Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#82 Jun 17, 2014
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
I can not change your mind and you can't change my mind. One day we will both know-hope you have done enough good works to stay out of purgatory.
The whole thing with me is for people who might read this posts and never make a comment.

They can compare and may search for the truth. They can believe Pope Bobby or the Church started by Jesus.

And I hope I find myself in purgatory. Then I know I will be seeing Jesus , as you put it after I am glorified.

Christ loved the Church, cherishes & nourishes it. The Church is holy and without blemish.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. Ephesians 5:25-30

Hey William. Is this one of the verses you believe. You are one of those either/or believers.

Do you love the Church like Jesus did.
Bobby

Mansfield, TX

#83 Jun 17, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole thing with me is for people who might read this posts and never make a comment.
They can compare and may search for the truth. They can believe Pope Bobby or the Church started by Jesus.
And I hope I find myself in purgatory. Then I know I will be seeing Jesus , as you put it after I am glorified.
Christ loved the Church, cherishes & nourishes it. The Church is holy and without blemish.
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. Ephesians 5:25-30
Hey William. Is this one of the verses you believe. You are one of those either/or believers.
Do you love the Church like Jesus did.
When I think of the catholic church I do not think of people, I think of the vast array of ornate buildings with statues and objects of worship. I am certain I am not the only one who sees it that way. I am sure that there is a lot of good things emanating from there.

The word pious also comes to my mind.

Here is the definition of pious:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pio...

What I am saying is that the image in my mind of a catholic church is not a people of God but place of worship.

The word church is most often used to define a building where people gather. In the bible when the word church is used it is not a temple or a place of worship, but it always refers to a set apart people-set apart by God not the presence of a priest or pope.

If you wish to portray the catholics in a different light you have a big job ahead of you-you will have to find a way to change it's image.
William

Birmingham, AL

#84 Jun 17, 2014
"Hey William. Is this one of the verses you believe. You are one of those either/or believers.
Do you love the Church like Jesus did?"

I sure do. It just doesn't happen to be your church, which is not the church, the Body of Christ.

The church, the Body of Christ, is a spiritual body made up of only saved people. It is not based on earth in Rome or anywhere else in some building. Christ is it's head, and there isn't a saved person in the Body of Christ that is "still working for their salvation".

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#85 Jun 18, 2014
William wrote:
"Hey William. Is this one of the verses you believe. You are one of those either/or believers.
Do you love the Church like Jesus did?"
I sure do. It just doesn't happen to be your church, which is not the church, the Body of Christ.
The church, the Body of Christ, is a spiritual body made up of only saved people. It is not based on earth in Rome or anywhere else in some building. Christ is it's head, and there isn't a saved person in the Body of Christ that is "still working for their salvation".
Where did you get that crap. How the spritual body of only saved people forgive sins so they are forgiven in heaven?

I believe this is one of you fallible teachings.that you admit you have.
William

Birmingham, AL

#86 Jun 18, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get that crap. How the spritual body of only saved people forgive sins so they are forgiven in heaven?

I believe this is one of you fallible teachings.that you admit you have.
Sin was forgiven with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, Mike. You need to keep on reading past Matthew once in a while. There is a whole lot more going on.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#87 Jun 18, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Sin was forgiven with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, Mike. You need to keep on reading past Matthew once in a while. There is a whole lot more going on.
Either Jesus is confused or you .

After he was killed and and buried and rose again, my book says.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them,‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).(This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)

Hmmm. All sins were forgiven already? Since you are right, when Jesus had ascended to hell and came back he must have forgotten that ALL sins was forgiven a few days earlier.

Hey William the Bible is THAT/AND. I think this must one of those things you admit being in error on.
William

Birmingham, AL

#88 Jun 18, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
Either Jesus is confused or you.

After he was killed and and buried and rose again, my book says.

And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to THEM,‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23).(This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)

Hmmm. All sins were forgiven already? Since you are right, when Jesus had ascended to hell and came back he must have forgotten that ALL sins was forgiven a few days earlier.

Hey William the Bible is THAT/AND. I think this must one of those things you admit being in error on.
Amen to that verse. He most certainly gave the 12 disciples that power.

But not to anyone else.

Paul, Timothy, etc. never forgave or remitted any sins. They knew that sin was already forgiven with the cross, burial, and resurrection.

Things that are different are never the same thing.
BackAgain

Martinsville, VA

#89 Jun 18, 2014
John 20:23 does not sanction the modern Catholic clergy procedure of granting “absolution” from sin. Throughout the Bible, it is stated that God alone can “takes sins away”, in the sense that they are to be remembered no more, via the Blood of Christ, and to His glory we are made just by Jesus’ resurrection, wherein, we can say we are saved by HIS LIFE.

There is a biblical idiom whereby one sometimes is said to actually do what he is merely authorized to declare. Note:

1) Pharaoh’s butler said regarding Joseph,“... me he [Joseph] restored unto mine office, and him [the baker] he hanged”(Gen. 41:13). Joseph did not actually restore the butler to his office, nor did he personally hang the baker. He merely announced, by prophetic insight, what the fate of these men would be.

