ATV BAN lady again....
Over the Legal Line

Elizabeth, PA

#122 Feb 16, 2013
Sue Happy wrote:
<quoted text>
Doubtful.

Keep in mind that "anonymity" only goes so far.
At least the employee you talk about has the balls to say things about people under his real name.
It is the things that are said that may cross over the legal line, not the fact that something was posted. In other words, the content is actionable in my opinion.

This could become a dicey issue for the author, mayor, and his boss the fire chief. The next move is up to those targeted by his Facebook posting.

A former city employee resigned over something not too different. The precedent has been set, perhaps. This is not a good situation for some.
Come on

Pittsburgh, PA

#123 Feb 16, 2013
Lady Lawyer Support Team wrote:
<quoted text>
You are misdirected or misinformed to think you can out fox or chide the Lady Lawyer and her many supporters.
We all know that the Mayor Cherepko did not sign the ordinance. We all know that Mayor Cherepko thinks he is devious and cunning. We all know that the mayor will not encourage MPD getting to the ATV Noise Dome until after the culprits leave the premises or will not enforce the ordinance because it is NEBULOUS?
The Lady Lawyer will prepare for these disrespectful and foolish acts by contacting the state police and complaining that the MPD controlled by a mayor, who refused to sign an ordinance, is abusing his discretion and authority. If that does not work, some 11:00 pm TV news coverage will do it or well-known Mr. Rich Lord, PG Investigating Reporter. The last action is to seek the right legal remendy.
But the mayor and fire chief should be more concerned about how to handle an employee who was vulgar and disrespectful to some tax paying citizen on Face Book. This could be a very actionable item. Stay tuned on this one. Please do not tell the Lady Lawyer and her supporters about this serious and powerful option. How does employee conduct like this not bring negativity to the city and mayor’s office when coupled with the 2X DUI solicitor? Where does RESPECT start?
Wait a second...the Fire Chief handle an disciplinary issue? Come on really? He would have to care first.
Lady Lawyer Support Team

Elizabeth, PA

#124 Feb 16, 2013
Come on wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a second...the Fire Chief handle an disciplinary issue? Come on really? He would have to care first.
In this case the force of FCC law may perk his interest and be a head slap for the mayor. I am not sure excactly what law was broken but I am sure most would not want to be in the Facebook author's fireman boots.
Wow

Pittsburgh, PA

#125 Feb 17, 2013
Lady Lawyer Support Team wrote:
<quoted text>
You are misdirected or misinformed to think you can out fox or chide the Lady Lawyer and her many supporters.
We all know that the Mayor Cherepko did not sign the ordinance. We all know that Mayor Cherepko thinks he is devious and cunning. We all know that the mayor will not encourage MPD getting to the ATV Noise Dome until after the culprits leave the premises or will not enforce the ordinance because it is NEBULOUS?
The Lady Lawyer will prepare for these disrespectful and foolish acts by contacting the state police and complaining that the MPD controlled by a mayor, who refused to sign an ordinance, is abusing his discretion and authority. If that does not work, some 11:00 pm TV news coverage will do it or well-known Mr. Rich Lord, PG Investigating Reporter. The last action is to seek the right legal remendy.
But the mayor and fire chief should be more concerned about how to handle an employee who was vulgar and disrespectful to some tax paying citizen on Face Book. This could be a very actionable item. Stay tuned on this one. Please do not tell the Lady Lawyer and her supporters about this serious and powerful option. How does employee conduct like this not bring negativity to the city and mayor’s office when coupled with the 2X DUI solicitor? Where does RESPECT start?
I'm sorry but i have to respond to this.....have any of you folks ever heard of the 1st Amendment? Are we not in the United States of America? Unless the so called city employee made comments on city time how can he be reprimanded? Seriously folks the city has so many bigger issues other than ATV's and name calling. My opinion sell the property and put section 8 row houses there and lets see what they would of opted for at that point!
Wow

Pittsburgh, PA

#126 Feb 17, 2013
Over the Legal Line wrote:
<quoted text>
It is the things that are said that may cross over the legal line, not the fact that something was posted. In other words, the content is actionable in my opinion.
This could become a dicey issue for the author, mayor, and his boss the fire chief. The next move is up to those targeted by his Facebook posting.
A former city employee resigned over something not too different. The precedent has been set, perhaps. This is not a good situation for some.
Again another insider....the so called employee made the remarks on city time get your facts straight prior to commenting you know what they say about assuming......opps this may be grounds for legal action.....give me a break and grow some thicker skin!!!
Simple Issue

