California Proposition 19: the Mariju...

California Proposition 19: the Marijuana Legalization Initiative

Created by CitizenTopix on Oct 7, 2010

19,879 votes

Click on an option to vote

Yes

No

Other (explain below)

MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12489 Oct 7, 2012
Bruno24 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just when sampling around me, as I'am relatively old, I got a sad confirmation on the most commonly available statistics.
Those "abusing pot" for 30 years are healthy and life successful (job, children)...
Those abusing alcohol are dead.
Those abusing tobacco are dead.
Those abusing read meat are dead.
I am afraid you give wrong information to the children, Ronald.
I also doubt that Obama switched to tobacco. I guess it has been addicted to tobacco, by mixing it with marijuana. Tobacco is very addictive, and toxic, when inhaled, for 3/4 of the people.
At least suggest to take oral tobacco.
ive been burning every day since jimmy carter was president..

I can still write and talk and function!! amazing!!

if I was a drunk?? like some people I know??

functioning would be a serious challenge.

I think being a far right winger, destroys your brain faster that any drug....

fear of EVERYTHING takes over.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#12490 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
remember the post where you reminded me it was just one debate??
and to get off it?
the debate was a lot cover.....
this talking point youre on.......YOU too should move on.
no ones buying it.
Actually, that was you that said that. I am moving on. Never stopped.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#12491 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
ive been burning every day since jimmy carter was president..
Mitt
I agree, carter was the worst, but move on.
Riccardo
Ronald

Bellflower, CA

#12492 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
another amazing display of otherworldliness by you.
I wish the pot heads controlled the economy.
but it is controlled by big corporations, who themselves, dont buy or grow pot.
the worldwide depression didnt seem to cover the globe....
I assume youre talking about the economic freefall and subsequent economic ditch this country went through, starting around this season, in 08'???
when the stock market lost 3000 points?? and the country shed 5 million jobs in year??
we call that the "great recession" and there are many reasons for it...
the biggest is that wall st started acting like a vegas casino, and bunding mortgages and selling them!! THEN BETTING AGAINST them.
If you have a finger to point, point it at wall st.
these are a list of the corpoarte cartels whe are against the legalization of marijuana.(you do know its illegal according to federal law?)
big pharma...
big tobacco...
big (global)alcohol...
big chemical companies
big energy companies(by extention)
and of course wall st., who backs everybody up financially.
pot run econmy??
that was just another looooooony tune post, by ronald mcdonald.
MITT DOLEWATER.

Yes. When Government licensed media organs say "recession", they are merely using politically correct terminology to indicate "depression". That is to say, a contraction in business activity which results in increased unemployment. Prior to the arrival of the "Great Obama Recession", that was considered to be reasonable propaganda because "The Great Depression" was considered to be a worse business contraction. That is no longer the case.

You also hit the nail on the head when you indicated that the "Great Obama Recession" is the end result of a prior Democrat administration strong-arming banks and other mortgage providers to underwrite taxpayer guaranteed home loans for unqualified individuals, turning a sound financial system into a Vegas type casino operation. The purpose of that strong-arming was to implement dysfunctional Government social programs - primarily aimed at the destruction of peaceful homogenous neighborhoods.

Ronald
Bruno24

Belgium

#12493 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
ive been burning every day since jimmy carter was president..
I can still write and talk and function!! amazing!!
if I was a drunk?? like some people I know??
functioning would be a serious challenge.
I think being a far right winger, destroys your brain faster that any drug....
fear of EVERYTHING takes over.
Left and right makes no more a lot of meaning for me. I was so happy when Obama got elected. The first genuine-pothead-US-president!
I thought that he would at the least stop the harassment of the MJ smokers and I thought he would at the least keep his promise to not let the feds interfere with the states. But he didn't. I lied to myself in assuming that the task was hard, and that he did not have much control. But what came as a shock was the NDAA notes. I mocked the idea, when I heard of it one year before, of such detention of american citizens, as a conspiracy fantasy, but not only Obama signed those notes, but his administration is the one insisting on the precise language which makes the NDAA notes equivalent with the usual well known dictator trick.
If you want me to the left, then I will define the left by people like Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, or Normal Solomon. Romney is at the right, and Obama seems to me at the extreme right, I'm afraid. With Obama, I don't believe America is controlled by Americans, but only by international non transparent criminal special interests. Hard and sad time. Now we have to legalize MJ, only for saving democracy and the consitution.
MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12494 Oct 7, 2012
Bruno24 wrote:
<quoted text>
Left and right makes no more a lot of meaning for me. I was so happy when Obama got elected. The first genuine-pothead-US-president!
I thought that he would at the least stop the harassment of the MJ smokers and I thought he would at the least keep his promise to not let the feds interfere with the states. But he didn't. I lied to myself in assuming that the task was hard, and that he did not have much control. But what came as a shock was the NDAA notes. I mocked the idea, when I heard of it one year before, of such detention of american citizens, as a conspiracy fantasy, but not only Obama signed those notes, but his administration is the one insisting on the precise language which makes the NDAA notes equivalent with the usual well known dictator trick.
If you want me to the left, then I will define the left by people like Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, or Normal Solomon. Romney is at the right, and Obama seems to me at the extreme right, I'm afraid. With Obama, I don't believe America is controlled by Americans, but only by international non transparent criminal special interests. Hard and sad time. Now we have to legalize MJ, only for saving democracy and the consitution.
I agree, it is complex....

