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Danielle

Alpine, UT

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#1326
Feb 28, 2014
 

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Nope, because people didn't realize she had that many kids until after they talked to her outside of Websleuths.

Websleuths has a policy of cooperating with investigations (obviously.)
So what Kate put up there about Joshua, while not visible publicly anymore, was offered to the detective.
faked out

Mount Pleasant, SC

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#1327
Mar 1, 2014
 

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This occurred to me during the night when I couldn't go back to sleep and my mind started trying to make things make sense…. Josh was supposedly on so many different drugs and such high doses. Remember, he is YOUNG. If some of these drugs are so hard on an ADULT'S body, how on earth could he have had so much in HIS little system??? Adults could gradually be given huge amounts over time, right? But how does a 5,6,7-yr old kid build up to these big amounts without dying? Could Krazy Kate have been exaggerating the doses? Could he have not even been on so many different kinds but it sounded better to her to say he was? I know NOTHING about drugs. So maybe it's possible, but it doesn't make sense to me. Also, if he was indeed on that many at those high doses, how long does detox take? Would it just be a week or two, or several months? My guess is a very long time, but again, I'm not familiar with anything but ibuprofen.

Thanks to whoever that was that posted those last CB entries. It was good to read back thru those again. One thing that stood out to me was that doctor who "quit" them, but came back later.(Dr. S, Z, ABC, whoever)… I wonder if she didn't want to have anything to do with Kate anymore because she was feeling really suspicious and weird about it all, and then voiced her suspicions to someone in charge who told her to go back to them as part of the investigation that was cranking up. Has this been discussed on this board yet? I can't remember. Maybe I am over-thinking too much? LOL!!!

Another thing that has bugged me the whole time about her posts. Josh gets to the point where he doesn't want her to leave his side AT ALL, right? So, what, she stays in bed with him 24 hours a day? What are those other young kids doing 24 hours a day with Mom in bed with Josh, hanging out? Parked in front of the tv? I know, Megan supposedly was a big helper, but was she really 2nd Mom-in-Charge? Was Kate REALLY by J's side that much? I just call BS on that too! If you have that many kids with all those "problems", you can't just ignore them just to be with your favorite Joshie. She had plenty of time to post daily novels on numerous blogs and CB, so yeah, she wasn't Mom of the Year, spending lots of quality time with those other kids. But if they had their autistic and other issues, someone's gotta be running ragged all day, taking care of things. What's my point? Well sorry, I just kinda forgot my point (!!!), other than so much of what she posted just sounds like pure BS, and I bought it all and I'm mad about it!
King

Mason, OH

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#1328
Mar 1, 2014
 

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I can't speak to pediatric pain medicine, but know my experience w/ severe pain. I posted earlier that I had a severe injury and for a number or reasons had to wait to surgery. Prior to surgery, I was on fentanyl and an additional narcotic for breakthrough pain. After surgery, I was on fentanyl, dilaudid and an additional shorter acting narcotic. They first tried morphine and fentanyl, but my pain was uncontrolled because my narcotic tolerance was so high and my pain so severe.

My thought is that Kate lied about the doses and perhaps meds that Joshua was on, but also that he had built up tolerance to any narcotics. Fentanyl is not recommended for people who are "opioid naive" or who have not taken opioids for a certain time/dose. Fentanyl is not for acute pain. For example, if you broke your leg, fentanyl wouldn't be the appropriate medication. It is more for chronic severe pain.

In my experience, coming off of the narcotics was tough. My pain doc told me that there are 2 components to addiction - physical dependence and psychological addiction. I was not psychologically addicted, but physically dependent from taking them for a long period. So when I started tapering off the narcotics as my pain decreased, I had a lot of side effects. Kate posted that Joshua stopped many of the meds without tapering...so I wonder if either he wasn't taking them (i.e. someone else was) or if he wasn't on the meds/doses she wrote about. Stopping cold turkey...I can't imagine would go smoothly.
faked out wrote:
This occurred to me during the night when I couldn't go back to sleep and my mind started trying to make things make sense…. Josh was supposedly on so many different drugs and such high doses. Remember, he is YOUNG. If some of these drugs are so hard on an ADULT'S body, how on earth could he have had so much in HIS little system??? Adults could gradually be given huge amounts over time, right? But how does a 5,6,7-yr old kid build up to these big amounts without dying? Could Krazy Kate have been exaggerating the doses? Could he have not even been on so many different kinds but it sounded better to her to say he was? I know NOTHING about drugs.
Floored

