Progressive voters group members have...

Progressive voters group members have their say

There are 59 comments on the Las Cruces Sun-News story from Feb 27, 2010, titled Progressive voters group members have their say. In it, Las Cruces Sun-News reports that:

Dona Ana County Democrats who consider themselves progressive voters listened to what their peers had to say Thursday on issues, events and candidates important to them.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Las Cruces Sun-News.

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Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#42 Feb 28, 2010
just info wrote:
Roy said,""So how do you explain that one?" Lousy accountant or just plain ignorance."
Wrong again genius. All you have to do is open your eyes to see that taxes include more than simple income tax. There are many others that have been raised in order to compensate for obama's stupidity.
So where do you draw the line? When is it ok for the Govt. to come take your money that you earn? The fact that a CEO make a big payday is none of your or the Govts business. As long as he pays his taxes as required why should he or anyone else be penalized for being successful?
Typical lib tactic, incite class warfare.
Your comment about my second point is rediculous. What I pay for now is my insurance. I don't pay for illegals, which I will under obama care. I don't pay for your insurance as I will have to under obama care. I am not fined if I decide to pay my own way and not have insurance as I will be under obama care.
As to the third question you again show just how stupid or brainwashed you are. Govt spending has everything to do with tax rates. Why else would the Govt levy taxes if they didn't spend money? The tax people to pay for the spending that they do. That is why taxes are collected.
Are you saying that the Govt taxes just for the fun of taking peoples money away and that they do not spend the money they collect in taxes?
One last thing on health insurancs. I'll take mine I don't need nor want the Govt sticking thier nose into it. I mean after all they have done such a bang up job with Medicare and Mediucade, Social Security, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and soo many other programs.
"There are many others that have been raised in order..." Other than the minimal tobacco tax, what federal taxes have been raised since last January 20th?

"So where do you draw the line?" I'd take it back to the pre- Reagan rates for the upper 1%.

"I don't pay for illegals..." You sure as hell do. Tax loads and insurance premiums are increased because of the uninsured whether or not they are legal or illegal. "This cost-shift amounts to $1,100 per average family premium in 2009 and $410 per average individual premium. By 2013, assuming the cost shift remains the same percentage of premium costs, the cost shift will be approximately $480 for an individual policy and $1,300 for a family policy." Graph and discussion: http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/...

"Govt spending has everything to do with tax rates." The hell it does. There hasn't been any correlation since Clinton balanced the budget. In fact under Dubya, spending went straight up even as tax rates went down. "The 2001 and 2003 tax cuts added about $1.7 trillion to deficits between 2001 and 2008. Because they (were) financed by borrowing — which increases the national debt — this figure includes the extra interest costs resulting from that additional debt. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/state...

"When is it ok for the Govt. to come take your money that you earn?" When you use government services. Unfortunately over the Bush years they damn sure didn't collect enough to pay for the illegal and immoral wars, the massive drug benefit the tax cut that inflated the earnings of the upper 1%, and all the extra cost of privatizing governmental services.

Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#43 Feb 28, 2010
just info wrote:
"Yeah - Class Warfare. And as Warren Buffet says "My class is winning!"
So you admit to trying to incite class warfare. Finnaly a bit of truth from you instead of simple bs parroting of obama and the rest of your lib gods.
You know something interesting is that in Africa there is not much inequality in earnings as your report claims is the cause of a drop in life expectancy etc. b ut yet they have the lowest life expectancy of almost any place on the earth.
It is also interesting tpo note that the State by state study they do shows that in NY the Inequality in pay is the Highest in the States yet they are ranked very low in the problem areas that are listed. Check your graph.
Isn't it terrible how those top people pay so little tax. Since you used 2007 here is some more data for you from the Tax Fouondation.
"In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income"
Dang aint that a hoot!
"So you admit to trying to incite class warfare." Hell no. Not iciting anything. Just acknowledging the fact of life that has been going on since Reagan years. And agreeing that Warren Buffet is absolutely correct. His class is winning.

"Warren Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary" "Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said:“The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/ar...

Your comment about Africa is perfectly in line with the author's hypotheses: "fter a certain point the contribution of further economic growth begins to create only diminishing marginal returns: the relationship between economic growth and certain objectively measurable outcomes, like life expectancy, level off."

So NY is an outlier. Your point?