voting for any mainstream politician means a vote for further prohibition...

yes, Obama was the guy in high school, with the bags of weed for sale after school.
........ and at first they gave the order to lay off patients.

then they realized how safe an electoral bet california was, and went for the law and order vote....something he surly could win re-election WITHOUT.

what happens now with the dea and the justice dept will be interesting to watch...but I doubt much will change.

I vote always along the lines of what is best for the population at large....I do admit, i like ron paul and gary johnson when it comes to their stance on prohibition and empire, as well as the fed???
but after that?? those two emerge from the same clown car of deregulating EVERYTHING for the wealthy,( to tilt the economic playing feild that much further towards the elite), that EVERY oher mainstream republican emerges from.

at least Obama favors capital injection into the economy.

the middle class creates the demand, dont you agree??

so keeping cash in their hands is crucial, as capitalism doesnt REALLy work for the masses, as it naturally accumulates wealth at the top.

thus weve had wealth redistribution mechanisms built into the economy of the 20th century...

as opposed to 19th when the robber barrons set thier own prices, and used labor like disposable capital, with no regulation at all on saftey and work conditions or hours.

their actions were the REASON we had the progressive age.

I agree
with you that the world is basically run by the corporate cartels that keep weed illegal at the federal level.

they have SO much to lose by its gained popularity and finding out WHAT other things POT and its derivative chemicals can cure!!

anyone with half a brain can see the profit motive for supressing something as miraculous as cannabis.......... and in the corporate world, one cartel relies on the next..... they definately look out for each other.

peace
MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12495 Oct 7, 2012
Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
MITT DOLEWATER.
Yes. When Government licensed media organs say "recession", they are merely using politically correct terminology to indicate "depression". That is to say, a contraction in business activity which results in increased unemployment. Prior to the arrival of the "Great Obama Recession", that was considered to be reasonable propaganda because "The Great Depression" was considered to be a worse business contraction. That is no longer the case.
You also hit the nail on the head when you indicated that the "Great Obama Recession" is the end result of a prior Democrat administration strong-arming banks and other mortgage providers to underwrite taxpayer guaranteed home loans for unqualified individuals, turning a sound financial system into a Vegas type casino operation. The purpose of that strong-arming was to implement dysfunctional Government social programs - primarily aimed at the destruction of peaceful homogenous neighborhoods.
Ronald
if you look at polling data,(mainstream, not unicorn land)

youll see that the majority of americans DONt blame the "great recession" on poor poeple wanting more than they could afford....

they rightfully cite the bi-partisan removal of glass-steigal in 1999(passed during the great depresssion)

that law kept investment banking and everyday banking separate.

but once the same bank could do both??

as an intelligent person you can see the conflict ?? right??

no?? well they took advantage of what they were allowed to...

the result is well documented by matt tiabi of rolling stone magazine, and othet notable journalist...it lead to sub=prime crisis. we tax payers bailed out wall st to the tune of 730 billion?? and it was because of the shenanagans of the poor masses?? boy, you are confused. these wall st.banks like goldman sachs started acting like casinos anbd budling mortagages......then hedging bets agianst their failing investments??

this sort of s**t should certainly be made illegal again.

journalist and others, also note, that no one except bernia madoff was ever prosecuted!! trillions embezzled?? and no culprits except the poor to blame?? give us a break ron.

the wealthy have offshored 32 trillion dollars, and some of those trillions came from bilking people out of their houses!!

but they have you poor saps blaming the poor for them?? while they all become billionaires??