United States

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#1329
Mar 1, 2014
 
Danielle wrote:
Kate's name on Websleuths was NOT KpMom... that's why you can't find her.
And her thread about Joshua is gone because Websleuths figured out she was a fraud.
It was removed because they believed she was trying to defraud members.
Kate hasn't posted on there since 2012.
She hasn't logged in since about the time the kids were taken.(September 2013.)
So, what was her user name?

Since: Oct 13

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#1330
Mar 1, 2014
 

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faked out wrote:
This occurred to me during the night when I couldn't go back to sleep and my mind started trying to make things make sense…. Josh was supposedly on so many different drugs and such high doses. Remember, he is YOUNG. If some of these drugs are so hard on an ADULT'S body, how on earth could he have had so much in HIS little system??? Adults could gradually be given huge amounts over time, right? But how does a 5,6,7-yr old kid build up to these big amounts without dying? Could Krazy Kate have been exaggerating the doses? Could he have not even been on so many different kinds but it sounded better to her to say he was? I know NOTHING about drugs. So maybe it's possible, but it doesn't make sense to me. Also, if he was indeed on that many at those high doses, how long does detox take? Would it just be a week or two, or several months? My guess is a very long time, but again, I'm not familiar with anything but ibuprofen.
Thanks to whoever that was that posted those last CB entries. It was good to read back thru those again. One thing that stood out to me was that doctor who "quit" them, but came back later.(Dr. S, Z, ABC, whoever)… I wonder if she didn't want to have anything to do with Kate anymore because she was feeling really suspicious and weird about it all, and then voiced her suspicions to someone in charge who told her to go back to them as part of the investigation that was cranking up. Has this been discussed on this board yet? I can't remember. Maybe I am over-thinking too much? LOL!!!
Another thing that has bugged me the whole time about her posts. Josh gets to the point where he doesn't want her to leave his side AT ALL, right? So, what, she stays in bed with him 24 hours a day? What are those other young kids doing 24 hours a day with Mom in bed with Josh, hanging out? Parked in front of the tv? I know, Megan supposedly was a big helper, but was she really 2nd Mom-in-Charge? Was Kate REALLY by J's side that much? I just call BS on that too! If you have that many kids with all those "problems", you can't just ignore them just to be with your favorite Joshie. She had plenty of time to post daily novels on numerous blogs and CB, so yeah, she wasn't Mom of the Year, spending lots of quality time with those other kids. But if they had their autistic and other issues, someone's gotta be running ragged all day, taking care of things. What's my point? Well sorry, I just kinda forgot my point (!!!), other than so much of what she posted just sounds like pure BS, and I bought it all and I'm mad about it!
Yes, I questioned this a couple pages back about that first doctor leaving and coming back a week later. It is just my gut feeling that this was part of the plan to corner Kate.

Since: Oct 13

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#1331
Mar 1, 2014
 

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And back to the Adam and Faith baby.....because Kate lied about so much, is it possible that she lied about the pregnancy too? Is there any proof that Faith is/was actually expecting? I mean in her story telling it is a great "chapter".
Nat

United States

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#1332
Mar 1, 2014
 

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AMA wrote:
<quoted text>
Nat...are you saying Kate now has the kids back? I haven't slept since yesterday am a couple hours and I maybe am just too tired to understand your meaning...It sounds almost like after 5mos Kate got them back..Am I reading this wrong. I don't want to start a war over my questions., just could you clarify...Sorry I'm too tied to think much..I appreciate your comments and open mind..&#9829;
Ama, not at all! I was just replying to someone else, NOT defending Kate, stating that if she had NOT done anything wrong and had been cleared, her children would NOT still be away from her. They are separated for a reason, and after 5 months, that reason appears to still be going strong. I never said she has them back...now get some sleep!:)
Questions

