joshua parker

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#1251 Feb 26, 2014
As I recall, Kate was not told by a doctor but had suspicions from an XRay tech. He did not have cancer. He did not have the growth in the end. There was a suspicious spot. Gooing to Portland would have been the dxing of cancer. I have people in my family who have been dx'ed with cancer. Never have we gotten a dx from an XRay. Kate has been around the block enough to know how a complex diagnosis is arrived at. She could have posted that she was scared terribly. She could have posted that she had researched and she was terrified. But no, we read he has cancer. Additionally, it would create one more time when Kate would have been the predictor of a Joshua new illness. It is too sketchy for me. It isn't about well informed for me.
Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks this was helpful.
From this post I can see why it was stated as fact, but happily wasn't the case. As a well informed mother she took what she knew and was told and it made sense. In short she was told he had what was thought to be cancer/ looked like, and added that to the knowledge that this was common amongst those with the cromo defect. So she shared with though of us following what was devastating news for any parent, and also included us in why they would not be seeking treatment for this aliment.
Also not that they had already planned further tests, these can disprove a early diagnosis of cancer or give a full real scary picture of all that is going on.
As such if this is the post that everyone has been boacking about I do not even see the relevance... unless of course this Whole this truly was fabricated. But I'm still not convinced it was All a lie. As such then I'm inclined to believe much of it was true.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#1252 Feb 26, 2014
Wondering if anyone here has the online 'outing' mentioned below?
"Kate claimed online a few years ago that her husband admitted he was gay and there was no real marriage between the 2 of them. Odd, but that's what she said. And then they went on to adopt Hanna and Bethany, which some of us who'd known her for years online thought strange since we knew her husband's "secret". "

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#1253 Feb 26, 2014
Kate had the habit of jumping to conclusions, then treating them like fact. If in fact Joshua was officially diagnosed with cancer at that appointment, then why the need for later testing to verify what was supposedly already been diagnosed (only to say he didn't have it)? Know what I mean? It seems more likely that cancer was a possible explanation of the mass they saw, but further testing would need to confirm it. She only heard cancer, then stated it as fact, then made plans for his future from there.

Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks this was helpful.
From this post I can see why it was stated as fact, but happily wasn't the case. As a well informed mother she took what she knew and was told and it made sense. In short she was told he had what was thought to be cancer/ looked like, and added that to the knowledge that this was common amongst those with the cromo defect. So she shared with though of us following what was devastating news for any parent, and also included us in why they would not be seeking treatment for this aliment.
Also not that they had already planned further tests, these can disprove a early diagnosis of cancer or give a full real scary picture of all that is going on.
As such if this is the post that everyone has been boacking about I do not even see the relevance... unless of course this Whole this truly was fabricated. But I'm still not convinced it was All a lie. As such then I'm inclined to believe much of it was true.
Wow

San Francisco, CA

#1254 Feb 26, 2014
http://www.tonsofkids.net/forum/read.php...

This isn't an official outing, but it relates to the homosexual issue,

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#1255 Feb 26, 2014
The way I see it, whether or not Charley is a homosexual or not is irrelevent, and the speculation makes me a bit uncomfortable. If Kate told friends this, it was probably in confidence (as I've never seen it shared online before) and it might not even be true. She is a KNOWN liar.

Whether it is true or not, it's really Charley's tale to tell, and he is not here telling it.

Since: Nov 13

Location hidden

#1256 Feb 26, 2014
Agree. Also, without a positive scan or biopsy, no doctor would use the word cancer. Kate often got information from providers that went beyond what most people would get. Either she was exaggerating (quite possible) or putting 2 and 2 together to make her 5. She might have asked if it was a mass. Most techs or doctors know to not speculate because people run with it.
Wowza95 wrote:
Kate had the habit of jumping to conclusions, then treating them like fact. If in fact Joshua was officially diagnosed with cancer at that appointment, then why the need for later testing to verify what was supposedly already been diagnosed (only to say he didn't have it)? Know what I mean? It seems more likely that cancer was a possible explanation of the mass they saw, but further testing would need to confirm it. She only heard cancer, then stated it as fact, then made plans for his future from there.
<quoted text>
Kristin

United States

#1257 Feb 26, 2014
All of this just makes me very sad. To whose benefit do you post? To Joshua's? To the rest of the kids? To Kate's? Or, to your own? I apologize to those of you who are truly interested in the fate of the children. However, I am saddened by many comments on this board. They were not brought forward to find a solution, but to further dramatize a difficult situation. Please consider ending this thread. Those children, all of them, have been through so much already. I ask for you to pray for them, and for their parents, privately and let the authorities that be carry this weight on their shoulders. Forgive those who need to be forgiven, and move on from this. You are not who has been wronged. Let these children have the peace they so greatly deserve.
King