2) Did God appoint Jeremiah to actually destroy and overthrow kingdoms (Jer. 1:10), or merely to declare their destiny? The answer should be obvious. See also Ezekiel 43:3.

Only God can bestow absolute pardon ( Psa. 130:4; Isa. 43:25; Dan. 9:9; Mic. 7:18; Acts 8:22)

John 20:23 make it clear that the apostles were authorized only to announce the terms of forgiveness, and that upon the basis of God’s previous appointment. Literally, the text means:“Those whose sins you forgive, have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive, have not already been forgiven.”

If you wish to get the true meaning, why stop at John 20:23? Can we not go to Acts, see for ourselves the conclusion is confirmed by the fact that the apostles, on the day of Pentecost, in harmony with the Spirit’s guidance, did not personally forgive the sins of anyone; rather, they merely announced the conditions of pardon to which men and women were amenable.

To believers who sincerely inquired:“... what shall we do?”, Peter responded, "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins... " (Acts 2:37-38) No Pope Peter or Catholic clergy procedure of granting “absolution” from sin at all!! Mike, you are quite dishonest in your approach to Scripture. The apostles, on the day of Pentecost, in harmony with the Spirit’s guidance, did not personally forgive the sins of anyone!! They merely declared what the Lord commanded them to when one comes for Salvation by the precious Blood of Jesus Christ.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#90 Jun 18, 2014
BackAgain wrote:
John 20:23 does not sanction the modern Catholic clergy procedure of granting “absolution” from sin. Throughout the Bible, it is stated that God alone can “takes sins away”, in the sense that they are to be remembered no more, via the Blood of Christ, and to His glory we are made just by Jesus’ resurrection, wherein, we can say we are saved by HIS LIFE.
There is a biblical idiom whereby one sometimes is said to actually do what he is merely authorized to declare. Note:
1) Pharaoh’s butler said regarding Joseph,“... me he [Joseph] restored unto mine office, and him [the baker] he hanged”(Gen. 41:13). Joseph did not actually restore the butler to his office, nor did he personally hang the baker. He merely announced, by prophetic insight, what the fate of these men would be.
2) Did God appoint Jeremiah to actually destroy and overthrow kingdoms (Jer. 1:10), or merely to declare their destiny? The answer should be obvious. See also Ezekiel 43:3.
Only God can bestow absolute pardon ( Psa. 130:4; Isa. 43:25; Dan. 9:9; Mic. 7:18; Acts 8:22)
John 20:23 make it clear that the apostles were authorized only to announce the terms of forgiveness, and that upon the basis of God’s previous appointment. Literally, the text means:“Those whose sins you forgive, have already been forgiven; those whose sins you do not forgive, have not already been forgiven.”
If you wish to get the true meaning, why stop at John 20:23? Can we not go to Acts, see for ourselves the conclusion is confirmed by the fact that the apostles, on the day of Pentecost, in harmony with the Spirit’s guidance, did not personally forgive the sins of anyone; rather, they merely announced the conditions of pardon to which men and women were amenable.
To believers who sincerely inquired:“... what shall we do?”, Peter responded, "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins... " (Acts 2:37-38) No Pope Peter or Catholic clergy procedure of granting “absolution” from sin at all!! Mike, you are quite dishonest in your approach to Scripture. The apostles, on the day of Pentecost, in harmony with the Spirit’s guidance, did not personally forgive the sins of anyone!! They merely declared what the Lord commanded them to when one comes for Salvation by the precious Blood of Jesus Christ.
Who gives you the authority to speak for God?

Are you infallible?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#91 Jun 18, 2014
William wrote:
<quoted text>
Amen to that verse. He most certainly gave the 12 disciples that power.
But not to anyone else.
Paul, Timothy, etc. never forgave or remitted any sins. They knew that sin was already forgiven with the cross, burial, and resurrection.
Things that are different are never the same thing.
He did not give you any power to interpret scripture. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

But wait, all saved people are the C

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#92 Jun 18, 2014
But wait, all saved people are the Church so everybody is the pillar and foundation of truth..
William

Birmingham, AL

#93 Jun 18, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
He did not give you any power to interpret scripture.
Paul did not forgive or retain sins. His letters all deal with sin already being forgiven by the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Plain as day to anyone who can read past Matthew.
William

Birmingham, AL

#94 Jun 18, 2014
Colossians 2:13-15

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Wow, look at this great news. Sin is already forgiven by what Jesus did, and not a Catholic priest anywhere in sight to have to help out with the confessing and abstaining and more confessing. Cuts out the middle-man completely.

But 99.44% of people today just refuse to believe this wonderful news.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#95 Jun 18, 2014
William wrote:
Colossians 2:13-15
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Wow, look at this great news. Sin is already forgiven by what Jesus did, and not a Catholic priest anywhere in sight to have to help out with the confessing and abstaining and more confessing. Cuts out the middle-man completely.
But 99.44% of people today just refuse to believe this wonderful news.
It is worse to have believed and fallen away than never to believe at all.

