ATV BAN lady again....
Posted in the McKeesport Forum
#1 Jan 31, 2013
If you have any feelings on this, you should make yourself heard at the next council meeting.
SHe has basically pursues this (she is an ex-attorney...surprise) and has now badgered council to the point where it has to do something. And you can bet that she wont let this rest until she gets her way.
Don't let the noisy, cranky people make changes without your voice being heard!
#3 Jan 31, 2013
Sorry "Buddy", she's right, this is a city. Just because Jimmie is on the inside and he buys property, doesn't mean he gets to do what he wants on it. Had he gone through proper legal channels, this could've been headed off. But he, like the rest of city hall, thinks they're above the law.
There's a covenant already in place in Haler Heights. She's just making sure it's obeyed. If she wasn't an attorney, council would have run over HER like a steamroller.
#4 Jan 31, 2013
You miss the point.
One lady has stirred up a mess for the ENTIRE CITY because she is pissed that she is losing her wonderful view and has to hear sounds she doesn't like in HERE part of the world and rather than do what NEIGHBORS do (work it out) she went straight to the law. TYPICAL SCUMMY LAWYER TACTIC!
In the path of that, she is looking to go after EVERYONE and EVERYONE "must pay".
Yes, this IS a city. And the city has different noises you have to deal with. Sounds like lawnmowers and weedwhackers and leaf blowers all day on weekends and in the evening.....yappy dogs ALL the time.....marching bands for a few hours in the evenings......freight trains barreling thru the valley at 2am.......we ALL make a sacrifice by living in a suburb of a city. That sacrifice is knowing that you will NOT have "quiet country living".
The property in question is not this lady's private sanctuary....she sat on her deck and looked at it for how many years and never once thought to BUY it so she could SECURE that view and "peace and quiet" ? She waited til someone else bought it and wants to use it and THEN makes a stink.
She would be complaining no matter WHAT was going on there, you can bet your butt on that one.
The covenant you speak of may be there, but it was built back in the 50s when Haler Heights was new. And I would bet that more people than not know NOTHING about this covenant. It is very outdated, all you have to do is read it to know that.
That said, I have read the covenant and it says something to the effect of "extraneous noise and irritation" is prohibited. That was aimed at preventing businesses from opening up in the area. It also forbids farm animals. Yet it says nothing about the recreational use of dirt bikes or ATVs.
SO, going by the covenant, the ruckus of lawn mowers and yard equipment all the time can very easily fall into the category of extraneous noise and irritation".
Careful what horse you hitch your wagon to. You might just get what you think you want and then be disappointed in what you get.
#5 Jan 31, 2013
Do you have any proof that she complained when nothing unusal was going on that property for years?
You are misinformed. The zoning ordiance keeps businesses out of Haler Heights and other residential areas. You failed Civics 101! Your aim is terrible.
#6 Jan 31, 2013
The Mayor who does not want to offend the fireman and lose votes should have her removed from the council meeting by the MPD if she attempts to speak out and for forging about two hundred signatures on a petition. One lady should not be permitted to forge over two hundred signatures and not be arrested. You said one lady stirred up this mess and those who signed the petition do not count.
I am high offended and livid when you suggest "scummy lawyer tactics." She is a respectable and skilled retired lawyer who not a scofflaw. Now contrast the lady lawyer to our esteemed city solicitor who I assume is your friend.
One administrative suspension
27 docket entries on the Prothronotorys web site
One vehicle crashed into 716 Long Run Road building
Two IRS liens totaling about $120,000
A $50,000 loan from a relative in dispute
Unpaid educational loans
Fired by Elizabeth Twp
Fired by Versailles
Scammed the city out of $1000s of rent with the help of the mayor
Scofflaw with respect to earned income tax and business privilege tax
Over paid by his friends on MACM with a $25,000 bond disclosure fee.
Illegally campaigned on the city premises and clock for the senator and mayor and this is what landed Veon, Orie, DeWeese, and Habay in the state cage.
Unpaid MASD property taxes covered up by his school board friends and the Keystone delinquent tax collector.
Neglected to record the deed for city hall for years.
Was fined by the court for neglecting to submit a required document timely.