Dayton, OH

#1258 Feb 26, 2014
Kristin, I understand your point, but I disagree that people other than the children & family have not been wronged. This was not a public incident, but a very public one. Money was taken under what are now presumed to be fraudulent or false pretenses. People were mislead for a long, long time. People may be angry, hurt, and frustrated and need closure, and also to understand how they (myself included) were fooled and sucked in by such deceit. So while I understand your point, and agree that some comments are probably out of line, it is not as simple as your comments suggest.
Kristin wrote:
All of this just makes me very sad. To whose benefit do you post? To Joshua's? To the rest of the kids? To Kate's? Or, to your own? I apologize to those of you who are truly interested in the fate of the children. However, I am saddened by many comments on this board. They were not brought forward to find a solution, but to further dramatize a difficult situation. Please consider ending this thread. Those children, all of them, have been through so much already. I ask for you to pray for them, and for their parents, privately and let the authorities that be carry this weight on their shoulders. Forgive those who need to be forgiven, and move on from this. You are not who has been wronged. Let these children have the peace they so greatly deserve.
Nat

Nipomo, CA

#1259 Feb 26, 2014
WOW! I literally read all 1200+ post since this morning! This is nuts.

I was totally one of those people who check Joshua's blog daily, and when she locked it up, I was devastated. I thought he had died.

I had googled Kate's name multiple times looking for an obit or something. A few months ago, I even emailed Kate Estes to get an update.( I follow her blog as well about her son Noah). Kate was very vague, said the family wanted privacy, but that no one had passed. I was relieved and confused all at the same time.

Before she ended Bethany's blog, I had grown suspicious of her attitude, but really tried not to cast judgement since I'd never been in her shoes. I tried to think that maybe she seemed distant was her way of preparing herself for so much loss. But Joshua's CB was SO much different.

It all makes so much sense now.

I'm heartbroken for those kids. Regardless of what they went through, they were taken away from everything they knew, and that has to be scary. I hope one day they understand it was the best thing for them. They are kids that have lived with this BS their entire lives, I really hope they are getting really good therapy. And hopefully they're together. At least that would "soften" the blow.

I only followed them on CB, which I was lead to by Lorraine ( www.allarepreciousinhissight.com ). I really hope she speaks up. Kate Estes too, unless they can't of course, legally. I would try to clear my name ASAP.
Nat

Nipomo, CA

#1260 Feb 26, 2014
Kristin wrote:
All of this just makes me very sad. To whose benefit do you post? To Joshua's? To the rest of the kids? To Kate's? Or, to your own? I apologize to those of you who are truly interested in the fate of the children. However, I am saddened by many comments on this board. They were not brought forward to find a solution, but to further dramatize a difficult situation. Please consider ending this thread. Those children, all of them, have been through so much already. I ask for you to pray for them, and for their parents, privately and let the authorities that be carry this weight on their shoulders. Forgive those who need to be forgiven, and move on from this. You are not who has been wronged. Let these children have the peace they so greatly deserve.
There are always a couple people in each group that go off on tangents, but I'm sure most of us here can agree that our ONLY concern is for the kids.

This thread, I'm sure, has helped the investigation tremendously. Especially since Kate is/was posting on some many different sites and lots of people have screenshots or private messages from her personally.

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#1261 Feb 26, 2014
I remember, from CB posts, Bethany's recovery as being complicated by poor healing as a result of her need for steroids to keep the JRA from flaring. It seemed like it took an incredible amount of time for her body to recover and there were concerns of life-threatening infection.
Madi wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought about this too -- that perhaps Bethany was super sick like Kate said and more aggressive treatments would harm her.(And even if this was the case, wouldn't you still want to see if there were any good alternatives to aggressive treatment? I would.)
But I don't believe that Bethie was super sick. You know why?
It's because Bethany had open heart surgery -- which we know from the photos (oh, that sweet one with her sitting up in the hospital bed, with the pigtails with the pink twisty ribbons and the giant smile with those cute cheeks! Ooh, I just want to snuggle her up when I see that photo! So darn cute!) And she came through it with ease.
If she had really been struggling to the degree Kate implied, she'd never have survived. But she not only survived, she came through it with relative ease by Kate's own account.
And the kids who go into open heart surgery in less than perfect condition virtually always struggle to recover -- it takes weeks, months even. They're often on a ventilator for a long time too, with lots of tubes and such. So awful. But none of this happened with Bethie (thank goodness!) So considering it all in retrospect, I do think her issues were exaggerated.
I think that's what made Kate so believable, though. All of her deceptions (or what seem to be deceptions -- it's difficult to know precisely what's true and what's not) had threads of truth. I think when we hear a story and see that parts of the story are true, we're much more apt to believe everything else in the story, even if there's no evidence to back it up.
Cassie-confused

