ATV BAN lady again....
Another McKeesporter

Elizabeth, PA

#102 Feb 11, 2013
This is not about Haler Heights or ATV lady. Most ATV riders are responsible individuals who respect and try to preserve their neighborhoods and the environment, and go into the countryside to ride. This is a City-wide problem in a City that is trying to improve itself; not take a step backward.

Were you at the Council meeting to hear Robert McGregor testify about the damage riders are doing on or near the bike trail, a trail that is a true asset to our communtiy. Too bad the Daily News didn't print any of his comments.

And, did you look at the petition. It was signed by almost all the residents whose property borders the Young lot and the Fawcett lot in Haler Heights, but also by other residents of the city. And, I understand there were many residents who did not think ATV/dirt bikes belong in McKeesport, but didn't sign the petition because they or their relatives worked for the city in some capacity.

And, no one seems to want to hear it, but THE LOT THE YOUNGS WANT TO RIDE ON IS 1.85 acres (Allegheny County website, Parcel No. 463-L-410);not 4 or 5 acres as reported in the Daily News.

Kids in Haler Heights and elsewhere in the city play baseball on neighbors' lots, shoot hoops, run, and ride regular bikes. They could do all of that on the Youngs' lots and the other lots where they ride, and I bet ATV lady and all the folks who signed the petition or wanted to sign it would not complain.
McFly

United States

#103 Feb 11, 2013
It is the White Trash and the Red Necks that ride their ATVs in a neighborhood. The racially inferior do not have money for an ATV... so why fight amongst yourselves? They are supposed to be doing that!!
ATV Ban Colatteral Damage

Elizabeth, PA

#104 Feb 11, 2013
Get real wrote:
<quoted text>

The new ban just gives the lawyer lady another notch in her belt in manipulating local law to her favor.
Its shameful.
And its a slippery slope. IT opens the door for your neighbors to take what they dont like about YOUR activity to council to complain.......a couple hundred questionable signatures later and they will have their way.
Explain the legal difference between a questionable and unquestionable signature?

If your try to infringe upon residents' right to domestic tranquility then the neighbors have a right to petition council for a remedy. They did such and followed the local law to achieve their goal.

How about one resident that may have a medical problem with the dust during a dry summer season? Her husband and children have no right to protect mom’s health?

Rumor has it that the mayor did not sign off on the ordinance and did not veto it. Rumor has it that his honor has been seen riding an ATV in his neighborhood. I do not believe this ATV riding rumor.
Can I get an AMEN

Pittsburgh, PA

#105 Feb 12, 2013
Eddie wrote:
How can we get a resolution passed in this city to ban all of the following?:
Welfare recipients
Welfare trash with their blue tooths
Welfare trash with their Access Cards
Welfare trash driving Escalades & Navigators
Welfare trash sleeping all day and banging all night
Welfare trash destroying all properties in this city
Welfare trash parking in handicapped places at the local grocery stores
These are the PIGS and problems that we need to be concerned with. These are the PIGS that we need to pass ordinances/resolutions for, in attempting to keep them under control.
* Take these PIGS fishing in the Mon baby, as they are nothing but trash. Use them as sinkers.
This is what I worry about- not an atv.These PIGS cruising in their Escalades/Navigators that I am paying for, are driving around cranking higher decibels than an atv. Ban the PIGS
Eddie
Well said.
Bet U R Lawyer Lady

Pittsburgh, PA

#106 Feb 12, 2013
Another McKeesporter wrote:
Were you at the Council meeting to hear Robert McGregor testify about the damage riders are doing on or near the bike trail.
Once again, you are mixing issues, much like lawyer lady did.
The bike trail is privately owned property (with the public being allowed to use it for certain reasons).
There is ALREADY law on the books forbidding ATVs and dirt bikes on private property without the owner's consent. The trail is posted that way as well. Those people are breaking the law.
Why have they not ALREADY been arrested and had their bikes confiscated?
You think another law is going to make a difference for that?
LOL YOU ARE DREAMING.
The people riding on that trail are (likely) those who live nearby (many properties abut that trail)......
Here is a way to look at THAT issue.....
The people who bought homes along that trail got used to having the old railway beds as a way to ride down to the river, etc on their ATVs. Then, the group that built the trails "acquired" the rail beds for trail use and posted them as forbidding ATVs/dirt bikes. That ticked off the property owners. ANd they continue to ride.
Very similar situation to the lawyer lady's......she and her neighbors got used to having a tax free woods in their back yard....then someone buys the property and wants to use it....and now she is ticked off. Except in THIS case, she can complain against one citizen (MR Young) versus a consortium (the trail).
Another McKeesporter wrote:
the petition...was signed by almost all the residents whose property borders the Young lot and the Fawcett lot in Haler Heights, but also by other residents of the city.
ALMOST all of the property owners around the tract? HMMMM!

