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Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#61
Jul 23, 2013
 
What does one have to do with the other? I never met someone because of what my parents named me? You continue to presume too much.

And it is a non sequitur argument, the fact that some protestants observe confession to a priest somehow makes it the only theologically correct thing to do. But since you brought up, I give you this for your consideration:

"Luther did not get rid of Private Confession, he just reformed it, cleaned it up of its abuses. There were three abuses in particular that needed to be corrected. One was that Confession was forced, mandatory, done under coercion and compulsion. The second abuse was the enumeration of sins, that you had to come up with a complete listing of your sins, in detail, or else you could not be sure that you had confessed adequately. The third, and perhaps the worst, abuse was that, instead of putting the emphasis on the absolution, God’s free gift of forgiveness, the priest would give the penitent works of satisfaction to perform, works of penance, to offset his sins. These “three oppressive things,” as Luther called them, had corrupted the practice of Confession, had turned it from a gift into a torture. And therefore these were the abuses that the Lutherans corrected and reformed."

http://steadfastlutherans.org/...

Yours,
Yolanda Xavier Yodel
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
You were unaware some protestants, in fact the original protestants, can and do confess their sins to a priest and receive absolution. I'm sure you never met any of those since no Anglican or Lutheran would name their child Yolanda. Just a fact of life.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#62
Jul 23, 2013
 
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
What does one have to do with the other? I never met someone because of what my parents named me? You continue to presume too much.
And it is a non sequitur argument, the fact that some protestants observe confession to a priest somehow makes it the only theologically correct thing to do. But since you brought up, I give you this for your consideration:
"Luther did not get rid of Private Confession, he just reformed it, cleaned it up of its abuses. There were three abuses in particular that needed to be corrected. One was that Confession was forced, mandatory, done under coercion and compulsion. The second abuse was the enumeration of sins, that you had to come up with a complete listing of your sins, in detail, or else you could not be sure that you had confessed adequately. The third, and perhaps the worst, abuse was that, instead of putting the emphasis on the absolution, God’s free gift of forgiveness, the priest would give the penitent works of satisfaction to perform, works of penance, to offset his sins. These “three oppressive things,” as Luther called them, had corrupted the practice of Confession, had turned it from a gift into a torture. And therefore these were the abuses that the Lutherans corrected and reformed."
http://steadfastlutherans.org/...
Yours,
Yolanda Xavier Yodel
<quoted text>
It is called penance. If you steal money, your sin can be forgiven. The penance is you have to pay the money back.

Since: Jun 11

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#63
Jul 23, 2013
 
Yolanda Xavier Yodel wrote:
What does one have to do with the other? I never met someone because of what my parents named me? You continue to presume too much.
And it is a non sequitur argument, the fact that some protestants observe confession to a priest somehow makes it the only theologically correct thing to do. But since you brought up, I give you this for your consideration:
"Luther did not get rid of Private Confession, he just reformed it, cleaned it up of its abuses. There were three abuses in particular that needed to be corrected. One was that Confession was forced, mandatory, done under coercion and compulsion. The second abuse was the enumeration of sins, that you had to come up with a complete listing of your sins, in detail, or else you could not be sure that you had confessed adequately. The third, and perhaps the worst, abuse was that, instead of putting the emphasis on the absolution, God’s free gift of forgiveness, the priest would give the penitent works of satisfaction to perform, works of penance, to offset his sins. These “three oppressive things,” as Luther called them, had corrupted the practice of Confession, had turned it from a gift into a torture. And therefore these were the abuses that the Lutherans corrected and reformed."
http://steadfastlutherans.org/...
Yours,
Yolanda Xavier Yodel
<quoted text>
Do you really think you are telling me something I don't know? Do you really think the Roman Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation of today is the same as it was in the 16th century? It seems you are ok with Luther when you can use him to bash Catholics but are you ok with infant baptism, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament?
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#64
Jul 23, 2013
 
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> Markeden, You have got to be kidding me that you don't know this. The CC went after Galileo for what he said, the CC went after Columbus because he said the world was round. There is no way you don't know this. This is history. Christmas celebration was also forbidden at one time by the CC. Please, maybe you'll learn something today, look it up. WOW, I am really shock that you don't know this. If this didn't happen, how did the protestant and the Lutheran come about.
Seriously. I would not mention history at all if I was you. You are terrible.

Galileo and the Church had it out because Galileo wanted to publish his theory that the Universe revolved around the Sun and he couldnt prove it. The Church was paying him. He had been supported by the Church for decades. He published is as fact and was punished.

Galileo was wrong. The Universe does not revolve around the Sun.

As for as Columbus , you must be out of your mind. Columbus was almost a militant, super Catholic. The Catholic Church has honored him since 1492. Ever heard of the Knights of Columbus?