Taylorville, IL

#1262 Feb 26, 2014
Agree. At 8 months my youngest daughter had a lump on her chest. I knew her dr thought it was cancer when he looked at me with tears in his eyes and said I don't like this. But even then he would NOT say cancer. We went for xrays 10 minutes later and then a biopsy later that week. I could tell they all thought cancer but no one said it. No dr or xray tech will say that without proof and if they did, they need fired.
momtomyboys wrote:
Agree. Also, without a positive scan or biopsy, no doctor would use the word cancer. Kate often got information from providers that went beyond what most people would get. Either she was exaggerating (quite possible) or putting 2 and 2 together to make her 5. She might have asked if it was a mass. Most techs or doctors know to not speculate because people run with it.
<quoted text>
Questions

Eugene, OR

#1263 Feb 26, 2014
Nat wrote:
<quoted text>
There are always a couple people in each group that go off on tangents, but I'm sure most of us here can agree that our ONLY concern is for the kids.
This thread, I'm sure, has helped the investigation tremendously. Especially since Kate is/was posting on some many different sites and lots of people have screenshots or private messages from her personally.
Two fold
first the removal was not in there best interest ... it was just procedure|
secondly a site like this one probably only hampers the real detective work going on
What would have been better is a simple web page asking for specific info and ways to reach the detectives not a opinion board
thirdly you got through this whole board in one day .. wow you are wonder-women or something... it took me over a week to catch up .. with all the links and what not
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

#1264 Feb 26, 2014
King wrote:
Kristin, I understand your point, but I disagree that people other than the children & family have not been wronged. This was not a public incident, but a very public one. Money was taken under what are now presumed to be fraudulent or false pretenses. People were mislead for a long, long time. People may be angry, hurt, and frustrated and need closure, and also to understand how they (myself included) were fooled and sucked in by such deceit. So while I understand your point, and agree that some comments are probably out of line, it is not as simple as your comments suggest.
<quoted text>
Very well said, King.
I agree.
We donated money under false pretenses.
We *CARED* about these kids. We prayed, we cried, we ate it all up. We felt like we "knew" them to some degree.
Then, we were cut off.
We want to know what's true, what was a lie.(Probably never will, but that won't stop us from wanting to know.)
Most of all, we want to understand WHY and HOW this happened -- all under our noses.
How were so many of us deceived? I can't speak for others, but I want to learn from this, as I believed it all, hook, line and sinker and that's so embarrassing and frustrating to me.
I supported someone I didn't *really* know....I would have never supported her if I'd known about her other online postings, which are so far from my own values and parenting beliefs that I'm humiliated that I supported this woman and encouraged others to do the same.
But most of all, we cared about those kids. We want to know how this all "ends" -- I'm desperate to know that these kids will be okay. We need closure. We need justice for anyone and everyone who committed wrongs against those kids.
That's why I'm here. And we're not hurting anyone; we're not spewing venom on multiple sites across the web (as Kate did to others like Mckmama.) It's here on one board, sharing our thoughts with others. Sure, some remarks are a bit out there, but that's life. And fortunately, there's nobody forcing you to participate if you don't want to.
Questions

Eugene, OR

#1265 Feb 26, 2014
Madi wrote:
<quoted text>
Very well said, King.
I agree.
We donated money under false pretenses.
We *CARED* about these kids. We prayed, we cried, we ate it all up. We felt like we "knew" them to some degree.
Then, we were cut off.
We want to know what's true, what was a lie.(Probably never will, but that won't stop us from wanting to know.)
Most of all, we want to understand WHY and HOW this happened -- all under our noses.
How were so many of us deceived? I can't speak for others, but I want to learn from this, as I believed it all, hook, line and sinker and that's so embarrassing and frustrating to me.
I supported someone I didn't *really* know....I would have never supported her if I'd known about her other online postings, which are so far from my own values and parenting beliefs that I'm humiliated that I supported this woman and encouraged others to do the same.
But most of all, we cared about those kids. We want to know how this all "ends" -- I'm desperate to know that these kids will be okay. We need closure. We need justice for anyone and everyone who committed wrongs against those kids.
That's why I'm here. And we're not hurting anyone; we're not spewing venom on multiple sites across the web (as Kate did to others like Mckmama.) It's here on one board, sharing our thoughts with others. Sure, some remarks are a bit out there, but that's life. And fortunately, there's nobody forcing you to participate if you don't want to.
Ok to spin the bottle.... What if what we Believed was true.. at least to the best of Kate's knowledge, and she shared from the heart vulnerably about her children to you and I. Then we gave in good faith, and we Prayed and God answered.
The accusations that arise on and to this board about spewing venom and such come from the fact that by our own admonition we don't know everything and if we evaluate what we do have, unless we start off by looking at if we've been wronged, and proceed from there; then there is no way in which one can come to a definitive conclusion that we have been intentionally duped. As Such by posting that we know she did / I'm sure she/ I can't believe... when we don't know , we might suspect, and by such are hurt... but Point here is that our approach can be seen as Venomous, as we have not hard facts to prove we are not just stewing in rumor city.
Danielle