Also, the signatures were acquired under the pretense that the "problem" in Haler Heights was the same as the illegal riding problem elsewhere....she would go to a door and ask "Are you against illegal ATV riding in the city of Mckeesport? " (This comes from someone who was approached)......she didnt ask "Do you agree that I should be able to preventg my neighbor from using ATVs on his private property". Had she done that, the ONLY signatures she would have gotten would have been from those directly surrounding the property, as they have a vested interst.
Lawyer lady combined the issues to make it appear like she gave a damn about the city when really it is her backyard she is only concerned about. Think lawyer lady with her $$$ cares about what goes on in Christy Park or down by the river? LOL Get real. If she did she would be vocal about other major issues in the city. Where has she been on other issues?
LOL Its laughable.
Do ATVs/dirt bikes belong on the city streets or illegaly riding on someone else's property ? Of course not. But again, THERE IS ALREADY LAW ON THE BOOKS TO COVER THAT.
This new ban was all about lawyer lady. She conned people into signing under the pretense of it being a big huge city wide problem to get her way.
Another McKeesporter wrote:
And, no one seems to want to hear it, but THE LOT THE YOUNGS WANT TO RIDE ON IS 1.85 acres (Allegheny County website, Parcel No. 463-L-410);not 4 or 5 acres as reported in the Daily News.
Not according to the allegheny county real estate site. And even if you are correct, so what? Do you ever make noise in your yard? And I would bet your yard isnt 2 acres, isolated from houses in the summer by heavy trees and brush.....
Another McKeesporter wrote:
Kids in Haler Heights and elsewhere in the city play baseball on neighbors' lots, shoot hoops, run, and ride regular bikes. They could do all of that on the Youngs' lots and the other lots where they ride, and I bet ATV lady and all the folks who signed the petition or wanted to sign it would not complain.
LOL I would bet you that if that site were developed by the Youngs into a basketball court lawyer lady would be in council chambers again pushing to ban basketball hoops in the city.
John Q

United States

#107 Feb 12, 2013
Good luck with that one... LOL... How do you stop a gang r**e in The Port????.... Throw them a Basketball!!!
Lady and the Tramp

Elizabeth, PA

#108 Feb 13, 2013
Troublemaker wrote:
<quoted text>
The 4th Ward kids are using off-road vehicles on city streets and private property they do not own. Despite being vacant land, it's owned by somebody.
If I call the police and if they are caught, they will only be cited for using off-road vehicles on city streets. Good luck getting cited for trespassing. Hopefully, now it will be different.
Of course she was pissed off, that was her impetus for wanting an ordinance. And she did a favor for those of us who live elsewhere in the city who: Do Not Want Off-Road Vehicles on City Streets and Private Property. Period. Can't ride a horse, drive a golf cart, a motorized two-wheel scooter, or a motorized two- or three-wheel bike on city streets either. Or the sidewalks for that matter.
Maybe she can do something about the little s.o.b. with the dirt bike who came along and showed the ATV kids how it was done.
The Lady and the Tramp - it is clear who the LADY is and who the TRAMP is! The Lady did nothing until some one decided to infringe on her right to domestic tranquility that she enjoyed for years in HH.

It is commonly believed and known that if you screw with the bull you will get the horns! QED
It is the Noise Stupid

Elizabeth, PA

#109 Feb 13, 2013
Bet U R Lawyer Lady wrote:
<quoted text>
I would bet you that if that site were developed by the Youngs into a basketball court lawyer lady would be in council chambers again pushing to ban basketball hoops in the city.
The issue is the noise stupid -- the annoying noise!

Tennis courts - OK
Basketball court -- OK
Lawn bowling - OK
Nudist colony - OK
Volley ball court - OK
Swimming pool - ok
Paint Ball Park - OK
Horseshoes -- OK
Ball fields --- OK
Manually powered bikes -- OK
Slide riding -- OK
Sking --- OK
Tobbogen -- OK

Jet Airport vertical take off/land -- No
Helicopter port -- No
ATV --- No
Snowmobile -- No
Dirt Bikes -- No
Stock Car racing -- No
Fireworks --- No
Bull indeed

Pittsburgh, PA

#110 Feb 14, 2013
Lady and the Tramp wrote:
<quoted text>
The Lady and the Tramp - it is clear who the LADY is and who the TRAMP is! The Lady did nothing until some one decided to infringe on her right to domestic tranquility that she enjoyed for years in HH.
It is commonly believed and known that if you screw with the bull you will get the horns! QED
"domestic tranquility"....LOL

Do you actually even live in HH? If you did, you would know that there is no such thing.