Since: Jul 09

United States

#44 Feb 28, 2010
The one thing everybody is forgetting is this, every state in the union with a liberal central government, every city with a liberal government are all going bankrupt due to the fact that social services do not have enough money to cover all of the indigents and lazy people (white,brown, red, and black.) on the welfare rolls. These states are also the highest taxed states such as New York, California, New jersey, and others. The one thing all these states have in common is they all have progressive goverments and are highly anti-business and are running them out of the state.
People like Roy don't care about stuff like that as long as they get to keep ALL THEIR GOVERNMENT PROVIDED ASSETS. They do not beleive in working for themselves they beleive in letting others do the work for them.
TexasRanger

El Paso, TX

#45 Feb 28, 2010
just info wrote:
<quoted text>
What unsourced article would that be roy? Do ylou even know what you are talking about? Oh I forgot you are the graet and powerful roy you know all and see all.
ji,

I think he confused you with me. I neglected to add my "link" to my post. So to correct that I will add it here.

http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312233/bosto...
TexasRanger

El Paso, TX

#46 Feb 28, 2010
PlacitasRoy wrote:
<quoted text>
You kinda forgot to include this from the unsourced Wikiedia article you posted: "THE PROTEST MOVEMENT THAT CULMINATED WITH THE BOSTON TEA PARTY WAS NOT A DISPUTE ABOUT HIGH TAXES. THE PRICE OF LEGALLY IMPORTED TEA WAS ACTUALLY REDUCED BY THE TEA ACT OF 1773." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
Of course there is a direct comparison to the teabaggers of 2010. 95% of the taxpayers received a tax-cut as part of last spring's stimulus bill.
Actually it came from:

http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312233/bosto...

Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#47 Mar 1, 2010
Michaelg Bakersfield wrote:
The one thing everybody is forgetting is this, every state in the union with a liberal central government, every city with a liberal government are all going bankrupt due to the fact that social services do not have enough money to cover all of the indigents and lazy people (white,brown, red, and black.) on the welfare rolls. These states are also the highest taxed states such as New York, California, New jersey, and others. The one thing all these states have in common is they all have progressive goverments and are highly anti-business and are running them out of the state.
People like Roy don't care about stuff like that as long as they get to keep ALL THEIR GOVERNMENT PROVIDED ASSETS. They do not beleive in working for themselves they beleive in letting others do the work for them.
Your simplistic illogical logic wouldn't hold up to scrutiny...but it makes for a good bumper sticker.

Your ignorance about my circumstances is ridiculous and completely false. Except for the minimal bennies I earned as a vet I have no 'government provided assets.' I do take my veteran's exemption on my property taxes. Although we did get the main road into our subdivision paved 10 or 15 years ago. The county/state/federal did widen the highway 4 r 5 years ago. There is a fairly new community center I might use when I get to be an old fart. I will get to collect my Social Security & be medicare eligible in a year and a half. I have been self-employed since 1982.

Only a ditthead, foxhole, or teabagger who has been exposed to 20+ years of propaganda has your distorted view of what progressives/liberals believe or how they act.

Since: Jul 09

United States

#48 Mar 1, 2010

first I am not a dittohead have heard rush talk maybe 3 times in my life, I too am a VET, 13 .5 yrs U.S. Navy first enlisted 1968, my views are from what I have seen living in various liberal progressive states and communities. I also qualify for V.A. Benefits and i do use them however I also pay for my own health insurence and do not use the "good" doctors at the V.A. I want to be able to understand what the doctor is telling meinstead of trying to understand his accent. You are always posting your sources and I am glad that you do but your sources are always from far left blogs. You are just as bigoted to the far right as they are to the far left. IN my humble opinion when ever someone tells me they only want to help me run my life I run away because to me what they really want is my hard work to take care of people who DON'T WORK AND DON'T WANT TOO. I know tjhere is no law that says you cannot give your hard earned money to others if you want too but the confiscatory taxes I pay now are more than enough for me. I also have been in the civilian workforce for almost 35 yrs and I still pay my own way and I expect others to do so too. Hope you have a great day today!

Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#49 Mar 1, 2010
I too buy my own health insurance....that just went up 23.1%

"You are always posting your sources and I am glad that you do but your sources are always from far left blogs." I don't know of any 'far left' sites I use. The liberal sites I do use are ALWAYS factually accurate.

"You are just as bigoted to the far right as they are to the far left." Big difference. the 'far left' isn't. I am not using the propaganda, racism, rapture-right religious dogma, xenophobia, and outright LIEs....all the things that drove me out of the Republican Party 8 years ago.

"confiscatory taxes" went out with the Reagan tax cuts for the wealthy. David Cay Johnston, Thomas Frank, and others have so completely documented how corporations and very very rich economic elites have subverted the tax code so that they pay less, while the rest of us pay more. I highly recommend this 15 year old article...it's only gotten worse:“The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.”— Michael Lind, To Have and to Have Not (1995) http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45/006.h...

