Baptism Is Not Essential?

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“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

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#1 Nov 23, 2011
Put aside previously held views/beliefs. Forget about what this preacher, or any other preacher, teaches. Simply read the Scriptures for what they say, and come to your own conclusions.

The majority on the forum treat baptism secondary as if it’s not part of the plan of God. Admittedly, I once held the view as many do here, but I’m now convinced otherwise. Trust me, I rejected this more than anyone here. I spent, literally, years on this one subject before acknowledging it as the truth.

Often, people who believe that God uses water in His salvation plans are branded as "Baptismal Regenerationist." This is merely a catch-phrase and a straw man employed to pigeon-hole people. In all my years of conversing with people who hold this view, I have never come across anyone who believes that water baptism can regenerate someone. Baptism cannot regenerate or save anyone, but it is true, according to the Scriptures, that it is in baptism, when preceded by faith and repentance, that Jesus regenerates or saves someone lost and condemned in their sins.

God used water all through the bible to accomplish His plans, so why not in salvation? I believe that the vehicle through which God has chosen to add sinners to the body of Jesus Christ is water baptism, preceded by faith and repentance.

Ephesians 4:5 - there is one Lord and one faith, there is also only one baptism that makes it possible for us to be a part of the body of Christ. Is baptism valid, if it has not been performed for the reasons found in the Bible? This, I find troubling, and something worth considering. Can one accidently become a Christian? Can one repent and not know why he repents? It seems Peter ties repentance and baptism as equal parts for the same purpose. If this be the case, then it would mean that one must repent purposely in order that he be forgiven. If this be the case, then it would mean that one must repent purposely be baptized that he be forgiven. Note: I’m not completely sold on this, although I firmly believe baptism to be part of the plan of Salvation.

Perhaps those who reject Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 22:16, Romans 6:3-4, Galatians 3:26-27, Colossians 2:11-13 and 1 Peter 3:21 have not only rejected the teaching of those passages, but also those passages’ inspired teachers, and more particularly the Holy Spirit by whom they were inspired. In my opinion, these verses show the necessity and essentiality of baptism.

However, people are often baptized because the Bible tells them to; but seemingly not for the reasons the Bible tells them to. Today, we have alter calls, sinners prayer, accept Jesus in our hearts type of salvation.

My question: will God except an altered plan of salvation? If one stood up and told Peter in Acts 2 that they rather walk an isle and pray to God for salvation, would Peter have accepted this? Would God?

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#2 Nov 23, 2011
1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism

At what point are you born again?

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#3 Nov 23, 2011
bonhoeffer wrote:
1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism
At what point are you born again?
The best I can tell, a sinner is forgiven “when” he submits to that which God has commanded. In other words, when a sinner, for the purpose of remission, repents and is baptized, he is saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#4 Nov 23, 2011
The sum of Thy word is truth….(Psalm 119:160)

…here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.(Isaiah 28:13)

We are not at liberty to go through the Bible randomly collecting scriptures that, by themselves, appear to authenticate a particular doctrine or belief.

Admittedly, it may seem I do what I just stated we should not do. However, I don’t just believe Acts 2:38, I also believe John 3:16. They both are truth. Rather than isolate John 3:16 and tell folks that if they simply believe they will be saved, I also gather more information and put it all together. John 3:16 says nothing about repentance. However, from Luke 13:3, 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 and 2 Peter 3:9-10, we understand that a person must also repent of his sins. Neither does John 3:16 say anything about confession. However, from Matthew 10:32-33, Romans 10:9-10 and 1 John 4:15, we understand that a person must also confess Jesus as the Son of God and as Lord. And John 3:16 does not say anything about baptism. However, from Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21, we understand that a person must also be baptized for the forgiveness of his sins.

Everything that the Bible states on any subject must be considered and harmonized in order to determine the truth about that doctrine. Additionally, one scripture can never be used to trump or negate another scripture.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#5 Nov 23, 2011
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Talking about setting aside our doctrines...

1 pet 3:21 does not teach that baptism saves, it teaches just the opposite.

Water is a symbol of what does save us which is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The flood water was sent to destroy the wicked not to save Noah.

Noah by faith built the ark which is what saved them from the flood. Jesus is our ark of safety, it was his death burial and Resurrection which procured our salvation. We obey in water baptism but not in order to be saved. The power is not found in the water but rather in Jesus resurrection-which is his power over death for those of us who believe.

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#6 Nov 23, 2011
Religious Review wrote:
<quoted text>
The best I can tell, a sinner is forgiven “when” he submits to that which God has commanded. In other words, when a sinner, for the purpose of remission, repents and is baptized, he is saved by faith in Jesus Christ.
Forgive me for being pedantic, but the question was at what point are we born again?

Is it when we believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Is it when we repent?