Well, I guess it comes down to seeing if lawyer lady will have the balls to call the police every time she sees an ATV.

My guess is she won't. She will rely on others to do it, and she will find that all those signatures she coerced do not mean diddly squat.
It is NOTthe noise stupid

Pittsburgh, PA

#111 Feb 14, 2013
It is the Noise Stupid wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue is the noise stupid -- the annoying noise!
Tennis courts - OK
Basketball court -- OK
Lawn bowling - OK
Nudist colony - OK
Volley ball court - OK
Swimming pool - ok
Paint Ball Park - OK
Horseshoes -- OK
Ball fields --- OK
Manually powered bikes -- OK
Slide riding -- OK
Sking --- OK
Tobbogen -- OK
Jet Airport vertical take off/land -- No
Helicopter port -- No
ATV --- No
Snowmobile -- No
Dirt Bikes -- No
Stock Car racing -- No
Fireworks --- No
If you truly believe that those are appropriate comparisons, you are as dim-witted as those council members who pushed the ordinance through without even considering all of the picture. Or maybe you are one of them.

And who is deciding that those "OK" items are ok? You?

No......the COMMUNITY should decide.

In this casem the COMMUNITY didnt decide, a LAWYER decided. The whole community was NEVER asked...only certain people and even many of those bought a misrepresented product.

We have enough half-wits making rules around here without your $.01.(reduced from a normal person's $.02 for obvious reasons)

'Nuf said.
It is the Noise Stupid

Elizabeth, PA

#112 Feb 14, 2013
It is NOTthe noise stupid wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole community was NEVER asked...only certain people and even many of those bought a misrepresented product.
You and everyone else were welcome to participate in the 6:30 public hearing on the ATV Ban ordinance on Tuesday Feb 5. It was publically advertised by DN but the esteemed lady reporter got the date wrong.

I think this date error was on purpose to endear herself to the administration that did not want an ATV ban.
I support lady lawyer

Mckeesport, PA

#113 Feb 14, 2013
It is NOTthe noise stupid wrote:
<quoted text>
If you truly believe that those are appropriate comparisons, you are as dim-witted as those council members who pushed the ordinance through without even considering all of the picture. Or maybe you are one of them.
And who is deciding that those "OK" items are ok? You?
No......the COMMUNITY should decide.
In this casem the COMMUNITY didnt decide, a LAWYER decided. The whole community was NEVER asked...only certain people and even many of those bought a misrepresented product.
We have enough half-wits making rules around here without your $.01.(reduced from a normal person's $.02 for obvious reasons)
'Nuf said.
The community DID weigh in on this issue. Council had ample time to weigh in on the sentiment of the community AND the legal ramifications and they made a solid ruling. Just because it's contrary to your opinion doesn't make it wrong. It just makes you a poor loser.

Since this issue came up last fall, it's been discussed at monthly council work sessions, calls (both for and against) were made to city hall, contact (both for and against) was made with members of council, petitions were circulated and remitted.

Council was wise to listen to the adult registered voters who said "no" to the excessive noise and environmental damage caused by ATV's in our community.
Section 8

Mckeesport, PA

#114 Feb 14, 2013
From what I hear, in response to backlash from everyone in the promise land. They will be building section 8 apartments on the land. Should've let them ride. Now instead of dirt bikes you'll be hearing gun shots.
I wasnt represented

Pittsburgh, PA

#115 Feb 15, 2013
I support lady lawyer wrote:
<quoted text>The community DID weigh in on this issue. Council had ample time to weigh in on the sentiment of the community AND the legal ramifications and they made a solid ruling. Just because it's contrary to your opinion doesn't make it wrong. It just makes you a poor loser.
Since this issue came up last fall, it's been discussed at monthly council work sessions, calls (both for and against) were made to city hall, contact (both for and against) was made with members of council, petitions were circulated and remitted.
Council was wise to listen to the adult registered voters who said "no" to the excessive noise and environmental damage caused by ATV's in our community.
Not ONE person at either meeting (the work session or the main meeting) was from anywhere but Haler Heights as far as the ATV issue.