"take care of people who DON'T WORK AND DON'T WANT TOO. " Yeah - all those Reagan mythical Cadillac welfare queens. Great scapegoats. The real welfare queens are found in the military/industrial complex.
Great Scott

Farmington, NM

#50 Mar 1, 2010
Border Native-American wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw a guy here with a great line. I beleive it was: "Spread my work ethic, not my wealth".
So then you must agree that the Bush tax cuts for the rich should be expired since the Republicans are for stealing from the poor to give to the rich....except that they call it "trickle down economics".

Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#51 Mar 1, 2010
Hot Damn! A progressive got so fed up with the teabaggers there is now: The Coffee Party Movement

A sane voice for change! Join the Coffee Party Movement on Facebook
http://www.coffeepartyusa.com

"MISSION: The Coffee Party Movement gives voice to Americans who want to see cooperation in government. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the expression of our collective will, and that we must participate in the democratic process in order to address the challenges that we face as Americans.

As voters and grassroots volunteers, we will support leaders who work toward positive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct them."
Too Simplistic

El Paso, TX

#52 Mar 1, 2010
You forgot to mention that they meant that only for white males. Conservatives want to conserve THEIR RIGHTS to pursue happiness. They are a group of absurdly self-centered people. They do not care about community. They only care about what is good for them as individuals. Too bad a country is a community, not just a bunch of disconnected individuals. Perhaps if they understood that premise, they might care about their community.
just info wrote:
Lets see here, according to Roy the founding fathers were progressive/liberals. Lets look at a few things they said and then decide.
Lets start with the Declaration, "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "
Sounds kind of conservative to me but lets not stop there.
Thomas Jefferson, "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
So still sounds sort of Conservative to me.
Now how about a couple from Benjamin Franklin, "Mine is better than ours" "The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself."
Still kind of conservative to me. Sounds like take care of yourself and keep what you earn. Conservative ideas.
There are many more but just a couple examples. The so called Progressive/Liberal want to take what one person makes and give it to those that don't make it on their own. No different than the King taking it for himself. The bottom line is that some are living of the labors of others. That is the Progressive/Liberal model while the Conservative model is earn what you can and keep what you earn. Live off your own labor.
Too Simplistic

El Paso, TX

#53 Mar 1, 2010
One more thing. We are lucky that there were progressives that fought to change things that the Founding Fathers did not care about. Examples are equal rights for women, equal rights for black people, labor laws, child labor laws, the right to an education, etc.
Too Simplistic wrote:
You forgot to mention that they meant that only for white males. Conservatives want to conserve THEIR RIGHTS to pursue happiness. They are a group of absurdly self-centered people. They do not care about community. They only care about what is good for them as individuals. Too bad a country is a community, not just a bunch of disconnected individuals. Perhaps if they understood that premise, they might care about their community.
<quoted text>
TxRngr

El Paso, TX

#54 Mar 1, 2010
PlacitasRoy wrote:
Hot Damn! A progressive got so fed up with the teabaggers there is now: The Coffee Party Movement
A sane voice for change! Join the Coffee Party Movement on Facebook
http://www.coffeepartyusa.com
"MISSION: The Coffee Party Movement gives voice to Americans who want to see cooperation in government. We recognize that the federal government is not the enemy of the people, but the expression of our collective will, and that we must participate in the democratic process in order to address the challenges that we face as Americans.
As voters and grassroots volunteers, we will support leaders who work toward positive solutions, and hold accountable those who obstruct them."
Thanks for the link, I just request a login
just info

El Paso, TX

#55 Mar 1, 2010
Very simply said, roy, simplistic, and your ilk are soo far out in left field you have no grasp of what is reality.

tax the hell out of anyone that makes money and runs business and see what happens. they move, the shut down operations, the go where they can make an honest living. What does that do for all your poor huddled masses? It makes them unemployed. Then you can try and take care of them with no money coming in as the tax base has been taxed beyond what they will put up with.
Try looking at the real results of tax cuts. Every time taxes were cut revenue went up. Look it up. When you tax heavier people avoid taxes more.
I notice that roy missed the fact that the top 5% of the earners in the US pay more than 40% of the taxes. Now who will make up that shortfall when they move off shore because you libs tax them out of the country?
By the way roy NY was just the largest not the only one. Many of the highly unequal states were low on their list of bad stuff.
just info

El Paso, TX

#56 Mar 1, 2010
Too Simplistic wrote:
You forgot to mention that they meant that only for white males. Conservatives want to conserve THEIR RIGHTS to pursue happiness. They are a group of absurdly self-centered people. They do not care about community. They only care about what is good for them as individuals. Too bad a country is a community, not just a bunch of disconnected individuals. Perhaps if they understood that premise, they might care about their community.
<quoted text>
It's funny but nowhere in the founding fathers words was race mentioned. That is your imagination. When you can't argue the points throw the race card, why not works for obama all the time.

