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On verge of not caring

Dallas, TX

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#623
Jan 12, 2014
 
Amendment on court docket comment: sorry, spaced out on the "they're cached" part. Will consider that the next time I'm on a non-mobile Internet option.
Rumors

Oaxaca, Mexico

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#624
Jan 12, 2014
 

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Just Sayin wrote:
My comment regarding Adam's "mannerisms" were neither bigoted, nor revolting. They were merely an observation. Some people might find the term Christian equally offensive under the circumstances.
There have been comments posted that were a great deal more bigoted in my opinion.
Because gay men are all interior designers who use a lot of hair product, right? And heterosexual men are all lumber jacks. Sexual stereotypes are just plain ignorant.

Aside from that *who the hell CARES if he's gay.* It's completely and utterly irrelevant.
Rumors

Oaxaca, Mexico

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#625
Jan 12, 2014
 

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And no, obviously I do NOT care if Adam is gay. Let's not project here. I see LGBT people as *people* with *human* characteristics and individual personalities. Not walking stereotypes.
Anyway, this is all besides the point. My whole argument is that we shouldn't be making judgments on Adam who, like Joshua and Bethany is a *victim* of Kate Parker. Grown or not. That kind of brainwashing doesn't magically go away when you turn 18. If Kate were exposed ten years from now when Joshua was 18 and he still thought that he was gravely ill would you cast this kind of judgment on him?
None of Kate's children deserve judgement. They only deserve our sympathy and best wishes.
I've seen some insinuations that I'm a Christian. I am -- in fact -- an atheist, and I don't believe that children should be held accountable for their parent's misconduct especially when their parents have cause emotional harm that bleeds into their children's adulthood.
All I am suggesting here is that we use a little desecration and withhold our judgment about Kate's older children. I have no doubt that they are probably read this and that they are likely experiencing a complicated set of emotions. I highly suggest a paper called "Munchausen by proxy victims in adulthood: A first look" by Judith Libow. I gained access to it via my University, but there might be a PDF online somewhere. It's extremely informative and it might give you a better idea about what the older kids are dealing with.
Making statements about how someone has "gay characteristics" and how they are an "idiot" isn't constructive here. We should be hoping that ALL of Kate's children are healing and we shouldn't be making comments that might potentially upset them during this incredibly difficult time. As time progress and they better understand the situation Adam and Megan are likely going to be deal with a lot guilt. They don't need more from strangers. This wasn't their fault.
Rumors

Oaxaca, Mexico

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#626
Jan 12, 2014
 
(Sorry for all of the typos. I'm not deft enough for an iPad apparently.)

Since: Nov 13

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#627
Jan 12, 2014
 

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If that's true, then shouldn't Kate's behaviour be excused because of the abuse that happened to her as a child?

Of course not because part of growing up is shedding the old, rough skin and nurturing the tender new skin underneath...and choosing to rise above and beyond what happened to you. I know that adam and Megan were grossly sheltered from the real world but I wholeheartedly believe that despite whatever brainwashing happened to them, they had enough exposure to the outside world to know that things were really, really wrong.
Interested observer

Toledo, OH

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#628
Jan 12, 2014
 

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Wow there are some strong opinions here. I donated money but that is not what really bothers me.

I am just concerned about all the children in the household who "lived" with the notion that Joshua and Bethany were dying and then themselves being labeled with having some illness or disorder. I pray that they are placed with families who can nurture and care for them.

And for all that Kate posted. How do we even know what was true and what was not. Like the story of Joshua's brain stem being mush. If he is thriving now, one would think that was another story that she made up or embellished.

And if Kate does have MbPS those people can be very persuasive and her older kids loved and believed their
Mother. They are also pawns in the game whether or not they reslized it at some point.
lurker

Idaho Falls, ID

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#629
Jan 12, 2014
 

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I'm not making excuses for Megan and Adam. I'm saying that you don't suddenly become all full of wisdom and maturity the moment you turn 18 or 21. It takes some time and life experience to develop that. So even if they were legally bound to report anything amiss, they may have either not recognized anything was wrong (due to being conditioned to the notion that Mom was always right) or just hadn't developed courage to defy their mom. Even adults with families of their own have struggles with this sometimes. No not sometimes. Often! Simply being old enough to father a child doesn't make one wise and strong enough to make good judgments and do the right thing. I would think that if Adam does have Asbergers that would figure into this even more. They tend to see things very black and white and aren't so good at picking up nuances.

