire rehire and how much they make. It is a public record and is your right to know.

It happened right here in Clearcreek Township. When Dennis Pickett retired July a year ago, Trustee President Mr Ed Wade couldn't wait the 75 days required by law to rehire Mr Picket so he could join the ranks of the double dippers too. With 5,000.00 per month from the township retirement, then add that to his new salary of 84,000.00 and that does not include his car allowance and several other perks, the one I like is he can come to work or not,(no joke). He can choose to come to work when at his own choice. That comes to about what most of us hard working tax payers make, 144,000.00, RIGHT!
The only way to put a stop to these buzzards flying around the pot of gold is to stop voting ourselves NEW taxes. When we all do that, then the public workers will come down to earth, like us.

They will never realize that our financial crisis is due to their spending, padding government pockets, protecting each other, taking from the real work force until we stop handing it over to them. Take these spenders out of office, say no to new taxes, downsize your tax burden.
Tired of Forced Unionism

Piqua, OH

#840 Apr 19, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
Most of that is either untrue or completely unrelated to the fire levy.
I'm glad you exercised your right to vote. Even though it was out of ignorance and blind allegiance to the tea party rhetoric, you're in the minority that cared enough to express an opinion.
My family, my friends, my neighbors, and many many others have already voted YES on ISSUE 3! Come May 7th, we'll all be able to exercise the same freedom to say YES TO 3 to maintain our public safety for years to come.
Typical mentality of our neighbors who are fully indoctrinated into the selfish cult of unionism - God Bless me and my wife, My son and his wife, Us four and no more.

Ever wonder why local taxes rarely (if ever!) get cut? Whether it is our property taxes, city income taxes, county sales taxes, or other local taxes, rates climb and ther is little debate about REDUCING taxes. Ever wondered WHY that is the case?

HUMAN NATURE AND LABOR UNIONS ARE THE REASONS.

First, people at work and in the communites ABHOR interpersonal conflict and must possess a MOTIVE to work against that ingrained desire to get along.

In the private sector, the motive is profit, which determines pay and job security. In government, no such motive exists, which is precisely why even pro-union politicians (like President Franklin D. Roosevelt opposed giving government workers the ENTITLEMENT to collectively bargain.

Without the necessary motive to work against their desire to get along, when collective bargaining negotiations occur between government unions and government entities, government managers
--risk averse by the fact they work in government--Don't engage in the conflict necessary to keep a lid on compensation packages.

Since compensation packages SWALLOW the vast majority of local budgets, keeping spending down and taxes low requires RESTRAINING
the growth of compensation packages of government workers. With NO motive to counter the desire to get along, few government entities RESTRAIN compensation package costs.

Our double dipping Clearcreek Township Government Administrator,
Mr. Dennis Pickett, cannot control his "Human Nature" desire to "just go along to get along" because Mr. Pickett would be going against his SELF-INTERST basic human nature. That's why Mr. Kidd was able to "union" strong arm Mr. Pickett into proposing to the trustees the HIGHEST TAX INCREASE of the two proposals.

Ohio Taxpayers can't get a break in the government union board rooms; but we can break the cycle of government addicition to higher and higher taxes at the polls on May 7th exercising our individual freedom to Say NO to this ADDIITONAL continuing tax increase on our homes.
Tired of Forced Unionism

Piqua, OH

#841 Apr 19, 2013
Tired of Focus wrote:
<quoted text>
No they won't quit, they would lose their jobs. Fairly easy to figure out. I did get a copy of their budget 84% of the budget goes to personnel cost. Once again less money, less people.
Wow you go for Pickett as a double dipper and he does not work at the fire department. How many of the fire department people are, oh wait... none
Glad me and my neighbors have you beat, you have half og yours and I have all of mine... My guess, they just want you to go away too
Typical mentality of our neighbors who are fully indoctrinated into the selfish cult of unionism - God Bless me and my wife, My son and his wife, Us four and no more.

Ever wonder why local taxes rarely (if ever!) get cut? Whether it is our property taxes, city income taxes, county sales taxes, or other local taxes, rates climb and ther is little debate about REDUCING taxes. Ever wondered WHY that is the case?

HUMAN NATURE AND LABOR UNIONS ARE THE REASONS.

First, people at work and in the communites ABHOR interpersonal conflict and must possess a MOTIVE to work against that ingrained desire to get along.

In the private sector, the motive is profit, which determines pay and job security. In government, no such motive exists, which is precisely why even pro-union politicians (like President Franklin D. Roosevelt opposed giving government workers the ENTITLEMENT to collectively bargain.

Without the necessary motive to work against their desire to get along, when collective bargaining negotiations occur between government unions and government entities, government managers
--risk averse by the fact they work in government--Don't engage in the conflict necessary to keep a lid on compensation packages.

Since compensation packages SWALLOW the vast majority of local budgets, keeping spending down and taxes low requires RESTRAINING
the growth of compensation packages of government workers. With NO motive to counter the desire to get along, few government entities RESTRAIN compensation package costs.

Our double dipping Clearcreek Township Government Administrator,
Mr. Dennis Pickett, cannot control his "Human Nature" desire to "just go along to get along" because Mr. Pickett would be going against his SELF-INTERST basic human nature. That's why Mr. Kidd was able to "union" strong arm Mr. Pickett into proposing to the trustees the HIGHEST TAX INCREASE of the two proposals.

Ohio Taxpayers can't get a break in the government union board rooms; but we can break the cycle of government addicition to higher and higher taxes at the polls on May 7th exercising our individual freedom to Say NO to this ADDIITONAL continuing tax increase on our homes.
No Taxes - No Service

Grove City, OH

#842 Apr 19, 2013
observer wrote:
<quoted text>
maintain it huh? They could have done that, in part with the million bucks they paid gabbarb for more park land than we need. And please lose the scare tactics..won't work this time. People are fed up with Wade and his band of thugs ! VOTE NO !
Get your facts straight people.....The money for the park property did NOT come out of the Fire Levy Fund! It would be illegal to do so.

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