That is because no one besides a few HH residents even knew it was going on. I live in the Grandview area and didnt hear about this til AFTER the fact and just barely made it to the final meetings.

I would hardly call that fairly representing the community. A few old codgers from HH for the ban and a few people from HH against it.

They SHOULD have tabled it so that the public could have been better informed and consulted. Stacked petitions do not count. Bu why would they? Fawn pushed to rush a verdict NOW. Because ATV riders are such a threat to society. LOL

"Environmental damage" ?? LOL How often in nature do you see short-cut grass lawns and pruned bushes and chemically-killed weeds? Please. Your front yards in HH, many of which are cultivated by hired crews using huge gas guzzling equipment, are more damaging to the environment than a few trails in the woods (woods which are 100% natural, by the way).

Its easy to say someone is a poor loser when you are the one who bullied their way to "victory". You are as much part of the problem of preferential treatment and connections as anyone. You just bullied your way.

Anyways, good luck getting your new law enforced. LOL Like others have said here, the cops cant even keep people from shooting up the place.
Young Codger from HH

Elizabeth, PA

#116 Feb 15, 2013
I wasnt represented wrote:
<quoted text>
Not ONE person at either meeting (the work session or the main meeting) was from anywhere but Haler Heights as far as the ATV issue.
That is because no one besides a few HH residents even knew it was going on. I live in the Grandview area and didnt hear about this til AFTER the fact and just barely made it to the final meetings.
I would hardly call that fairly representing the community. A few old codgers from HH for the ban and a few people from HH against it.
It was in the newspaper more than once. A public hearing was legally announced in the media.

Even the owner of the proposed ATVNoisedome posted it on face book and vulgarly disparaged “we old codgers” and quiet loving citizens. He should be disciplined for this by his boss Mayor Cherepko or the “old codgers” may file a complaint against the mayor and author of the face book posting with the proper federal authorities. He is your employee Mayor Cherepko and you are the symbol for the RESPECT campaign. Now do some RESPECT enforcement.

The old codgers did you a favor by trying to keep your neighborhood quiet and safe. You are correct; there will be no enforcement because the some of the stand-down council persons are starting to waffle. Enforcement will be only considered or applied after some youngster is injured, God forbid, or federal attention results on the illegal face book posting.
I support lady lawyer

Mckeesport, PA

#117 Feb 15, 2013
I wasnt represented wrote:
<quoted text>
Not ONE person at either meeting (the work session or the main meeting) was from anywhere but Haler Heights as far as the ATV issue.
That is because no one besides a few HH residents even knew it was going on. I live in the Grandview area and didnt hear about this til AFTER the fact and just barely made it to the final meetings.
I would hardly call that fairly representing the community. A few old codgers from HH for the ban and a few people from HH against it.
They SHOULD have tabled it so that the public could have been better informed and consulted. Stacked petitions do not count. Bu why would they? Fawn pushed to rush a verdict NOW. Because ATV riders are such a threat to society. LOL
"Environmental damage" ?? LOL How often in nature do you see short-cut grass lawns and pruned bushes and chemically-killed weeds? Please. Your front yards in HH, many of which are cultivated by hired crews using huge gas guzzling equipment, are more damaging to the environment than a few trails in the woods (woods which are 100% natural, by the way).
Its easy to say someone is a poor loser when you are the one who bullied their way to "victory". You are as much part of the problem of preferential treatment and connections as anyone. You just bullied your way.
Anyways, good luck getting your new law enforced. LOL Like others have said here, the cops cant even keep people from shooting up the place.
Then you have no one to blame but yourself. This issue began last fall.

The Snooze, Tribune Review and Post Gazette all covered it.

It's been recorded in it's entirety every month and available for all to read in the on-line City Council meeting minutes. It's been posted on Tube City Almanac. It's been argued for months on Topix.

You had an opportunity to voice your opinion in a way that could have affected results.

Now you're just whining on Topix day in and day out. It's trifling.

I agree with you about the use of lawn chemicals, but your arguments and comparisons of noise and pollution levels of lawn equipment and ATV's is laughable. Start your own damn petition banning lawn and landscaping in the city and see how far that goes. LOL.

There is a reason that ATV's are banned from PA state game lands and no new trails are desired/planned in PA state forests.

Documented and supporting evidence is available on-line regarding environmental damage / ATV usage. Google it.
I wasnt represented

Pittsburgh, PA

#118 Feb 15, 2013
....who said anything about lawn equipment and their noise levels? Wasnt me. I just mentioned the gas use.