Eugene, OR

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#1333
Mar 1, 2014
 

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allison04 wrote:
And back to the Adam and Faith baby.....because Kate lied about so much, is it possible that she lied about the pregnancy too? Is there any proof that Faith is/was actually expecting? I mean in her story telling it is a great "chapter".
Good questions.
See if you take my stance then , yes she was pregnant, yes faith exists and is married to Adam, yes her kids were/ are ill (at least some of them), yes she really has 7-9 kids, yes she probably has had it rough for long time in a up hill battle....

But from the other side how do we really know she's (Kate-fake name) is not really a 13-17 year old who is suffering from MBI (Munchhausen by Internet), who stumped us all , and made this whole life up?

So on that thought perhaps there never was a baby/ a Faith for Adam.... Perhaps if she (K) is an adult with kids she only has one or two kids, I mean how can we really know for sure, Right?
I mean if she Lies, then who's to say she didn't make this whole elaborate thing up as part of a fantasy world. Maybe there aren't any children really involved at all, and that the Investigation is just about the money,and her sanity. Why would the Investigators / detectives lie though, unless they are worried that kate might call them to try and get info.
Perhaps all we know is part of a elaborate story, a scam, a fantasy world. How Can we really know?

Since: Feb 14

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#1334
Mar 1, 2014
 

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Hi Questions. The court dockets take care of establishing the reality of the kids. Josh was not the only one rescued.
AMA

Bothell, WA

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#1335
Mar 1, 2014
 

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Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm lets see like the rest of us , I too followed the CB sites, and prayed and cared for these kids, Even gave....
Which by definition of this board gives me the divine right to knowledge of the situation and all that is being said. I Gave, so in short I bought my way/ right to this board like the rest of you.
Secondly, to be a well balanced board we need someone who does not agree with all that is being said, it brings Objectivity to it. Helps us not be a Gossip board. And as to Way to Much benefit of the doubt, I will give it to you as well, and say that you came to this board jaded already and were not drawn in by the gossip to take the stance you currently have. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are/ can be a smart and objective person, who makes decisions for your self , and are not swayed by any wind that blows your way. To give someone the Benefit of the doubt till all facts are laid to bare, is the true sign of Intelligence, tolerance and acceptance. A opposite to Prejudice, and simple minded Bigotry
Not that I think any of you are necessarily Prejudice or Bigots, but the Close-minded approach to this board lends to that. And that's in part why I stick around , to bring a different point of view, and to bring about a fuller picture. In short to try and help us all not look stupid.(this post aside) I always try to post Intelligent well thought out statements and rebuttals to the things that seem off or skewed, In the most diplomatic approach I can muster.
Thirdly If you don't like my point of view I welcome you to how did you say
" If you are so disgusted with this board, why follow it? That's like the people that follow celebrities' social media, only to slam them with every post, just to spew hate.. Makes zero sense. But whatever floats your boat." of More bluntly The Door is here , if you don;t like what's on here then Use it :)
I hope this tongue and cheek response to your question has helped you better understand why I'm here.... Because I want to be :)
Yeah but you're not a celebrity, Kate... Chew on that a while.
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#1336
Mar 1, 2014
 
You said it all very well.

The only thing I'd disagree with is the usage of Fentanyl. I know it can be used for serious short term pain only because my little Min Pin got prescribed one of those Fentanyl patches when she broke her leg (and it took 3 days before we could get her into surgery.)

We had to pick it up at the pharmacy and had to shave a bit of her fur to stick it on her side, then loosely wrap an Ace bandage around her to prevent her from chewing at it and killing herself (no pressure!) So I know it can be used for short term acute pain (at least in dogs...could be that it's just the only strong non-IV pain med available that you can use on them.)

But indeed, I too was on some of those heavy duty painkillers during the few months I was in pain management (Fentanyl and methadone was the combo that worked best for me) and it was difficult coming off, even without a psychological addiction. So I strongly suspect that this was some of what made Joshua so grumpy in the hospital.