Now how would you characterize our esteemed, 2X DUI, scofflaw city solicitor? Did he use the scummy lawyer tactics of stupidity, irresponsibility, incompetence or ABUSE the revered City RESPECT theme?
#7 Jan 31, 2013
The ATV van ordinance will not be approved. The mayor and the machine control the votes of several councilpersons
Carr is indebted to MC and JB. His watering hole has new gaming machines and is open after THREE (news black out) gaming machine raids. He was gifted the IV chair. He is moving in on running the Palisades and Marina and restaurant. All this with the tacit concurrence of the senator and orchestrated by the mayor.
Mr. Dellapenna recently had his brother-in-law hired by MACM. This was orchestrated by MC and JB. They now own his vote.
McCall has two relatives employed by the MACM and he is on the MACM board. He is also a councilman. These are conflicts of interest and MC and JB look the other way. Someone well connected got him out of hot water at the county jailed when he let a federal inmate use his phone to threaten a witness.
They will attempt to entice Councilwomen Walker-Montgomery's vote by offering support and endorsement for her run for council in May. Then after the vote, they will throw her under the bus like they did to MACM Mr. Rost and City Administrator Dennis Pittman. She could be the swing vote and so far has exhibited independence and interiority.
Flipper Councilman Soles said he would never support a 2X DUI solicitor but after a few basketball outings with the mayor and some refreshments after council meeting at the Viking he was psychologically reprogrammed to get with the corrupt machine program. You can expect the Flipper to flip and come up on the machine side. If he does not flip, his spouse would be in an awkward position when breaking bread with a former mayors spouse. He sold out his credibility and is in the machine can do no wrong trance.
Vote is over and case is closed - unless Flipper flips and Ms. Montgomery votes her conscious.
#8 Feb 1, 2013
What does that even mean?
If you read more carefully, I said that she complained immediately AFTER the property was purchased. She went to council right after the deed cleared. Public records show that.
Correct. And kids riding dirt bikes on their dad's property is a business?
Pot calling thee kettle.
#9 Feb 1, 2013
First off, I don't even know the solicitor.
Second, lawyers generally ARE scummy...at least the ones that pull out every possible legal argument against something hoping to wear down the average joe and bully their way to "success".
Where did she get 200 signatures from? There isn't even that many people living in her section of Haler Heights. And if she were being honest, ATV use in HER neighborhood is the ONLY issue that should be at hand. But no, she has misrepresented the whole issue and blown it out of proportion because she doesnt like someone else using the property that she has considered "hers" for years.
Anyone can collect signatures on a piece of paper. Especially if they lie or misrepresent the issue.
Which, has been done.
Funny how you condemn MY opinion as machine-influenced because you disagree with me.
#10 Feb 1, 2013
What does ANY of this have to do with the issue at hand?
I get it.....lets accuse the public officials of favoritism and such so as to maybe try and sway the vote to prove otherwise.
Luckily, the council members are ethical people who look at issues as they are.
And the issue here is that there is one pissed off lawyer and a few of her buddies who want "their" privacy and quiet buffer zone back and they will stop at nothing to get it - even misrepresenting the real issues involved to do so.
Shame on them.
And some of you out there are SOOOOO paranoid. EVERY thing is a conspiracy.
Sure, no doubt some favoritism is involved. But hey, that's politics. Dont agree with how things are run? Speak out PUBLICLY and RUN FOR OFFICE YOURSELF. Anonymously accusing our local leaders of corruption is cowardly and will not accomplish anything anyways, especially on a forum like Topix, known for the anonymous muckraking, most of which is pure BS.
#11 Feb 1, 2013
If you are referring to my comment that "I am sure she would be complaining no matter what was done on that property"....
What was meant, perhaps not clear enough for you, is that she was perfectly happy with NOTHING being done on that property for decades. It affords her an extra quiet buffer zone that most people in any suburb do not have. Its dirt bikes that are her issue right now....but in fact her first complaint, if you look at the public record, was lodged when all that was going on was CHAIN SAWING to clear brush and trees. Bikes had not yet even touched the property.
Had it not been dirt bikes, but instead someone bought it to build a house or make a dog park of it or whatever, she would be complaining.
This is pretty clear to anyone with half a brain.
She is NOW calling for a city wide BAN on dirtbikes and ATVs because of what is happening on ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY IN MCKEESPORT.