But now that you mention it, yeah, that stuff does make a crapload of racket.

Do you plan on pursuing an ordinance for that stuff?

FYI, Council minutes are 60 days behind most of the time.

I caught the news stories in the papers that reported what went on at the meetings after the fact.

Sorry that I am not retired and reading papers all day to apparently catch the stories YOU are referring to.

Some of us work for a living and to support the retirees so they can have time to go out and stir up trouble.

I found out about this issue only after seeing some blurbs online about Lawyer Lady causing trouble in Haler Heights and dividing neighbors. And I found out about council voting on the ordinance. I went to the "public" hearing the day before and hung outside the door way to get a big picture.....Please, it was a sham.

"documented and supporting evidence" is easily stacked one way or the other. Some tree hugger groups say that automobile use should be banned due to the carbon footprints.

Do you plan on selling your car or giving up traveling by Access since you are so worried about the environment? LOL

By the way, there are several PA state and federal forests that have trail systems. We just dont have any closer than a couple hours from our end of the state. SO your argument about "state game lands" is moot.....they ban ATVs THERE because it scares the game, and that ticks off the hunters using the game lands.

Horses are also banned in the forests except for certain trails due to their extensive damage.

So what?

You need to google THAT and get your facts straight Lawyer Lady.

In the end you can call my opinion or those of others "whining" (talk about being a poor sport)....but it wont matter.

Lawyer lady, ya got your ordinance. Now lets see if you have enough chutzpa to go after having it enforced.

Rumour has it that someone was riding the other day on Young's property. Yet no police showed up.

Did you call?

Time to put your money where your mouth is. Bullying a council into doing the ordinance has gotten you this far. Lets see if you have the audacity to bother police with such tripe.
Lady Lawyer Support Team

Elizabeth, PA

#119 Feb 15, 2013
I wasnt represented wrote:
....Rumour has it that someone was riding the other day on Young's property. Yet no police showed up.
Did you call?
Time to put your money where your mouth is. Bullying a council into doing the ordinance has gotten you this far. Lets see if you have the audacity to bother police with such tripe.
You are misdirected or misinformed to think you can out fox or chide the Lady Lawyer and her many supporters.

We all know that the Mayor Cherepko did not sign the ordinance. We all know that Mayor Cherepko thinks he is devious and cunning. We all know that the mayor will not encourage MPD getting to the ATV Noise Dome until after the culprits leave the premises or will not enforce the ordinance because it is NEBULOUS?

The Lady Lawyer will prepare for these disrespectful and foolish acts by contacting the state police and complaining that the MPD controlled by a mayor, who refused to sign an ordinance, is abusing his discretion and authority. If that does not work, some 11:00 pm TV news coverage will do it or well-known Mr. Rich Lord, PG Investigating Reporter. The last action is to seek the right legal remendy.

But the mayor and fire chief should be more concerned about how to handle an employee who was vulgar and disrespectful to some tax paying citizen on Face Book. This could be a very actionable item. Stay tuned on this one. Please do not tell the Lady Lawyer and her supporters about this serious and powerful option. How does employee conduct like this not bring negativity to the city and mayor’s office when coupled with the 2X DUI solicitor? Where does RESPECT start?
Collins Street Ponderer

United States

#120 Feb 15, 2013
We be doin things the law way in McK, beyotches....Saavy?
Sue Happy

Morgantown, WV

#121 Feb 16, 2013
Lady Lawyer Support Team wrote:
<quoted text>

But the mayor and fire chief should be more concerned about how to handle an employee who was vulgar and disrespectful to some tax paying citizen on Face Book. This could be a very actionable item.
Doubtful.

It is no different than this cesspool called topix.

keep in mind that many many nasty things were said here, directed at Mr. Young. Except THOSE comments were made under the anonymity of the site whereas facebook, you know who is saying things...its public...and we all have our right to opinions about people.

Keep in mind that "anonymity" only goes so far.

At least the employee you talk about has the balls to say things about people under his real name.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

McKeesport Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Marshalls Century 3 Equity Scandal 18 min Diddy Dog 5
I can't believe it!!!!! 21 min Diddy Dog 16
Does Alexandroff Speak 24 min WTAE Camera Coward 15
Pig man 24 min Diddy Dog 6
Prez Pig Man 26 min Diddy Dog 9
crony capitalism 5 hr Crumbs Pelosi 10
Scottie’s Regime 5 hr Crumbs Pelosi 16

McKeesport Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

McKeesport Mortgages