One of the prior commenters asked about the dosages. Personally, I do believe he was on those dosages, only because I know I had a much higher tolerance than average, even without ever taking pain meds previously. I was ultimately on a dosage of 500-something mgs of methadone per day; I don't recall the Fentanyl dosage, as it wasn't pills, it was a patch.

So just from my own experience, I was on a pretty high dosage. Joshua's methadone dosage was about half of what mine was. And he's probably about half my size (I'm a small woman - 5 ft tall; 97 lbs), so it seems logical to me. Especially since he's been on pain meds for years and I know your body gets acclimated to the drugs, so you need more and more to get the same impact.

My husband, on the other hand, is super sensitive to narcotics, and can't even take percoset after having a tooth pulled without feeling wonky. So it's really a huge spectrum, I think.
King wrote:
I can't speak to pediatric pain medicine, but know my experience w/ severe pain. I posted earlier that I had a severe injury and for a number or reasons had to wait to surgery. Prior to surgery, I was on fentanyl and an additional narcotic for breakthrough pain. After surgery, I was on fentanyl, dilaudid and an additional shorter acting narcotic. They first tried morphine and fentanyl, but my pain was uncontrolled because my narcotic tolerance was so high and my pain so severe.
My thought is that Kate lied about the doses and perhaps meds that Joshua was on, but also that he had built up tolerance to any narcotics. Fentanyl is not recommended for people who are "opioid naive" or who have not taken opioids for a certain time/dose. Fentanyl is not for acute pain. For example, if you broke your leg, fentanyl wouldn't be the appropriate medication. It is more for chronic severe pain.
In my experience, coming off of the narcotics was tough. My pain doc told me that there are 2 components to addiction - physical dependence and psychological addiction. I was not psychologically addicted, but physically dependent from taking them for a long period. So when I started tapering off the narcotics as my pain decreased, I had a lot of side effects. Kate posted that Joshua stopped many of the meds without tapering...so I wonder if either he wasn't taking them (i.e. someone else was) or if he wasn't on the meds/doses she wrote about. Stopping cold turkey...I can't imagine would go smoothly.
<quoted text>
AMA

Bothell, WA

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#1337
Mar 1, 2014
 

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Nat wrote:
<quoted text>
Ama, not at all! I was just replying to someone else, NOT defending Kate, stating that if she had NOT done anything wrong and had been cleared, her children would NOT still be away from her. They are separated for a reason, and after 5 months, that reason appears to still be going strong. I never said she has them back...now get some sleep!:)
Oh Thanks Nat... I read it wrong and was thinking I might be cause I just couldn't imagine them being placed back with ate so quick...
I still didn't sleep and it's now 12:28 pm Pacific time. I slept exactly 1 hour this morning from 5-6. I am worn out...to tired to sleep but getting ready to try again.
I hope you didn't take my question wrong.. I didn't mean anything other than what I said... and appreciate the answer. Am going to try to sleep in a few... God,'Im tired I woke after an hour this am, like 5am because I had to go to the bathroom. I picked up my cell and stuck it in my housecoat pocket and stumbled into the bathroom and sat down all of a sudden I heard someone talking . My phone was talking in my pocket, I had forgot to lock it this AM and evidently hit the last # called which was my son...HA. I got it out and sure enough, my pocket had called my son and woke him up and he was going Mom, Mom...are you alright... I've done that to others as well as his bro many times.. Anyone who knows me just figures in the middle of the night, my pocket called them. Sometimes I don't even hear it and I'll wake up to an email saying, Dang woman it's 3 am here and your pocket just called me!!!
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#1338
Mar 1, 2014
 

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Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
.....But from the other side how do we really know she's (Kate-fake name) is not really a 13-17 year old who is suffering from MBI (Munchhausen by Internet), who stumped us all , and made this whole life up?
So on that thought perhaps there never was a baby/ a Faith for Adam.... Perhaps if she (K) is an adult with kids she only has one or two kids, I mean how can we really know for sure, Right?...
Well, the detective confirmed he was aware of Faith and Adam's baby and assured me that CPS was going to be involved to protect the child from day one.(It was a major worry I had. I feared she'd start harming the baby. If, in fact, she has MSbP, she wouldn't be able to help herself and babies are so so fragile.)