She knows that fighting it just based on ONE PROPERTY is not as easy as making a case for "public safety" nad getting signaturs based on that misrepresentation.
Like I said, sleazy lawyer tactics.
#12 Feb 1, 2013
The lot where the riding is occurring is less than two acres, in a valley that is bordered by over fifty homes. Two-thirds of it is not more than 150 feet wide. Would you want several ATVs and dirt bikes riding that close to your home several hours per day, kicking up dust, making noise and preventing you from using your yard? The Youngs have nothing to worry about. The lot is down and across the street from their home, and they will be able to fully enjoy their back yard where little or none of the noise and dust will reach them.
Neighbors did suggest to the Youngs that the lot be used for other activities for their kids and their friends, i.e. baseball, riding regular bikes. But, this isn't just about the kids. It's also about adults, their ATV riding buddies, having an exclusive area to play with their ATV toys.
ATV and dirt bike riding has also been a problem on the Fawcett lot off of Marshall, behind homes on lower Wainwright and up and down Marshall Drive -- and on the streets of Grandview, Fawcett Plan, Christy Park and 10th ward.
In November, Council passed a motion, directing Solitor Jason Elash to draft an ordinance. The mayor and Elash chose to give Council two proposed ordinances the ATV lady drafted, rather than preparing their own. And Council had the chance to look over those ordinances and revise them in any way they wanted: putting in restrictions without a ban, just keeping ATVs out of residential areas, etc. Great way to get this hot issue off their desk; blame the ATV lady. The ordinance is at City Hall for review. The petition I saw and signed had the names and addresses of the people who were signing. And, not all were from Haler Heights.
This is about bullying, a few people who are trying to intimidate the rest of the community into letting them ruin the neighborhoods where they live.
#13 Feb 1, 2013
This Arnold Drive ATV thing has our concern and attention. We live in the vicinity of Beckman and Diehl Drives. We enjoy our quiescent and tranquil neighborhood. That is why we moved here.
I heard from some of my good neighbors who expressed concern that an ATV entertainment center could be permitted on the vacant property behind Diehl and off lower Beckman if council votes against the lady lawyer ordinance proposal.
I am told by my well informed neighbor that the unknown owner of this property might be exploring an archery range or a paid archery hunting preserve or an ATV, snowmobile, dirt bike, and paint gun range on the property. My neighbor seems to think that this could increase the value of all properties because of the attraction of Serra High School and this entertainment center. My other neighbor insists that the city owns this property and never develop it for that purpose. My other neighbor heard that MASD bought it for their third elementary school. I do not who to believe with all these clashing stories.
My wife, children and I wonder how the several policemen, two firemen, councilman (McCall) and a city employee who live on either Diehl or Beckman would appreciate the noisy entertainment center. This ATV Ban Ordinance proposed has city wide and 12th Ward ramifications.
However, I support the second ATV Park because the property will be reassessed as a more valuable entity and the governments receive much more property taxes. This might lower my outrageous sewage fee to fund the $1 million city host fee and the mayor cannot indentify the sources of this revenue for this host fee. For this reason of sewage fee reduction we are opposed to the ATV Ban Ordinance. We will live with the noise if the mayor reduces the outrageous of sewage fees.
However, a special tax should be imposed on all that use the Arnold ATV Park or Diehl ATV Park to reduce our sewage fees. This is the ordinance we support if the ATV Ban Ordinance fails.
#14 Feb 1, 2013
First off, I do ride myself (though not locally, I have not been invited....)..... 150 feet is not enough room to ride and have any fun on, aside from riding THRU that area to a larger area. SO I have a hard time believing that any riders are dwelling in that 150 area for very long.
Also, I think that the argument could be made that many people make a lot of noise in their yards with lawn mowers and wheedwhackers and chain saws and leaf blowers for "several hours a day" and cause neighbors displeasure with noise and dust as far as using their yards. And these machines are being used within 50 feet of their neighbors.
Should we ban those too?
I would MUCH rather here kids on dirtbikes having fun in the woods that the endless concert of yard machinery that surrounds me every weekend.
Sounds like jealousy to me.
Most stock ATVs and dirt bikes these days are very quiet compared to lawnmowers and leaf blowers.....that is documented.
