Matthew 15 traditions of men?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#142 May 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter replaced Judas.
Nobody said the Pope is an Apostle. He is a successor to Peter. The Vicar of Christ.
Priests and Bishops are successors of the Apostles not Apostles It is like tracing your family back into time.
A priest can trace his succession if the records have survived.
Peter replaced Judas? Matthias replaced Judas. Peter is never called in scripture the vicar of Christ. Biblically, every believer is a priest and bishops are another term for elders, which were to be in every congregation. Bishops were always plural in a congregation, not a bishop, but bishops. Neither priests nor bishops were called successors of the apostles.

All of the Catholic teaching and organization is "the language of Ashdod". And no matter how old an organization is, if it transgresses the word of God and does not teach truth, it does not have His blessings or authority. You claim the RCC is the pillar and ground of the truth, but so far, we see no truth coming from it, only traditions of men that contradict the scriptures.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#143 May 5, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter replaced Judas.
Nobody said the Pope is an Apostle. He is a successor to Peter. The Vicar of Christ.
Priests and Bishops are successors of the Apostles not Apostles It is like tracing your family back into time.
A priest can trace his succession if the records have survived.
To be a successor of Peter, the pope must have the authority of an apostle-he doesn't. Otherwise he would be writing new scripture/revelation. we don't need a pope, a preacher, sunday school teacher or anyone else to reveal the deep things of God-we have the scripture. The church is to have leaders chosen by men but not by special men who have more authority such as cardinals.

Eph-So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers,

Cor-But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God's deep secrets.

According to your analogy, we cannot be a christian unless we can trace our unbroken family history back to Jesus. It does not work that way.

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#144 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
All of the Catholic teaching and organization is "the language of Ashdod". And no matter how old an organization is, if it transgresses the word of God and does not teach truth, it does not have His blessings or authority. You claim the RCC is the pillar and ground of the truth, but so far, we see no truth coming from it, only traditions of men that contradict the scriptures.
100% true. The RCC teachings are only traditions of men that contradict the scriptures- language of Ashdod. The "pope" has no authority at all. Just a man made tradition- like most of their teaching/practice. To be blunt, the RCC is not the Church at all. Thier teaching indeed transgresses the word of God and does not teach truth, it does not have Gods blessing nor His authority.

http://www.dgcoc.org/studies/Denom/lesson_4.h...
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#145 May 6, 2013
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
100% true. The RCC teachings are only traditions of men that contradict the scriptures- language of Ashdod. The "pope" has no authority at all. Just a man made tradition- like most of their teaching/practice. To be blunt, the RCC is not the Church at all. Thier teaching indeed transgresses the word of God and does not teach truth, it does not have Gods blessing nor His authority.
http://www.dgcoc.org/studies/Denom/lesson_4.h...
What man started the CC?. It is the only Church not started by a man.
It was the only Christian Church for 1500 years. Jesus must have started it and it doesn't have God's blessing?

Please name 1 COC of member from 100 AD to 1800 AD. Just one. It must be hard to be in the position of claiming to be the Church Jesus started and it took Jesus 1800 years to created it.

You probably have sports heroes, political heroes, family heroes, but it is sad you have no Christian heroes for 1700 years after the Apostles died. There is a blank hole there.

How can you explain those 1700 years.

Yet. Yet, you claim the book that the CC created the written word of God, but not its teachings.

How do you blow that away

Y

Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#146 May 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What man started the CC?. It is the only Church not started by a man.
It was the only Christian Church for 1500 years. Jesus must have started it and it doesn't have God's blessing?
Please name 1 COC of member from 100 AD to 1800 AD. Just one. It must be hard to be in the position of claiming to be the Church Jesus started and it took Jesus 1800 years to created it.
You probably have sports heroes, political heroes, family heroes, but it is sad you have no Christian heroes for 1700 years after the Apostles died. There is a blank hole there.
How can you explain those 1700 years.
Yet. Yet, you claim the book that the CC created the written word of God, but not its teachings.
How do you blow that away
Y
The scripture does not warn us that the scripture, his word, will become corrupt, but rather that men will become corrupt and follow their own evil desires.