AOL

#127 Feb 17, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>I'm sorry but i have to respond to this.....have any of you folks ever heard of the 1st Amendment? Are we not in the United States of America? Unless the so called city employee made comments on city time how can he be reprimanded? Seriously folks the city has so many bigger issues other than ATV's and name calling. My opinion sell the property and put section 8 row houses there and lets see what they would of opted for at that point!
Why not let things like they were for 60 years and then there is no ATV issue? The previous owner was not an ATV pusher. The new owner of the land changed the tranquility of the neighborhood, not the Lady Lawyer and her many supporters. No complaints about the land when the ATV were not destroying or using it.
Wow

Pittsburgh, PA

#128 Feb 17, 2013
Simple Issue wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not let things like they were for 60 years and then there is no ATV issue? The previous owner was not an ATV pusher. The new owner of the land changed the tranquility of the neighborhood, not the Lady Lawyer and her many supporters. No complaints about the land when the ATV were not destroying or using it.
not my issue as far as the atv's go was referring to freedonm of speech my friend....
Justice 4 All

Elizabeth, PA

#129 Feb 17, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>not my issue as far as the atv's go was referring to freedonm of speech my friend....
Freedom of speech stops at slander and threats last time I understood the law.
Wow

Pittsburgh, PA

#130 Feb 17, 2013
Justice 4 All wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom of speech stops at slander and threats last time I understood the law.
so me referring to you as stupid is slander? or calling someone a bit#h is slander....its a opinion which each and everyone of us are entitled to.....The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation....prove your not stupid or prove someone isnt a bit*h dont involve yourself in the public eye if you cant take criticism
Troublemaker

Pittsburgh, PA

#131 Feb 17, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>Again another insider....the so called employee made the remarks on city time get your facts straight prior to commenting you know what they say about assuming......opps this may be grounds for legal action.....give me a break and grow some thicker skin!!!
Sooo... Jimmy crying and complaining -- regardless of where he said or wrote it -- indicates a thick skin? A neighbor exercised her First Amendment rights (an opinion and a right to redress) and happened to find like-minded neighbors who agreed.

HE questionably pursued something that more people disagreed with, and they went through the proper system.

The fact that people who agree with Jimmy are howling here long after the meeting suggests to me the real thin skins.

My opinion. I'm waiting to be pillaged for it.
Who is Really Stupid

Elizabeth, PA

#132 Feb 17, 2013
Wow wrote:
<quoted text>so me referring to you as stupid is slander? or calling someone a bit#h is slander....its a opinion which each and everyone of us are entitled to.....The action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation....prove your not stupid or prove someone isnt a bit*h dont involve yourself in the public eye if you cant take criticism
The Lady Lawyer has a law degree. She passed the bar and practiced her profession for years.

Most of the city officials are accomplished college graduates - does that make them stupid? What city official, if any, did not achieve a successful post secondary education? Hey! One was even a teacher for years and so was our senator.

Now tell me who is stupid – do you have a law degree?
She isnt stupid

Morgantown, WV

#133 Feb 17, 2013
...she is just a terrible neighbor and person.

She is the reason our society IS the way it IS.

There is a difference between using the legal systme properly to address a legitimate threat to someone's safety or other problem and using the system to get one's way rather than deal directly with your neighbors.

Thank GOD I do not live across the street from this woman....she must be UNBEARABLE to deal with....probably looking for every little thing to complain about.

By definition, she is very much what she has been called, allegedly, on FB.

And, mind you, this has nothing to do with not wanting ATV noise around her. Its about being decent and doing the right thing and working things out.
No harm no foul

Mckeesport, PA

#134 Feb 17, 2013
Who is Really Stupid wrote:
<quoted text>
The Lady Lawyer has a law degree. She passed the bar and practiced her profession for years.
Most of the city officials are accomplished college graduates - does that make them stupid? What city official, if any, did not achieve a successful post secondary education? Hey! One was even a teacher for years and so was our senator.
Now tell me who is stupid – do you have a law degree?
I think that "Wow's" comments weren't directed at anyone in particular and that you missed it's intent.
That is, with regard to libel / slander, the courts first make a distinction between damaging statements presented as fact (XXX has AIDS) as opposed to damaging statements that are opinion (XXX is stupid) based.
The "prove stupid" reply was just that.......how do you prove an opinion? What real actionable damage has occurred?
Troublemaker

Pittsburgh, PA

#135 Feb 17, 2013
She isnt stupid wrote:
...she is just a terrible neighbor and person.
She is the reason our society IS the way it IS.
There is a difference between using the legal systme properly to address a legitimate threat to someone's safety or other problem and using the system to get one's way rather than deal directly with your neighbors.
Thank GOD I do not live across the street from this woman....she must be UNBEARABLE to deal with....probably looking for every little thing to complain about.
By definition, she is very much what she has been called, allegedly, on FB.
And, mind you, this has nothing to do with not wanting ATV noise around her. Its about being decent and doing the right thing and working things out.
LOL. You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Somebody needs a time out.