And we have the detective's remarks, the photos and court docs to prove the kids all exist. And I know many have met her and the kids in real life. Many of her followers were fellow parents she'd met in the hospital.

We know her name is real because that's the name Reece's Rainbow published as the adopter of Vivienne and Laura (Bethany and Hannah's RR names) and from photos, we saw that she did, in fact adopt those kids.
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#1339
Mar 1, 2014
 

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I was googling to see if I could find a birth announcement.

Didn't find one, but I did find the photo others had mentioned with Bethie smiling at the wedding. I hadn't seen it before; what a cutie! That's not a fleeting momentary smile as Kate claimed; look at her! She looks simply delighted, as though she's clapping she's so happy!

Here it is:

https://www.facebook.com/154175041453775/phot...
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#1340
Mar 1, 2014
 

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faked out wrote:
....Also, if he was indeed on that many at those high doses, how long does detox take? Would it just be a week or two, or several months? My guess is a very long time, but again, I'm not familiar with anything but ibuprofen......
That's a good question.
It took me about few weeks to taper down and it was NOT a nice experience, but my hand was feeling better and I didn't want to waste my money on meds I didn't need. I opted to go faster on my taper, as just wanted to get it done with, but I know some people opt to go slower so you don't really "feel it" and it can take a few months that way, depending on your dose.

I know everyone is a bit different with pain meds, so it could take longer for some, less time for others.

Also, remember that some of the docs surmised he was being over-medicated. If that was the case, I don't know if you'd feel any withdrawal symptoms (since over-medicated is, by definition, more than what your body needs). So it's possible they were able to easily cut out a big amount of his dose without trouble? Not sure.

This all assumes Josh was on the dosages Kate reported. I strongly suspect she may have been taking his meds. The reason? She insisted on administering his pain meds, even while in hospital. That's ***really*** odd.(She even talks about the nurse Juli encouraging her to give Josh more pain meds.)
When I was in hospital with my daughter, the nurses handled all of that. They wouldn't even let me give her her iron supplements for her anemia. They had to do it for liability purposes (makes sense....if you have nurses and parents dosing a child, you could easily over-do it or double dose. So it's logical to have only the nurses do it so it can all be recorded in the computer.)

I too think it's fishy that Dr. G left and then came back. I **really** wonder if she didn't realize there was an investigation when she signed off...and then learned about it, so she came back per their request to help them.
It's odd in any event, as Kate is vague on a reason for G's departure -- very unlike Kate, as she shared everything.
King

Mason, OH

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#1341
Mar 1, 2014
 

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It's certainly possible, but I find it difficult to believe that Kate was administering his meds, especially narcotics. Because of the potential for abuse and theft of opioids, my experience was that they weren't even kept on the floor in the hospital. I know in my case, and in the cases of others who were on morphine, fentanyl, etc., the meds had to be sent up or delivered by the pharmacy. They were not even available on the floor. I just can't see that they would hand them over to mom to administer. But honestly...there have been so many lies and deceit...who knows.

I have no doubt Kate exists, and has 7-9 children, and that some of them were sick. I believe that Joshua and Bethany had what were potentially significant health issues. Beyond that, everything is suspect, imho...
Madi wrote:
<quoted text>
<snip>This all assumes Josh was on the dosages Kate reported. I strongly suspect she may have been taking his meds. The reason? She insisted on administering his pain meds, even while in hospital. That's ***really*** odd.(She even talks about the nurse Juli encouraging her to give Josh more pain meds.)
When I was in hospital with my daughter, the nurses handled all of that. They wouldn't even let me give her her iron supplements for her anemia. They had to do it for liability purposes (makes sense....if you have nurses and parents dosing a child, you could easily over-do it or double dose. So it's logical to have only the nurses do it so it can all be recorded in the computer.)
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#1342
Mar 1, 2014
 