1 Timothy 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

The above verse applies to men in general from every background and race. We can see people all over the planet walking away from God-denying he ever existed.Example: France was once a christian nation, now we can barely find a believer in that country. The problem is not with God's word, it is from within the hearts of men.

In other words all believers are in the same battle, why do we fight against each other instead of our common enemie. We have the one true churches condemning other believers. How about we let God be the Judge.

You have yet to explain why the Pope has allowed the abuse of alter boys. Does he even have the power to put an end to it-probably not!

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#147 May 6, 2013

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#148 May 6, 2013
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#149 May 6, 2013
The printing press has become the catholics own undoing. They can no longer keep the word of God in their control.
William

Birmingham, AL

#150 May 6, 2013
"I said that people disagreed on the purpose of water baptism. But that almost everyone still believes it is a necessary thing to be done, regardless if it is for salvation or not. Example-Bobby believes baptism should be obeyed, but not in order to be saved. It is still commanded by Christ. Those heathen Ephesian gentiles would have been baptized. Yet you say no need whatsoever-but the Scripture says otherwise. Are you negating the commandments of God by your beliefs and tradition?"

Where in that Ephesian letter does Paul commend the Ephesian gentiles to whom he wrote that epistle for being water baptized? Paul was not sent to water baptize, he can't very well be commending them for something that he didn't tell them to do.

I really think that the CoC and the RCC need to develop their own translation of the Bible that completely edits 1 Corinthians 1 to read that Paul was sent to water baptize as part of the gospel that the resurrected Christ gave to him. That would be a real money-maker.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#151 May 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't hear about Paul from the RCC? Look how many letters of his the Church put in the Bible that you read and get your doctrines from. What are you talking about.
But Jesus gave the keys to Peter when Saul was still killing Christians.
If Peter Had the keys at that time why did Peter not go to Saul instead of the Holy Spirit sending another messenger. If Peter was the Pope why did he not send the messenger or give the message himself?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#152 May 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
What man started the CC?. It is the only Church not started by a man.
It was the only Christian Church for 1500 years. Jesus must have started it and it doesn't have God's blessing?
Please name 1 COC of member from 100 AD to 1800 AD. Just one. It must be hard to be in the position of claiming to be the Church Jesus started and it took Jesus 1800 years to created it.
You probably have sports heroes, political heroes, family heroes, but it is sad you have no Christian heroes for 1700 years after the Apostles died. There is a blank hole there.
How can you explain those 1700 years.
Yet. Yet, you claim the book that the CC created the written word of God, but not its teachings.
How do you blow that away
Y
Bobby has an excellent point. The catholic church was not started by any one man, but rather by men-plural-who left God's intent for the church and followed the devices of their own hearts.

It was the only Christian church for 1500 years? Read history Mike. How can you persecute something that doesn't exist?

I can't name all of the believers from 100 to 1800, but I can tell you there are a lot of them. A multitude actually, and they are our heroes.

Revelation 7:9-"After these things I looked and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...."
"These are the ones who are coming out of great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#153 May 6, 2013
William wrote:
"I said that people disagreed on the purpose of water baptism. But that almost everyone still believes it is a necessary thing to be done, regardless if it is for salvation or not. Example-Bobby believes baptism should be obeyed, but not in order to be saved. It is still commanded by Christ. Those heathen Ephesian gentiles would have been baptized. Yet you say no need whatsoever-but the Scripture says otherwise. Are you negating the commandments of God by your beliefs and tradition?"
Where in that Ephesian letter does Paul commend the Ephesian gentiles to whom he wrote that epistle for being water baptized? Paul was not sent to water baptize, he can't very well be commending them for something that he didn't tell them to do.
I really think that the CoC and the RCC need to develop their own translation of the Bible that completely edits 1 Corinthians 1 to read that Paul was sent to water baptize as part of the gospel that the resurrected Christ gave to him. That would be a real money-maker.
Once again, another misunderstanding of Paul's meaning in 1 Corinthians 1. He also makes two references to baptism in Ephesians, in 4:5 and 5:26; he personally baptized the 12 disciples from John in Ephesus in Acts 19. He also discusses baptism in the Colossian letter, and many persons in various groups see Jesus' admonition in Revelation 2:6-to the church at Ephesus, to repent and do the first works-to refer to baptism (I disagree, but others see it as such).