'She is just a terrible neighbor and person'- how the hell do you know, since you do not live nearby?

You ATV supporters are just unhappy because the legal system worked against you.
It is the Noise Stupid

Elizabeth, PA

#136 Feb 17, 2013
She isnt stupid wrote:
...
And, mind you, this has nothing to do with not wanting ATV noise around her. Its about being decent and doing the right thing and working things out.
Wrong -- not wanting noise around her home or the 200 persons’ homes who signed the petition is everything to do about it. It is the noise stupid. That is why my parents signed the petition.

Not counting the many others who would have signed but fear retaliation from the machine puppets and his fireman friends.


The right thing to do is to respect your neighbors’ right to object to unnecessary noise and the disruption of tranquility enjoyed for many years. I think the Lady Lawyer lived there longer that the instigator.

The Lady Lawyer is heroic in her persistence and legal skills for the betterment of homeowners who just want to enjoy their castles.

If I lived in the noise zone, I would purchase an old diesel truck and idle it outside of the instigator’s home all night long. He and his wife and family might not enjoy the constant drone and diesel exhaust fumes.
Reasonable Compromise

Elizabeth, PA

#137 Feb 18, 2013
She isnt stupid wrote:
...she is just a terrible neighbor and person.
She is the reason our society IS the way it IS.
There is a difference between using the legal systme properly to address a legitimate threat to someone's safety or other problem and using the system to get one's way rather than deal directly with your neighbors.
Thank GOD I do not live across the street from this woman....she must be UNBEARABLE to deal with....probably looking for every little thing to complain about.
By definition, she is very much what she has been called, allegedly, on FB.
And, mind you, this has nothing to do with not wanting ATV noise around her. Its about being decent and doing the right thing and working things out.
I love your solution or "work out" and opinions. The old adage states that ONE SHOULD FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE!

So why not the have the old codgers fight NOISE AND POLLUTION WITH NOISE AND POLLUTION from a poorly tuned diesel truck idling all night in front of the instigator's castle?

I do not think this is violation of any ordinance and the vehicle is licensed to operate on the street like the annoying legal dirt bikes operating in front of the Lady Lawyers home.

Moreover, the police and mayor will not enforce any ordinances anyway. The mayor did not even sighn the ATV Ban ordinace which means he sides with the fireman to ensure the fire department vote and threw part of 12th ward voters under the bus.

Remember the machine endorsed Barry, JB's daughter, and Walsh for the next election. The machine did not endorse Tedesco, Segina, Walker-Montgomery, or Malinchak who are in favor of the ATV Ban.

The means MDC Chairman Brewster is opposed to the ban. Just remember this when voting in the primary and fall elections.

I consider the above a fair and equitable compromise of noise vs. noise. Use your 12th voting power to send MDC Chairman Brewster and his endorsed candidates a lesson. Refuse to sign their petitions if they have the nerve to circulate them in the 12th ward.
U R A Bitter Pill

Mckeesport, PA

#138 Feb 18, 2013
Reasonable Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
The mayor did not even sighn the ATV Ban ordinace which means he sides with the fireman to ensure the fire department vote and threw part of 12th ward voters under the bus.
Remember the machine endorsed Barry, JB's daughter, and Walsh for the next election. The machine did not endorse Tedesco, Segina, Walker-Montgomery, or Malinchak who are in favor of the ATV Ban.
The means MDC Chairman Brewster is opposed to the ban. Just remember this when voting in the primary and fall elections.
LOL. Tedesco, Segina and Walker-Montgomery have a long history of "unpredictability" that predates the ATV ban and makes JB and Mayor Mike squirm.

To state in this forum or anywhere else that JB and / or the MDC have placed other horses in the race because of the recent ATV issue shows how little you know about what / how things happen in this town. Too bad you can't look beyond your 4 walls and grasp the big picture.

As for the mayor not signing that ATV ban, I hear tell he's been know to take a spin on ATV's within city limits, too.