that is why i call the tea party, the "billionaires rights party"
Ronald

Bellflower, CA

#12496 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
if you look at polling data,(mainstream, not unicorn land)
youll see that the majority of americans DONt blame the "great recession" on poor poeple wanting more than they could afford....
they rightfully cite the bi-partisan removal of glass-steigal in 1999(passed during the great depresssion)
that law kept investment banking and everyday banking separate.
but once the same bank could do both??
as an intelligent person you can see the conflict ?? right??
no?? well they took advantage of what they were allowed to...
the result is well documented by matt tiabi of rolling stone magazine, and othet notable journalist...it lead to sub=prime crisis. we tax payers bailed out wall st to the tune of 730 billion?? and it was because of the shenanagans of the poor masses?? boy, you are confused. these wall st.banks like goldman sachs started acting like casinos anbd budling mortagages......then hedging bets agianst their failing investments??
this sort of s**t should certainly be made illegal again.
journalist and others, also note, that no one except bernia madoff was ever prosecuted!! trillions embezzled?? and no culprits except the poor to blame?? give us a break ron.
the wealthy have offshored 32 trillion dollars, and some of those trillions came from bilking people out of their houses!!
but they have you poor saps blaming the poor for them?? while they all become billionaires??
that is why i call the tea party, the "billionaires rights party"
MITT DOLEWATER.

Yes. I agree. In more enlightened times, envy was known as one of the seven deadly sins. Following the revolution, the political ruling class has effectively used envy to prevent opposition from forming, opposition that might jeopardize their ruling position.

It's a stretch to believe "the majority of Americans" have "opinions" one way or the other about the important issues of the day other than those opinions they have been conditioned to believe. "The majority" is almost always wrong. Were that not true, stock markets could never work.

Our current electoral system is based on the theory that the uninformed will cancel one another out and the informed minority will then be the deciding factor in elections. Unfortunately, since the revolution, the uninformed seem to be heavily concentrated on the left side of the political spectrum.

It is true that Glass-Steagall was repealed during the Clinton administration. However, no less an authoritative source than "The Washington Post" says that the Repeal of Glass-Steagall was not a cause of the financial collapse but it served as a multiplier of that collapse. According to "The Post":

*(because of the strong arming of the banks by the politicians which caused them to find some way to diminish Government caused risk) "...Consider the context in which it occurred:"

No one condones the action of the banking industry going along with the demands of the politicians to lend taxpayer guaranteed money to unqualified home "buyers". On the other hand, banking executives had learned the lesson of Big Tobacco executives who resisted Governmental efforts to nationalize Big Tobacco. We cannot read the minds of Big Bank executives, but I believe it is fair to surmise that they did not want to make the same mistake.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/8cjv8le

Ronald

MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12497 Oct 7, 2012
Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
MITT DOLEWATER.
Yes. I agree. In more enlightened times, envy was known as one of the seven deadly sins. Following the revolution, the political ruling class has effectively used envy to prevent opposition from forming, opposition that might jeopardize their ruling position.
It's a stretch to believe "the majority of Americans" have "opinions" one way or the other about the important issues of the day other than those opinions they have been conditioned to believe. "The majority" is almost always wrong. Were that not true, stock markets could never work.
Our current electoral system is based on the theory that the uninformed will cancel one another out and the informed minority will then be the deciding factor in elections. Unfortunately, since the revolution, the uninformed seem to be heavily concentrated on the left side of the political spectrum.
It is true that Glass-Steagall was repealed during the Clinton administration. However, no less an authoritative source than "The Washington Post" says that the Repeal of Glass-Steagall was not a cause of the financial collapse but it served as a multiplier of that collapse. According to "The Post":
*(because of the strong arming of the banks by the politicians which caused them to find some way to diminish Government caused risk) "...Consider the context in which it occurred:"
No one condones the action of the banking industry going along with the demands of the politicians to lend taxpayer guaranteed money to unqualified home "buyers". On the other hand, banking executives had learned the lesson of Big Tobacco executives who resisted Governmental efforts to nationalize Big Tobacco. We cannot read the minds of Big Bank executives, but I believe it is fair to surmise that they did not want to make the same mistake.
Source: http://tinyurl.com/8cjv8le
Ronald
yes ronald, we already know that the mitt romney you love is the one on the hidden video talking about how 47% of the electorate need to get a life....weve heard all this randian rhetoric before......luckily it is all tripe that has no bearing on the real world.

ron...?