William, you are just as guilty as those you accuse of editing their Bibles with your two gospel theory. Again, are you making the command of God of no effect by your tradition?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#154 May 6, 2013
Mike, calm down a little, I don't think any true believer is your enemy. We all have excess baggage that we have trouble trying to compartmentalize.

Personally no matter what others here may think. I think there is a lot of good stuff in the catholic church. I have a nephew who is catholic and has raised his family with all the attitudes and values I expect from any christian. He has a wonderful family and they stand out as high quality people.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#155 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby has an excellent point. The catholic church was not started by any one man, but rather by men-plural-who left God's intent for the church and followed the devices of their own hearts.
It was the only Christian church for 1500 years? Read history Mike. How can you persecute something that doesn't exist?
I can't name all of the believers from 100 to 1800, but I can tell you there are a lot of them. A multitude actually, and they are our heroes.
Revelation 7:9-"After these things I looked and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...."
"These are the ones who are coming out of great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".
Who was it that wondered if there were any believers and God assured them there were even if they thought not?
Dave P

Lexington, KY

#156 May 6, 2013
That would be Elijah would it not?
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#157 May 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
The printing press has become the catholics own undoing. They can no longer keep the word of God in their control.
It wasn't its undoing, the Church is still 1.2 billion strong, but it created the disunity that Jesus specially warned us about.

Everybody on their own, believing what they want. The Prot world all want to be shepherds with Authority, and no sheeps.

If you dont like what you hear in this Church, go next door.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#158 May 6, 2013
Dave P wrote:
<quoted text>
Bobby has an excellent point. The catholic church was not started by any one man, but rather by men-plural-who left God's intent for the church and followed the devices of their own hearts.
It was the only Christian church for 1500 years? Read history Mike. How can you persecute something that doesn't exist?
I can't name all of the believers from 100 to 1800, but I can tell you there are a lot of them. A multitude actually, and they are our heroes.
Revelation 7:9-"After these things I looked and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb...."
"These are the ones who are coming out of great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb".
Amen: It was started by Jesus through the 12 apostles.

Just name 1 non-catholic Christian between 100 and 1500.

And all those standing around were of 1 Church. The Universal Church.

The Church was on her 3rd Pope when John wrote that.

BTW: Your last verse. The white robes that the priests wear comes from that verse.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#159 May 6, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Mike, calm down a little, I don't think any true believer is your enemy. We all have excess baggage that we have trouble trying to compartmentalize.
Personally no matter what others here may think. I think there is a lot of good stuff in the catholic church. I have a nephew who is catholic and has raised his family with all the attitudes and values I expect from any christian. He has a wonderful family and they stand out as high quality people.
No Christian is my enemy. My goal before I die is to spread the Truth of the what the CC teaches and not what people hear from their parents and pastors.

It is bring as many I as can in the fullness of the Truth because I truly believe the CC is the one Church created by Jesus that is proven by History and the Bible and want all to participate in the greatest thing Jesus left us, his body and his blood.
William

Birmingham, AL

#160 May 6, 2013
"Once again, another misunderstanding of Paul's meaning in 1 Corinthians 1. He also makes two references to baptism in Ephesians, in 4:5 and 5:26; he personally baptized the 12 disciples from John in Ephesus in Acts 19. He also discusses baptism in the Colossian letter, and many persons in various groups see Jesus' admonition in Revelation 2:6-to the church at Ephesus, to repent and do the first works-to refer to baptism (I disagree, but others see it as such)."

Paul also laid his hands on those 12 "certain" disciples in Acts 19 who were Jews, btw, since they were baptized unto John's baptism, which was for repentence by Jews unto Isreal. Are we also to expect that the holy ghost has to come on us by the laying on of Paul's hands today?

And since he was not sent to baptize with water, he cannot possibly be referencing water baptism in any of his epistles. He was sent to preach the cross, not baptism, and there is nowhere in any of his epistles where he tells anyone that someone else is going to come along and water baptism. It's not there, because that's not what is going on.

Paul's gospel is not the same gospel as the one Peter preached, of vice-versa. Sorry that you can't bring yourself to see it.
William

Birmingham, AL

#161 May 6, 2013
I really wish that there was an edit feature for these posts. The phone typing is not all that it's cracked up to be.

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