Since: Sep 08

Albuquerque, NM

#57 Mar 1, 2010
just info wrote:
Very simply said, roy, simplistic, and your ilk are soo far out in left field you have no grasp of what is reality.
tax the hell out of anyone that makes money and runs business and see what happens. they move, the shut down operations, the go where they can make an honest living. What does that do for all your poor huddled masses? It makes them unemployed. Then you can try and take care of them with no money coming in as the tax base has been taxed beyond what they will put up with.
Try looking at the real results of tax cuts. Every time taxes were cut revenue went up. Look it up. When you tax heavier people avoid taxes more.
I notice that roy missed the fact that the top 5% of the earners in the US pay more than 40% of the taxes. Now who will make up that shortfall when they move off shore because you libs tax them out of the country?
By the way roy NY was just the largest not the only one. Many of the highly unequal states were low on their list of bad stuff.
Companies go off shore for several reasons....the major one is that the government has made it profitable for them to do so. Were we to follow the protectionist strategies of the other countries that effect would be minimized. The major multi-nationals take the jobs off shore more to avoid environmental, health & safety labor regulations than labor savings.

I notice that roy missed the fact that the top 5% of the earners in the US pay more than 40% of the taxes." I didn't miss it. It is immaterial. By any measure corporate taxes are lower today, both statutory rates, effective rates, and % of GPD & taxes collected. than they were in the 70's.

I have and it is nothing but a myth. There is no evidence whatsoever that tax cuts increase tax collections. Almost always, tax cuts have seen tax collections fall in the following years; tax hikes have seen tax collections rise in the following years. Which is about what you would expect! Nice concise discussion: http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxcollection...
Just Info

Waltham, MA

#58 Mar 2, 2010
real good source there Roy.

Here is one from the Joint Economic Commitee of Congress. I would place them a bit higher on the rerliability meter than your huppi, whatever that is.
In short they JEC says thet the Reagan Tax cuts did indeed benefit the economy and increased the amount of the tax burden payed by the top earners in the US.
By the way to correct my earlier mis-statement it is the top 1% that pay over 40% of the taxes not the top 5% as I stated, my mistake.

http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reag...

Another place for info on that subject for ya roy

http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx...

and still one more

http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november...

Now ignore them as usual because they don't agree with your ultra-lib views.
Too Simplistic

El Paso, TX

#59 Mar 2, 2010
Yeah, that's why the Continental Congress had to deliberate several times as to how much of a human being blacks were to be counted as. Remember all that U.S. history stuff? You know 3/4 human, etc. Blacks were not allowed to vote. The Founding Fathers had nothing against slavery as they had slaves themselves. It might be wise for you to go back and take a high school American history class.
Moreover, you seem to be assuming that I am black. You assume wrong. You need to get over that whole race card issue. Obama has rarely ever made comments about his ethnicity. No, it is people like you that have made a big deal of the race card. It is a fallacy that you have made into your own reality; however, it is not the reality of everyone else. Not only is your ignorance profound, but your inability to develop a logical argument only shows how corrupt of a person you truly are.
just info wrote:
<quoted text>
It's funny but nowhere in the founding fathers words was race mentioned. That is your imagination. When you can't argue the points throw the race card, why not works for obama all the time.
Just Info

Tucson, AZ

#61 Mar 2, 2010
Too Simplistic wrote:
Yeah, that's why the Continental Congress had to deliberate several times as to how much of a human being blacks were to be counted as. Remember all that U.S. history stuff? You know 3/4 human, etc. Blacks were not allowed to vote. The Founding Fathers had nothing against slavery as they had slaves themselves. It might be wise for you to go back and take a high school American history class.
Moreover, you seem to be assuming that I am black. You assume wrong. You need to get over that whole race card issue. Obama has rarely ever made comments about his ethnicity. No, it is people like you that have made a big deal of the race card. It is a fallacy that you have made into your own reality; however, it is not the reality of everyone else. Not only is your ignorance profound, but your inability to develop a logical argument only shows how corrupt of a person you truly are.
<quoted text>
I am fully aware of the US History. The founding Fathers were living in their times. Not the times we are living now. Remember that the africans sold their own into slavery and used slavery in Africa and still do to this day. So maybe you should attempt to learn a little about which you speak.
As to the race thing you brought it up not me. I was responding to your foolish statement. As to obama it is the people like you and your ilk that cry foul whenever anyone dare speak the truth about your messiah and claim that it is all based on race. I don't care what race he is he is a waste of O2 and the worst mistake this cou ntry has made.
I never made any assumption about your race again you are imagining that based on your own misguided perceptions. Not my problem yours. I made no assumption about your race or ethnicity just your general lack of intelligence.

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