King wrote:
It's certainly possible, but I find it difficult to believe that Kate was administering his meds, especially narcotics. Because of the potential for abuse and theft of opioids, my experience was that they weren't even kept on the floor in the hospital. I know in my case, and in the cases of others who were on morphine, fentanyl, etc., the meds had to be sent up or delivered by the pharmacy. They were not even available on the floor. I just can't see that they would hand them over to mom to administer. But honestly...there have been so many lies and deceit...who knows.<quoted text>
Agreed, agreed.
I was under the impression she'd brought his meds from home (vs. them giving her meds to give to him.) That's why I'd believed her. And thinking about it more and more, having Kate administer meds in hospital seems super suspicious from a MSbP perspective and just in general.
But you're very right - she may have lied about that too!

Since: Oct 13

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#1343
Mar 1, 2014
 

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After all I have read it is easy to see that Kate has an obsession with medication. In one of the forums she even has "medicine" listed as an interest. She is either looking for more medicine of some kind and it just seems fishy that she focuses so much on medicine. I follow many sick children with all different illnesses, no other mother talks like Kate does. I dont care how much a parent knows or wants to know, thats great and all to research and understand as much as possible but to go up against doctor after doctor who have gone to school is absurd! Kates professor on medicine is called Google! It is my opinion and suspicion that she was caught in that hospital tampering/interfering with joshs meds in some fashion. I hope I am wrong....
Following this story

Seattle, WA

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#1344
Mar 1, 2014
 
Madi wrote:
I too think it's fishy that Dr. G left and then came back. I **really** wonder if she didn't realize there was an investigation when she signed off...and then learned about it, so she came back per their request to help them.
My thoughts exactly. She wanted to get away from that crazy situation as soon as possible, quit the case, but was asked back by investigators.

Since: Nov 13

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#1345
Mar 1, 2014
 

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Hospitals will not allow a patient to have at home meds, even OTC, administered at the hospital. They have to have ultimate quality control. I had wondered about the amount of meds that Joshua was said to have been on. Even with that, the idea that Kate would exaggerate that is another point in the MbP column for me. He was weaned quickly from what she writes on Caring Bridge. Within days of his hospitalization, they are withholding Seroquel, and adjusting Methadone and Fentanyl dosages. The methadone probably made some of the changes possible, if, indeed, he was on the kind of cocktail Kate described.

I wonder about the nurse and the Dilaudid comment. I wonder if the purpose of the hospital visit was to get Kate to disclose when she was at her wit end. No nurse would ever jeopardize her license by having someone else administer drugs to a patient. If he had died, she would be liable from a civil and criminal perspective. It didn't add up then and doesn't add up now.

I can't remember where I heard that Joshua spent longer in the hospital after CB went down and the police became involved. I would think that he was weaned from the methadone during that time. If as many describe he is doing well, including going to school and walking, he is probably opiate free.

We won't know if the drug amounts were true. We won't know if doctors prescribed by phone. We won't know if she did get legal prescriptions and sell them or use them by herself.

But, I am satisfied when I think that the hospice inability to treat, the doctor on the fence, the PICU move to a floor room, the callous psychiatrist, and the last hospitalization were a set-up to pin medical neglect on her and get this boy out of her distorted care. She got out-gamed this time around. She had no more doctor access, then hospice fell through, and she had to go to Portland. Further, she was at her wit's end with his behavior (drug-induced or behavorial) and felt she had to develop allies. And, the hospital seems to have given her "good" health care providers and "bad" health care providers, which appear to have lulled her into confiding in doctors. She was out of control with anger and frustration by her own account with what she felt was judgment from the doctors and nurses and I think she made a couple of really bad mistakes.

.
Madi wrote:
<quoted text>

This all assumes Josh was on the dosages Kate reported. I strongly suspect she may have been taking his meds. The reason? She insisted on administering his pain meds, even while in hospital. That's ***really*** odd.(She even talks about the nurse Juli encouraging her to give Josh more pain meds.)

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