Whether Kate should be excused because of her history of being abused, that's probably up to the judge. In my opinion it would have an impact on the course of action. She shouldn't be excused completely but may need some pretty intensive therapy before getting her kids back. This is all just supposition on my part.
Madi

Cape Coral, FL

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#630
Jan 12, 2014
 

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Sadie673 wrote:
If that's true, then shouldn't Kate's behaviour be excused because of the abuse that happened to her as a child?
Of course not because part of growing up is shedding the old, rough skin and nurturing the tender new skin underneath...and choosing to rise above and beyond what happened to you. I know that adam and Megan were grossly sheltered from the real world but I wholeheartedly believe that despite whatever brainwashing happened to them, they had enough exposure to the outside world to know that things were really, really wrong.
Well said.
And I think @FeelingUsed's comment from earlier is worthy of repeating:

"I have to agree that both Megan and Adam where paid by the state to care for Joshua and Bethany. They were mandated and trained for this. If you are responsible and capable to care for young "sick" kids you are responsible enough to take the blame when they weren't receiving proper care. You can't have it both ways."

Although, in fairness, it takes time to overcome brainwashing and a fair amount of real world exposure before you really put it all together. Plus, you've got to overcome denial. It's a process.
I know both Adam and Megan are quite young, so I do think it's possible that they saw the signs, but were still in the early parts of the process and didn't yet realize the significance, even with training as a caregiver.

But it doesn't negate culpability for any wrong-doings that may have been committed. Just ask cult members and criminals who've been held responsible for their actions. Having a definitive cause for your tendencies/actions (or inaction) doesn't change the nature of those actions.

Since: Oct 13

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#631
Jan 12, 2014
 

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If it was acceptable to blame heinous actions on one's upbringing, well then criminals wouldn't be locked up.

Since: Nov 13

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#632
Jan 12, 2014
 

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lurker wrote:
I still think she may very well have thought Joshua was going to die, especially if a doctor told her that. And she may have thought Bethany would too and at that point went a little crazy and lost her ability to see the situation clearly. Has anyone ever thought that she might not have done anything intentionally?
The doctors were hearing the kid's symptoms from Kate. The doctors are responsible for not really doing lots of dx work when things were getting worse for Joshua. She wrote about calling for more or new meds all the time because Joshua was having problems. No hospice was ever able to meet her needs because they controlled the meds and made the decisions so we heard the Joshua was too medically complicated. The specialists were often in Portland and consulted by phone.

Over the years, every single child had a serious disease or three. Adam has had Marfans, ASD and others. Megan had Tourettes. The list goes on and on. I believe she could not get enough attention with chronic illnesses so Joshua and Bethany had to have terminal illnesses. I believe everything she does is intentional.
Danielle

Alpine, UT

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#633
Jan 12, 2014
 

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I cannot offer links because of privacy concerns obviously.
But here is my two cents on the RAD/Ukraine/DS issue.

I know 20 kids adopted from Ukraine, who have DS.
The vast majority are doing well and in the homes of the families that adopted them.

2 of them ultimately had to be adopted by families more experienced with RAD.
Family that were able to focus solely on that child, rather than multiple other children.
It was heartbreaking and horrible for the initial adoptive families... but they did what was best for the adopted kids.

That doesn't mean the other 18 don't have an issue with RAD...
It simply means that those families are dealing with it privately if they do.
On verge of not caring wrote:
I typed a lengthy post earlier that apparently is lost in the satellite system. I cannot recreate the same post. The gist of it was:
Yes, I have seen pictures and videos of Joshua where he was happy and healthy looking.
Re: rad and ds. I've not heard that about those being adopted out of Ukraine. If I start caring again I'll research that aspect more. Thank you for the pointer.
Re: court docket disappearing. I see. That doesn't really change the point I was trying to make, though.
Just Sayin

Sydney, Australia

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#634
Jan 12, 2014
 
Rumors wrote:
<quoted text>
Because gay men are all interior designers who use a lot of hair product, right? And heterosexual men are all lumber jacks. Sexual stereotypes are just plain ignorant.
Aside from that *who the hell CARES if he's gay.* It's completely and utterly irrelevant.
As a parent of a gay man I agree that it may be irrelevant - I reiterate, it was merely an observation.(one that I am more than qualified to make)
Rumors

Oaxaca, Mexico

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#635
Jan 12, 2014
 

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I'm shocked at the amount of judgment and *willful* ignorance in this topic. I understand that people are angry and they have every right to be, but none of you have any right to pass judgment on two *very* young adults who grew up in a situation that you can't possibly fathom.

I'm out. I can't read this incredibly hateful drivel anymore. Again, I wish the best for all of. Kate's kids.
Interested Observer

Farmington, MI

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#636
Jan 12, 2014
 

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If Kate hoodwinked MANY doctors, don't you think she could have hoodwinked ALL of her kids? All of them are victims and are in need of our understanding and prayers.