American Fork, UT

#1266 Feb 26, 2014
How in the world did I miss the fact that Kate is Mormon?

Since: Oct 13

Location hidden

#1267 Feb 26, 2014
Well, based on the fact that so many people read the CB blogs for both children....I'm actually surprised that there aren't more individuals participating in this board. I dont remember the number but I believe it was into the hundreds of thousands of visits. Anyone who is bothered by this discussion just shouldn't read it. That makes the most sense.
As for kids being removed just as procedure alone.....then I would think after this much time Kate should have been able to clear up the concerns and have her kids back by now. Who knows, I sure don't because I've never had my kid taken from me. But if that did happen to me, I'd be as transparent as can be and I'd have a whole army of friends and family supporting me. I mean really is there anyone standing up in support of Kate now? Anyone saying she is a great and wonderful caring loving mother? No.
another old friend conned

Safford, AZ

#1268 Feb 27, 2014
Danielle wrote:
How in the world did I miss the fact that Kate is Mormon?
She's not. She was just commenting on yet another board that happened to contain a post from someone who was.
another old friend conned

Safford, AZ

#1269 Feb 27, 2014
That forum was for people who have "Tons of Kids", not specifically LDS people. And I don't think her response meant that Charlie was gay. I think her "speaking as one of those women" referred to the comment directly before that that talked about unhappy marriages and being trapped with a spouse who doesn't love them.

"PaulaK
I know several people on this board have unhappy marriages and are trapped with spouses that don't love them. I just don't think that's what God wants for us.
kpmomof7
Speaking as one of those women, you're right. It sucks. And I agree that the way things are is not the way God wants them to be. "
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

#1270 Feb 27, 2014
Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok to spin the bottle.... What if what we Believed was true.. at least to the best of Kate's knowledge, and she shared from the heart vulnerably about her children to you and I. Then we gave in good faith, and we Prayed and God answered.
The accusations that arise on and to this board about spewing venom and such come from the fact that by our own admonition we don't know everything and if we evaluate what we do have, unless we start off by looking at if we've been wronged, and proceed from there; then there is no way in which one can come to a definitive conclusion that we have been intentionally duped. As Such by posting that we know she did / I'm sure she/ I can't believe... when we don't know , we might suspect, and by such are hurt... but Point here is that our approach can be seen as Venomous, as we have not hard facts to prove we are not just stewing in rumor city.
It's a fair counter argument.
But personally, I know we were deceived based on communicating with the detective. There's sufficient evidence that we were deceived. It has been indicated that the medical records were on the up and up (what was examined up to that point) and the detective confirmed that they weren't seriously ill on death's doorstep and they were living normal lives. So if we put those two bits of known info together, the logical conclusion is that none of the docs thought they were deathly ill.

But you're right, we don't know precisely what's true, what's not. I wish we did.

I don't buy the "they took the kids away as a precaution" bit. Yes, that does occur on occasion when there's evidence of abuse or mistreatment; they will take away the kids if there is a serious potential risk and no family members can care for them while they conduct an investigation.
But in those cases, it's days -- a couple weeks at most -- as it's A) traumatic for the kids and B) the over-taxed foster care system doesn't want to care for kids that can be safely returned home. I know this for a fact, as two of my sisters do foster care -- one in Oregon, in fact -- and they frequently get kids who are removed during an investigation. It's a majority of the kids who come to them; it's short term and they're in this very situation. In cases where the kids are going home, that happens within a matter of days. My sister in Oregon has had hundreds of foster kids over the past 25 years and she said she couldn't recall a case where the home was deemed suitable that took over approx 10 days to 2 weeks. Of course, a more lengthy investigation often results. But that initial suitability evaluation is typically a fast process.

Also remember, the other kids were taken away a fair amount of time after Joshua went into custody -- a week or two later, if I recall properly. So that also suggests to me that they did a fair amount of probing before those kids were removed.
And Joshua's "intervention" was something that had apparently been planned, so it says to me that she was on their radar for a while.

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