The Bible is THAT/AND William. Why don't believe all of it. The Church does.

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." - 2 Peter 2:20-21

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Mark 13:13
William

Birmingham, AL

#96 Jun 18, 2014
"The Bible is THAT/AND William. Why don't believe all of it. The Church does."

You can't have priests forgiving sins that are already forgiven. That is just one of the many problems with THAT/AND. Pretty soon you are "obeying" literally everything in the New Testament.

Like that part about selling out everything you own and giving the proceeds to the poor, which everyone reads but no one actually does.

Things that are different are never the same thing.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#97 Jun 18, 2014
William wrote:
"The Bible is THAT/AND William. Why don't believe all of it. The Church does."
You can't have priests forgiving sins that are already forgiven. That is just one of the many problems with THAT/AND. Pretty soon you are "obeying" literally everything in the New Testament.
Like that part about selling out everything you own and giving the proceeds to the poor, which everyone reads but no one actually does.
Things that are different are never the same thing.
So you 'obey' only what you believe and then pick out those that you literally believe.

That part says follow me. If everything you own is keeping you from doing that, you need to sell it. A good thing his rich follower St Joseph of Arimathea didn't do that. He provided the tomb for Jesus.
William

Birmingham, AL

#98 Jun 18, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
So you 'obey' only what you believe and then pick out those that you literally believe.

That part says follow me. If everything you own is keeping you from doing that, you need to sell it. A good thing his rich follower St Joseph of Arimathea didn't do that. He provided the tomb for Jesus.
I read the Bible to understand what is written to me because I am a Gentile, and the Bible says that the Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles. Simple to understand.

If had been a rich young Jew, I would have sold out everything that I owned and followed him as he commanded, but he never told me that, or you that, or Barnsweb that, so I know that we are all off the hook for having to do that.

Things that are different are never the same thing.
BackAgain

Martinsville, VA

#99 Jun 19, 2014
Mike_Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
He did not give you any power to interpret scripture. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.
But wait, all saved people are the C
Your short reply only validates my comment. Sadly, you see my point yet cling to the Catholic doctrine. When "Pope" Peter preached to the crowd at Pentecost, he did not personally forgive sins of anybody. Acts 2 totally smashes to pieces your position. Have a good day.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#100 Jun 19, 2014
BackAgain wrote:
<quoted text>
Your short reply only validates my comment. Sadly, you see my point yet cling to the Catholic doctrine. When "Pope" Peter preached to the crowd at Pentecost, he did not personally forgive sins of anybody. Acts 2 totally smashes to pieces your position. Have a good day.
Baptism forgave those sins. After baptism when they sinned the Christians confessed their sins to the Church. Whatever sins they forgave were forgiven in heaven. Jesus told them that.
Got a question for you. Why are 1/2 of your members, which are only a few in the big scheme of things, in Texas and Tenn.
BackAgain

Martinsville, VA

#101 Jun 19, 2014
Mike, I’d like a bit of honesty from you, okay.

In John 20:23, was this before the ascension of Jesus? Yes or No

Acts 2, was it after the ascension of Jesus? Yes or No

Did Peter or any of the Apostles personally forgive sin on the day of Pentecost? Yes or No

If you are honest, the answers are quite obvious. John 20:23 came before Jesus’ resurrection. Acts, the day of Pentecost, came after Jesus’ ascension. Moreover, the Apostles, on the day of Pentecost, did not personally forgive anybody; rather, they gave instruction ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’– that is, by His authority, to the believers who ask,“what shall we do”? In this way, John 20:23 was fulfilled in Acts 2:37-38. Again, note that the Apostles did not personally forgive sin; instead, remission of sin came by Jesus, the way of the cross, His death, His Blood.

No, Jesus did NOT say AFTER Pentecost or after Baptism, then you have the power to forgive sins. This was said to them before Pentecost and fulfilled at Pentecost. Nowhere, is there any place of Peter or any Apostle remitting sins. After one is a believer, he has a mediator, the Christ Jesus who continues forgiving sin. He forever intercedes [Hebrews 7:25] on the behalf of those added to the Church. Sorry, but we do not need any man, Catholic priest, or Pope. We have Jesus, Who done it all for us.

Try as you may, facts don’t lie. If you chose to pick Catholic doctrine with its manmade traditions, then, by all means, go for it. Just keep in mind, doing so, disregards the simple and plain teaching of Holy God breathed Scripture.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Martinsville Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
water baptism debate 9 hr Mike_Peterson 253
Christ - Petra 11 hr William 10
fan dies at race??? 16 hr jjb 2
Charles and Charles sex talk on Star News (Jan '13) 19 hr anonymous 7
Church of Christ - Rug of Hypocrisy (May '13) 21 hr PKA 33
How to be saved? Tue HEATH - 72 18
Johnny paying millions to bisexual (Mar '11) Sun Note 38
Martinsville Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Martinsville People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]