Finally Christmas. It was the protestant Puritans who didn't celebrate Christmas when they were the Pilgrims. Now its the JWs.

What are thinking? Please don't talk about history any more.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#65
Jul 23, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think you are telling me something I don't know? Do you really think the Roman Catholic Sacrament of Reconciliation of today is the same as it was in the 16th century? It seems you are ok with Luther when you can use him to bash Catholics but are you ok with infant baptism, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament?
MarkEden continues with the presuming too much.

"Bash Catholics"? I don't think so. In fact, this might shock you, but last year I went to a Protestant church that met in a Catholic church's fellowship hall because they didn't have their own building. The bishop of that church would come regularly and greet us on Sunday mornings, and we were very friendly with each other. Just agreed to disagree on several points, but agreed on our love of and dedication to the Lord.

But I'm wondering this... do you deny that there were abuses in the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation that led to the creation of Protestantism?
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

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#66
Jul 23, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Seriously. I would not mention history at all if I was you. You are terrible.
Galileo and the Church had it out because Galileo wanted to publish his theory that the Universe revolved around the Sun and he couldnt prove it. The Church was paying him. He had been supported by the Church for decades. He published is as fact and was punished.
Galileo was wrong. The Universe does not revolve around the Sun.
As for as Columbus , you must be out of your mind. Columbus was almost a militant, super Catholic. The Catholic Church has honored him since 1492. Ever heard of the Knights of Columbus?
Finally Christmas. It was the protestant Puritans who didn't celebrate Christmas when they were the Pilgrims. Now its the JWs.
What are thinking? Please don't talk about history any more.
WOW, you are amazing. You are learning to take part truth and twist them around. Research before to contest something. Columbus was consider a enemy of the CC, when he was alive and it took about 100 years before the CC realize their mistake. At that time, Rome was the center of the so called universe. At the time of Galileo, most educational folks knew that the earth was round and it circle the sun. That what he publish. Even in his time has you claim, the universe has we know it did not exist. RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

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#67
Jul 23, 2013
 
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> WOW, you are amazing. You are learning to take part truth and twist them around. Research before to contest something. Columbus was consider a enemy of the CC, when he was alive and it took about 100 years before the CC realize their mistake. At that time, Rome was the center of the so called universe. At the time of Galileo, most educational folks knew that the earth was round and it circle the sun. That what he publish. Even in his time has you claim, the universe has we know it did not exist. RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH.
PS I forgot to add that the Kof C was form in USA sometime in the late 1870's by a Catholic name Father Mcgivney. He from it to help men in to active in the CC.
Yolanda Xavier Yodel

Bellefonte, PA

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#68
Jul 23, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
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It is called penance. If you steal money, your sin can be forgiven. The penance is you have to pay the money back.
Penance, meaning repentance, is absolutely necessary. Penance as a practice of righting a wrong is fantastic. I love the idea that one person wrongs another, that they do everything they can to make it right again. Where I take issue is if the second example of penance is a part of the "formula" to having the sin forgiven.

In other words, your sin will be forgiven when you pay the money back. This means that the formula is like this: Christ's work on the cross + your work in penance = forgiveness. I can't accept this, because I can't add anything to the work of Christ on the cross. I'll do penance out of gratitude for what he did, not to add to it.
Barnweb

Alliance, OH

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#69
Jul 27, 2013
 
Hmmm. He still didn't answer, did he?

"But I'm wondering this... do you deny that there were abuses in the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation that led to the creation of Protestantism? "

Since: Jun 11

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#70
Jul 27, 2013
 

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Barnweb wrote:
Hmmm. He still didn't answer, did he?
"But I'm wondering this... do you deny that there were abuses in the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation that led to the creation of Protestantism? "
Why would anyone deny factual history? And the fix was the creation of 30,000 plus prot denominations not including your own little one man church.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#71
Jul 27, 2013
 
Barnweb wrote:
Hmmm. He still didn't answer, did he?
"But I'm wondering this... do you deny that there were abuses in the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation that led to the creation of Protestantism? "
There are sinners that are in authority that do wrong in every Church. Do we do away with all Churches are keeping starting new Churches until we find perfect people?

Jesus started one Church and he promised he would protect from all evil until the end of ages. From sinners from within, invading armies and protesters.

He has kept his promise while the protesters has split up the body of Christ so the world now looks at followers of Christ as divided so it must not be true just as Jesus predicted unless we are all one.

Since: Jun 11

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#72
Jul 27, 2013
 
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would anyone deny factual history? And the fix was the creation of 30,000 plus prot denominations not including your own little one man church.
So the red X means there were no abuses? Or does it mean there are not now 30,000 + 1 prot denominations? Guess I will never know.

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