Just sayin

Pittsburgh, PA

#139 Feb 19, 2013
No harm no foul wrote:
<quoted text>I think that "Wow's" comments weren't directed at anyone in particular and that you missed it's intent.
That is, with regard to libel / slander, the courts first make a distinction between damaging statements presented as fact (XXX has AIDS) as opposed to damaging statements that are opinion (XXX is stupid) based.
The "prove stupid" reply was just that.......how do you prove an opinion? What real actionable damage has occurred?
Well, that argument would hold to the referenced FB comments as well then.....from what I understand, the lawyer lady was called a "bitch"........accor ding to Webster's dictionary, that is "a female dog" or slang for someone's negative opinion of a woman. Seeing as lawyer lady is of the homo sapien category, that leaves the latter....and that is pure opinion.
A legal website explains libel and slander thusly:
legal websitel wrote:
<quoted text>
Slander involves the oral "publication" of a defamatory remark that is heard by another, which injures the subject's reputation or character. Slander can occur through the use of a hand gesture or verbal communication that is not recorded. Libel, on the other hand, is the written "publication" of a defamatory remark that has the tendency to injure another's reputation or character. Libel also includes a publication on radio, audio or video. Even though this would be considered oral, or verbal, communication to someone it is actually considered to be libel because it is published in a transfixed form.
So, while calling someone "stupid" online might not be an enforceable example of libel since its opinion, some others here could certainly be held accountable for their comments.
"lawyer lady supporters" have accused a certain property owner of all sorts of illegal things and accusing him and other city officials of a "conspiracy" because he is a city employee who, by nature of his job , knows people within the city government..... in turn, that could cause trouble for that employee and put his employment at risk. THAT sounds like libel to me.
Nanner nanner boo boo

Pittsburgh, PA

#140 Feb 19, 2013
Troublemaker wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. You sound like a child throwing a tantrum. Somebody needs a time out.
'She is just a terrible neighbor and person'- how the hell do you know, since you do not live nearby?
You ATV supporters are just unhappy because the legal system worked against you.
Tantrum? From what I understand the lawyer lady first ran to council crying about "dirt bike induced noise" but was in fact responding not to dirt bikes making noise but chain saws that were being used to cut dead trees etc.

That's a tantrum.

Unhappy because the legal system worked against "us" ? No, just unhappy that a few people were able to bastardize and bully the "legal system" to their favor, taking a neighbor-neghbor issue and making it a city wide issue.

Those people are the prime example of what is wrong with society today.

You can bet your arse that if the council had voted the ban out the lawyer lady and her pals would have been appealing it to higher courts and screaming about the vote being "fixed"....much as some of them are (anonymously) already crying "foul" saying that the mayor hasn't signed the ordinance yet.

Talk about a bunch of crybabies.
Real skill

Pittsburgh, PA

#141 Feb 19, 2013
It is the Noise Stupid wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong -- not wanting noise around her home or the 200 persons’ homes who signed the petition is everything to do about it. It is the noise stupid. That is why my parents signed the petition.
Not counting the many others who would have signed but fear retaliation from the machine puppets and his fireman friends.
The right thing to do is to respect your neighbors’ right to object to unnecessary noise and the disruption of tranquility enjoyed for many years. I think the Lady Lawyer lived there longer that the instigator.
The Lady Lawyer is heroic in her persistence and legal skills for the betterment of homeowners who just want to enjoy their castles.
If I lived in the noise zone, I would purchase an old diesel truck and idle it outside of the instigator’s home all night long. He and his wife and family might not enjoy the constant drone and diesel exhaust fumes.
Again, with the name calling -- calling people names when they disagree with you. Is that what Mommy and Daddy taught you? Well, then, no surprise that they also signed the petition.

"The right thing to do is to respect your neighbors’ right to object to unnecessary noise".........the term "unnecessary" is very subjective.

Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself if YOU ever make ANY sort of noise that someone could consider "unnecessary".

Got screaming kids? How about a dog? Ever play the radio outside? All of those things could be considered "unnecessary". Were you hauled into court over the noise YOU made?

Your parents and those who signed that petition are simply people who want things THEIR way and have NO tolerance for anything that THEY do not feel is "necessary".

Maybe they would find things quieter in a retirement community rather than a neighborhood where there are kids playing and people enjoying their property? Because in any neighborhood there will be noise now and then. And if thing are so stacked against them and miserable in the city of McKeesport due to "the machine", why do they stay?

If your parents want absolute silence they need to buy a few thousand acres of land out in the sticks and build smack dab in the middle of it.

Of course, then they would be complaining about the smell of cow maure and tractor diesel (common in farm country) and about too many damn crickets making noise at night.

"The Lady Lawyer is heroic in her persistence and legal skills"

That's laughable. She hired an external attorney to speak for her at the first meeting just to make the showy point of "I can hire an attorney and make your life miserable". Then all she did was complain at every meeting after that (no attorney in tow) up until the council voted to shut her up for a while. How much skill does THAT take? If anything, her actions show how flawed the system really is....when a cranky , uptight retiree can complain until she gets her way.

Real skill would have been if she had worked out an agreement with her "noisy" neighbor, like adults. Instead she stooped to typical ambulance chaser lawyer tactics. What she did may have been legal but it shows the type of person she really is.

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