Given all that we have learned.... Can you really believe anything that was written is the truth?

Since: Jan 14

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#637
Jan 12, 2014
 

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as someone once on the receiving end of a parker family relay smack down (kate, then megan, then adam) where they posted my full name in the caringbridge comment section in a series of inappropriate responses to a well-intentioned and caring comment taken the wrong way and then deleted, i will not be pressured by the masses to feel sympathy for any of the adults in the situation. not sure why the propaganda is needed. people will feel the way they want.

Since: Jan 14

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#638
Jan 13, 2014
 
kpmomof0, what had you written?
confused

Taylorville, IL

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#639
Jan 14, 2014
 

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On verge of not caring wrote:
I thought I was completely past this and disconnected, but I was wrong. I care and I want to know the absolute truth - which will likely never be known.
It bothers me to see misinformation. Like stating that Kate never sought a second, or third opinion, when she stated that they had. Joshua is soon to be 8yo and has had difficulties since before he was born... SB was a new issue for them, but combined with the later discovery if chiari to go with it led to searching for the best pedi neurosurgeon. I remember her reports of seeing more than one specialist before deciding on the one she had. And, that dr has helped Joshua over the years. When that started, I remember wondering if she'd considered drs in other states/areas. But, when I researched drs in that specialty, the dr she settled in with was one of the most renown in the country... So, why wouldn't she stay with them?!?
Charlie's daughter had no love lost for Kate, either, you know? The thing that always boggled my mind was continuing to use the same sperm to conceive after the first genetic issues became known. For a family that already was "blended," did it really matter if the younger children came from a different donor?
Some of the things you all say about Bethany as evidence that she was "fine" fit exactly into a RAD diagnosis, so I find it difficult to accept those comments as evidence Kate was lying.
Now, this may step on toes, so I want to start by stating that I am not accusing anyone here of this. The copy/paste of court information counts for nothing when it's not backed with the link to the actual documents - which every link I've seen did not lead to. I'm not saying it isn't real, just that it's not sufficient evidence.
I'm sorry you didn't see the link. Maybe if you go back and look you will find it. It may be expired though as all it is a calendar entry for upcoming court dates. If it is expired I will take a screen shot next time so then people who didn't get to see it, can see that it is true.

I have closely followed the adoption of 4 different children that came from the Ukraine. Every single one looked horrible and showed signs of RAD while in the Ukraine. But once home with extensive therapies and lots of love and attention they have flourished, not gone the other way. Where were all of Bethany's therapies? No matter how she acted she should have NEVER just been left alone to sit there. That is very counterproductive and I cannot see any therapist telling them to just basically abandon her.
confused

Taylorville, IL

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#640
Jan 14, 2014
 

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blah blah blah wrote:
If you truly cared about the kids you wwouldstop this crap. They are in state custody. They are healing now. Let them move on.
Highly doubt us discussing this is in anyway affecting the children. Especially those who can't read.
confused

Taylorville, IL

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#641
Jan 14, 2014
 

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Like was stated before. Adam or Megan were usually at the hospital, did they not hear any discrepancies in what the drs were saying to what their mom said? Did they not see any discrepancies in what was happening to Joshua and what should have been going on (actually looking ill, etc), things they should have learned from their training?

I get that Kate probably had quite a bit of power over what they thought, but what if she didn't? Adam sure likes to show off on youtube..who is to say he didn't like the attention to? We don't know so why should we feel awful for them right now? To me, they had to be in cahoots at least a little, even if it was just Kate telling them what the Drs were saying was wrong. Why not tell someone?

Age has NOTHING to do it with. At 21 I was married, working, in college with 2 children. Just because some people are still immature at 20-21, doesn't mean they are all.

Since: Nov 13

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#642
Jan 14, 2014
 
confused wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry you didn't see the link. Maybe if you go back and look you will find it. It may be expired though as all it is a calendar entry for upcoming court dates. If it is expired I will take a screen shot next time so then people who didn't get to see it, can see that it is true.
I have closely followed the adoption of 4 different children that came from the Ukraine. Every single one looked horrible and showed signs of RAD while in the Ukraine. But once home with extensive therapies and lots of love and attention they have flourished, not gone the other way. Where were all of Bethany's therapies? No matter how she acted she should have NEVER just been left alone to sit there. That is very counterproductive and I cannot see any therapist telling them to just basically abandon her.
I have a screen shot of the last one. I just don't know how to post ir here. I also have a copy of the first one. Just not a screen shot.

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