if repealing glass steigal was multiplier of the sub-prime crisis??? then we should probably reinstate it, as the next huge meltdown(which is imminent any old year now) would be multiplied again by these wall st. bankers and their casino bahavior.

agreed??

im not for nationalizing the banks.....but better citizen oversight is needed.....

they have proven time and time again, that they cant be let alone to handle(responsibly) the world banking system.
Bruno24

Belgium

#12498 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>

<snip>

at least Obama favors capital injection into the economy.
the middle class creates the demand, dont you agree??
so keeping cash in their hands is crucial, as capitalism doesnt REALLy work for the masses, as it naturally accumulates wealth at the top.
thus weve had wealth redistribution mechanisms built into the economy of the 20th century...
as opposed to 19th when the robber barrons set thier own prices, and used labor like disposable capital, with no regulation at all on saftey and work conditions or hours.
their actions were the REASON we had the progressive age.
I agree
with you that the world is basically run by the corporate cartels that keep weed illegal at the federal level.
they have SO much to lose by its gained popularity and finding out WHAT other things POT and its derivative chemicals can cure!!
anyone with half a brain can see the profit motive for supressing something as miraculous as cannabis.......... and in the corporate world, one cartel relies on the next..... they definately look out for each other.
peace
Unless it is on kids health and education, and fundamental research, I don't think that to inject capital in the economy makes sense.

It only makes the middle class even more into hostages of the bandits. Your analysis is correct, locally, but this is only due to the facts that they have made an empire on lies. So the money is largely fake. Money injection is a symptom of some Ponzi pyramid.

If capitalism succeeds in separating the powers, and have free media and free advertizing, money will develops on realist values, the trust can come back, and everybody (can) get richer. But as you say, the situation is complex, and locally that might make sense, but for the long run, injected finance = bigger catastrophe later.

With injected money they will continue to build unnecessary weapons, unnecessary medication, and pay unnecessary drug war warriors, drones, etc. Injected economy = we lie, so we give you imaginary money. Money must be valuable through economical realism and trust. Injected finance can only perpetuate the lies. I think. Today the banking system is corrupted by black and grey money, so that it is also in hostage of the bandits.

The simplest manner to regulate drugs, but you can generalize the idea, consists in legalizing them all, and taxing them relatively to their effective social costs. In this case people will pay their beer a bit more, probably, and the insurance company will make cannabis free :)

Just stopping the lies, and coming back to a bit of seriousness, and the valuable money will easily come back too, I think. But influent and unscrupulous corporatism prevail today, that is the main problem.
Ronald

Bellflower, CA

#12499 Oct 7, 2012
MITT DOLEWATER wrote:
<quoted text>
yes ronald, we already know that the mitt romney you love is the one on the hidden video talking about how 47% of the electorate need to get a life....weve heard all this randian rhetoric before......luckily it is all tripe that has no bearing on the real world.
ron...?
if repealing glass steigal was multiplier of the sub-prime crisis??? then we should probably reinstate it, as the next huge meltdown(which is imminent any old year now) would be multiplied again by these wall st. bankers and their casino bahavior.
agreed??
im not for nationalizing the banks.....but better citizen oversight is needed.....
they have proven time and time again, that they cant be let alone to handle(responsibly) the world banking system.
MITT DOLEWATER.

Yes. I agree. If Romney is deserving of criticism for his " 47 % " estimation, that criticism is due only because his estimate is too low. Even if the minority of Americans who pay taxes wanted to keep carrying "the voting majority" around on their backs out of Christian charity, it is impossible for them to continue doing so. Those whom the political ruling class keep referring to as "the rich" are now broke.

I doubt Glass-Steagall can be "reinstated" but the banks should end being a slush-fund for the politicians and their gambling buddies. A good start would be to repeal Dodd-Frank. Already this enabling legislation has resulted in the banks tacking on all kinds of "service" charges, charges that prior to Dodd-Frank were provided gratis. Sorta' makes one wonder about the "reforms" the politicians are enacting to "help" consumers, doesn't it?

Incidentally, MITT DOLEWATER. All these "reforms" - including Clinton's strong-arming of banks to provide taxpayer guaranteed loans to unqualified borrowers that resulted in the Obama depression - were done all during times when Romney was not president.

Ronald
PottyTrained

Glendora, CA

#12500 Oct 7, 2012
There must be a reason you had trouble potty training your local politican?
JOY

United States

#12501 Oct 7, 2012
When is the Joy is driving to Hesperia, California?
FitterREPUBLICAN

Glendora, CA

#12502 Oct 7, 2012
President Obama will be visiting Los Angeles, California for star-studded fundraiser concert tonight Sunday, October 07, 2012.