Explain the "problem". I live in the area you speak of and have seen dirtbikes MAYBE once or three times in a years time.
If it is a kid and he/she is being reckless, its a problem. If its a older kid or adult crossing the street or riding along slowly to get to a field or something, well, so what. People in cars speed , roll thru stop signs and such and no one seems to complain about THAT.
I agree that council, if they feel that an ordinance is needed, should be crafted by our COUNCIL, not by a retired lawyer with noting better to do who just wants to have a luxury that most of do NOT have, a wooded buffer zone. It isnt her property nor anyone's who lives along it.
First, the ONLY names that should be on that particular petition should be from Haler Heights people who own property in that same area as the property in question. People from Diehl drive or other parts of the city have NO BUSINESS being on there. She is throwing out a huge net and catching whatever she can.
People up on Beckman have to put up with huge stadium lights and booming marching bands all the time because of how their homes look down into the "valley". They live with it.
#15 Feb 1, 2013
The biggest open secret in the city is that our city solicitor is lazy, irresponsible, disrespectful, a bully, scofflaw and incompetent. He even lies now and then. I guess that forewarned the lady lawyer.
His 2X DUIs and over 25 Court docket numbers for liens, etc on the Prothronotarys web site provides volumes of corroborating evidence.
Also, he has still not recorded the City Hall deed. He is only about the five years late. I believe that lady lawyer has a little difficultly with his credibility and reliability.
I think the lady lawyer should invoice the city solicitor for her excellent service. I feel obligated to warn the lady lawyer about his inventory of rubber checks. Accept cash only from the esteemed city solicitor.
#16 Feb 1, 2013
I guess that Serra High School has dissolved their band and not paid the stadium lights electric invoice this year. I had not heard the band since the last game in November and rarely see those very noise lights operating since the last game. The very deafeningly scoreboard must be malfunctioning.
You failed Webster 101. What does all the time mean on a timeline?
You failed English 101. How does a house look into a valley? Or do you mean, a domicile positioned with respect to concave terrain which is the concentrated source of human generated acoustic energy?
#17 Feb 1, 2013
You said the covenant was aimed at prohibiting businesses. I said that the existing zoning ordinance for the City prohibits businesses in that residentially zoned area.
Therefore a new and separate ordinance is required to ban or restrict ATVs, etc. use on that property and all others such properties in the City.
What part of the above do you not understand?
#18 Feb 1, 2013
When is that second Haler Heights ATV Noisedome opening? Access is so much easier from the end of Beckman. I cannot wait for it to open. Then all of Haler Heights will enjoy the sounds of happy and safe operators.
I found a good deal on Craigs List on a wrecked ATV.
My good neighbor has contacts, i.e., not the optical enhancing devices inserted in each eye. She told me that it will be defeated by council.
The machine, fireman, policeman, and mayor have persuaded Soles, Carr, McCall, Dellapenna and Montgomery to vote against it. They are good puppets and cohorts and will not commit politician suicide so they think. Watch the backlash on this one at the next elections.
#19 Feb 1, 2013
This retired esteemed barrister exhibits wisdom, credibility, responsibility, respect, integrity, and courage. She should consider running for mayor or state senator or state representative.
#20 Feb 2, 2013
Read the ordinance. It permits the use of ATVs and other machinery to maintain property, so you can use your lawnmower, leafblower, weedwacker to keep up your yard. McKeesport's zoning ordinance already sets a decibel limit for noise and mandates how long that limit may be exceeded. The ATV ordinance also permits the use of those vehicles by police, firefighters, and other city workers in the performance of their jobs.
And, I agree with "Tired of Bickering" that 150 feet is not enough space for riding, especially when it is near homes. Even 300 feet seem pretty tight. So considerate that he or she rides elsewhere.
#21 Feb 2, 2013
I think that Mr. Dellapenna owes big time the machine, Brewster, and Cherepko for getting his relative a job at MCAM.
He sold his soul on this one. In my opinion, no matter what the former school teachers says publiclly, he will side with the fireman. He want the ATV Noisedome
Soles has a tough act. He has to balance his basketball friend's pressure with losing future real estate business in Haler Height. I think the commission are much more in HH. Word like this spreads fast in the Port. I think he will be smart with this one and go with his future commissions. He needs these commissions long after the mayor returns to teaching.
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