Is it when we are water baptized?

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7 Nov 23, 2011
bonhoeffer wrote:
<quoted text>
Forgive me for being pedantic, but the question was at what point are we born again?
Is it when we believe in Jesus as Lord and Savior?
Is it when we repent?
Is it when we are water baptized?
The best I can tell, a sinner is forgiven “when” he submits to that which God has commanded. In other words, when a sinner, for the purpose of remission, repents and is baptized, he is saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

The above answered your question. I’m sorry, but that’s my answer.

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#8 Nov 23, 2011
Can anyone else answer the question?

At what point are we born again?

1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism

:-

John 3:3-8
3 Jesus replied,“Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked.“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered,“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying,‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#9 Nov 23, 2011
Bobby wrote:
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Talking about setting aside our doctrines...
1 pet 3:21 does not teach that baptism saves, it teaches just the opposite.
Water is a symbol of what does save us which is the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The flood water was sent to destroy the wicked not to save Noah.
Noah by faith built the ark which is what saved them from the flood. Jesus is our ark of safety, it was his death burial and Resurrection which procured our salvation. We obey in water baptism but not in order to be saved. The power is not found in the water but rather in Jesus resurrection-which is his power over death for those of us who believe.
When Peter says “it” saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, what is the “it” he is speaking about? The “it” that saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ is Baptism wherein a pledge is made toward God.

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#10 Nov 23, 2011
bonhoeffer wrote:
Can anyone else answer the question?
At what point are we born again?
1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism
:-
John 3:3-8
3 Jesus replied,“Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked.“Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered,“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying,‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
In Act 2, Peter preached the gospel. They had faith prior to asking Peter what to do. Did faith in and of itself save them? Or, was repentance a requirement? Not just repentance, but Peter says baptism is unto the same purpose. You tell me WHEN they were forgiven in Acts 2.

1. Faith
2. Repentance
3. Baptism

Scripture seems clear that all three occurred before they were forgiven.

Note particularly verses 40 and 41:

And with many other words did he [Peter] testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves [those he was preaching to in Acts 2:38] from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Peter did not recognize those Judahites as saved and added to the body of Christ until after they had faith, repented, and baptized.

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#11 Nov 23, 2011
Religious Review wrote:
1. Faith
2. Repentance
3. Baptism

Scripture seems clear that all three occurred before they were forgiven.
I'm asking about being born again and you keep referring to being forgiven.

Do you equate being "born again" with being "forgiven"?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12 Nov 23, 2011
bonhoeffer wrote:
1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism
At what point are you born again?
Romans 6 answers it very clearly

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#13 Nov 23, 2011
If being "born again" and being "forgiven" are one in the same, or identical, then by definition they have identical attributes.

One of those attributes would be how many times that event can occur.

You can be forgiven multiple times, correct?

Can you be born again multiple times?

I say no. Therefore they are not identical.

I'll ask the question again:

At what point are we born again?

1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#14 Nov 23, 2011
JC,

Please don't leave it up to me to verbalize your understanding of scripture.

State it plainly for me, please.

At what point are we born again?

1) Faith
2) Repentance
3) Water baptism

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#15 Nov 23, 2011
bonhoeffer wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm asking about being born again and you keep referring to being forgiven.
Do you equate being "born again" with being "forgiven"?
Tell me how they differ then we can go from there.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#16 Nov 23, 2011
Religious Review wrote:
<quoted text>
When Peter says “it” saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, what is the “it” he is speaking about? The “it” that saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ is Baptism wherein a pledge is made toward God.
Simple, there is double figure involved. The flood symbolizes baptism and baptism symbolizes salvation. The "it" refers back to Jesus work on the cross.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#17 Nov 23, 2011
I find it interesting that our conversation always comes back to water baptism. The coc here are more interested in the act of water baptism than they are on what is symbolizes which is simple. Why can't we stop focusing on the symbol and focus on the cross. I think this empties the cross of it's power.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#18 Nov 23, 2011
In coc doctrine they teach that we must go under the water believing that water baptism is for remission of sins.

I believe that we should focus on the event at Calvary with our eyes on Jesus our redeemer.

Since: Jun 10

Lone Oak, TX

#19 Nov 23, 2011
Religious Review wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me how they differ then we can go from there.
Please refer to post #13.

“What Does The Bible Say”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#20 Nov 23, 2011
Bobby wrote:
I find it interesting that our conversation always comes back to water baptism. The coc here are more interested in the act of water baptism than they are on what is symbolizes which is simple. Why can't we stop focusing on the symbol and focus on the cross. I think this empties the cross of it's power.
Again, I'm not with the church of Christ. How does baptism empty the power of the cross when it was commanded by Jesus who hung on the cross

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