The only republican you might see are the ones protesting or shouting nasty comments. But of course there are BAD ones like the Tea Party Nation member's.
MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12503 Oct 8, 2012
Ronald wrote:
<quoted text>
MITT DOLEWATER.
Yes. I agree. If Romney is deserving of criticism for his " 47 % " estimation, that criticism is due only because his estimate is too low. Even if the minority of Americans who pay taxes wanted to keep carrying "the voting majority" around on their backs out of Christian charity, it is impossible for them to continue doing so. Those whom the political ruling class keep referring to as "the rich" are now broke.
I doubt Glass-Steagall can be "reinstated" but the banks should end being a slush-fund for the politicians and their gambling buddies. A good start would be to repeal Dodd-Frank. Already this enabling legislation has resulted in the banks tacking on all kinds of "service" charges, charges that prior to Dodd-Frank were provided gratis. Sorta' makes one wonder about the "reforms" the politicians are enacting to "help" consumers, doesn't it?
Incidentally, MITT DOLEWATER. All these "reforms" - including Clinton's strong-arming of banks to provide taxpayer guaranteed loans to unqualified borrowers that resulted in the Obama depression - were done all during times when Romney was not president.
Ronald
so deregulation brought down the market......

or ampliefied the effect?? which is essentially the same.

and you want to continue deregulating??

I dont think you know much about this issue.

deregulating the banks are what got us here in the first place.
MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12504 Oct 8, 2012
PottyTrained wrote:
There must be a reason you had trouble potty training your local politican?
it is hard to curb pure ambition!!!

:)
MITT DOLEWATER

Anderson, CA

#12505 Oct 8, 2012
Bruno24 wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless it is on kids health and education, and fundamental research, I don't think that to inject capital in the economy makes sense.
It only makes the middle class even more into hostages of the bandits. Your analysis is correct, locally, but this is only due to the facts that they have made an empire on lies. So the money is largely fake. Money injection is a symptom of some Ponzi pyramid.
If capitalism succeeds in separating the powers, and have free media and free advertizing, money will develops on realist values, the trust can come back, and everybody (can) get richer. But as you say, the situation is complex, and locally that might make sense, but for the long run, injected finance = bigger catastrophe later.
With injected money they will continue to build unnecessary weapons, unnecessary medication, and pay unnecessary drug war warriors, drones, etc. Injected economy = we lie, so we give you imaginary money. Money must be valuable through economical realism and trust. Injected finance can only perpetuate the lies. I think. Today the banking system is corrupted by black and grey money, so that it is also in hostage of the bandits.
The simplest manner to regulate drugs, but you can generalize the idea, consists in legalizing them all, and taxing them relatively to their effective social costs. In this case people will pay their beer a bit more, probably, and the insurance company will make cannabis free :)
Just stopping the lies, and coming back to a bit of seriousness, and the valuable money will easily come back too, I think. But influent and unscrupulous corporatism prevail today, that is the main problem.
i agree with much of your analysis esp regarding fiat currency.

but roads, bridges, schools, teachers fire stations, interstate highways, power grid expansions are not "lies"

they are what we use as a society to get from point A to point B in life.......from broke to not so broke.....

our infrastructure needs much improvement.

let me guess??

youre the gary johnson supporter...

I love his position on pot and empire and parially on the fed.

but after that he climbs out of the same clown car as the rest of the primary feild......lets get rid of the government?? and let big business take care of everybody.???? I dont think so.

business has neither motivation nor obligation to see to the ills that are created by the side effects of capitalism.

I keep saying capitalism doesnt work for the masses, and it doensnt.

that is why we have capital injection in the first place...

so the marginalized members of society dont fall off a cliff, while oher memebers are making cash hand over foot.

the marginalized are part of the economy as well?? oui??
First snow

Glendora, CA

#12506 Oct 8, 2012
Xmas comes early.

They're as big as Christmas trees, a police Lt. Michael Ryle said.

Some of the plants are as tall as 10 feet tall.
RiccardoFire

Elk Grove, CA

#12508 Oct 8, 2012
First snow wrote:
Xmas comes early.
They're as big as Christmas trees, a police Lt. Michael Ryle said.
Some of the plants are as tall as 10 feet tall.
al gore needs a big one for one of his mansions.
CompanyR

Glendora, CA

#12509 Oct 8, 2012
I didn't ask for nor request any type of response from loonies like riccorddoo's.

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