Nicodemus ask, "How can this be"
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#162 Feb 8, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the 'great commission' part of the gospel?:-)
When you take the great commission into the world do you do exactly as it says?

Mark 16:15-18
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Do you drive out demons, speak with new tongues, lay hands on sick people and see them get well or drink poison and get well?

I have seen many on these threads talk against these things, so is it part of the gospel?
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#163 Feb 8, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
When you take the great commission into the world do you do exactly as it says?
Mark 16:15-18
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Do you drive out demons, speak with new tongues, lay hands on sick people and see them get well or drink poison and get well?
I have seen many on these threads talk against these things, so is it part of the gospel?
So I take it you're a "NO" on the great commission being part of the gospel? Even though in it Jesus says to go out into all the world and preach the gospel? You do recognize that the apostles and others were speaking in tongues, casting out demons, healing the sick, being bit by snakes? And, just because we do not read of anyone drinking poison does not mean it didn't happen or was wrong. It just means the Spirit didn't reveal it to us.

Those things were signs that accompanied those in the first century who believed and obeyed the gospel. Preaching, belief, baptism are responding to the gospel; those signs and salvation were results of responding to it. I believe you ask "what is the gospel, or what is part of the gospel" in error. We all know what the gospel is according to 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 1. Belief, repentance, confession, and baptism are not the gospel, but rather the response to that gospel. Jesus said we are to believe the gospel, thus belief and the gospel are not the same thing.

You and others use this argument to attempt to say that baptism isn't the gospel. I agree with that- the good news isn't being immersed in water. But, baptism is the conclusion of responding to that good news. What good is the gospel if there's no way to respond?
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#164 Feb 8, 2013
In all honesty, when you start trying to divide things up like this, it really amounts to nit-picking and attempting to get rid of something we don't like. We shouldn't have to do this. Actually, wouldn't response to the gospel be part of the gospel in itself? And really, what part of our Bible isn't the good news?

Since: Jan 10

Location hidden

#165 Feb 8, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>So I take it you're a "NO" on the great commission being part of the gospel? Even though in it Jesus says to go out into all the world and preach the gospel? You do recognize that the apostles and others were speaking in tongues, casting out demons, healing the sick, being bit by snakes? And, just because we do not read of anyone drinking poison does not mean it didn't happen or was wrong. It just means the Spirit didn't reveal it to us.

Those things were signs that accompanied those in the first century who believed and obeyed the gospel. Preaching, belief, baptism are responding to the gospel; those signs and salvation were results of responding to it. I believe you ask "what is the gospel, or what is part of the gospel" in error. We all know what the gospel is according to 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 1. Belief, repentance, confession, and baptism are not the gospel, but rather the response to that gospel. Jesus said we are to believe the gospel, thus belief and the gospel are not the same thing.

You and others use this argument to attempt to say that baptism isn't the gospel. I agree with that- the good news isn't being immersed in water. But, baptism is the conclusion of responding to that good news. What good is the gospel if there's no way to respond?
Great point.

Illegalist have hydrophobia. They fear water baptism.

www.roysecitycoc.org
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#166 Feb 8, 2013
New Guy wrote:
In all honesty, when you start trying to divide things up like this, it really amounts to nit-picking and attempting to get rid of something we don't like. We shouldn't have to do this. Actually, wouldn't response to the gospel be part of the gospel in itself? And really, what part of our Bible isn't the good news?
This is interesting because I see you the one as nit picking. When people in other churches obey in water baptism, you still refuse to accept them as brothers, I call that nitpicking.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#167 Feb 8, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Great point.
Illegalist have hydrophobia. They fear water baptism.
www.roysecitycoc.org
If we fear it then something must be wrong with your thinking because all of us in the bible church are water baptized by immersion.
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#168 Feb 8, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
This is interesting because I see you the one as nit picking. When people in other churches obey in water baptism, you still refuse to accept them as brothers, I call that nitpicking.
Again its about the reasons and modes. Some do sprinkling. Is that right?

Others are water baptized because they believe they're already Christians, to follow His example, to be baptized into "their church", etc. Jesus and Peter said it was for salvation, forgiveness, and the Spirit.

Is everyone ok simply because they're baptized, regardless of the reason? The Bible does not teach this. There is only one way to receive the Spirit. And yet we should accept everyone just simply because they've been dunked in water-regardless of their reasons, Gods reasons, and the results? Does God give His indwelling Spirit to those who don't obey His word, or for reasons that aren't according to His word? That is the real issue.notice I said indwelling. Cornelius and the Spirit falling on them is NOT the indwelling Spirit.

I'm nitpicking? Perhaps you're just being a little too loose with the word of God.
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#169 Feb 8, 2013
I hate using these phones sometimes. My typing skills aren't as good on them.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#170 Feb 8, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Again its about the reasons and modes. Some do sprinkling. Is that right?
Others are water baptized because they believe they're already Christians, to follow His example, to be baptized into "their church", etc. Jesus and Peter said it was for salvation, forgiveness, and the Spirit.
Is everyone ok simply because they're baptized, regardless of the reason? The Bible does not teach this. There is only one way to receive the Spirit. And yet we should accept everyone just simply because they've been dunked in water-regardless of their reasons, Gods reasons, and the results? Does God give His indwelling Spirit to those who don't obey His word, or for reasons that aren't according to His word? That is the real issue.notice I said indwelling. Cornelius and the Spirit falling on them is NOT the indwelling Spirit.
I'm nitpicking? Perhaps you're just being a little too loose with the word of God.
Tell that to the thief on the cross and that old guy I once knew who the coc could not get him completely submerged in the bath tub-he died lost-right? No nitpicking involved there just misuse of the scripture.

If God bases the gift of his HS on obedience, then no one can be saved. Jesus died on the cross because our obedience could never be sufficient to bring about salvation. Remember when I said you are teaching either baptismal regeneration or obedience regeneration? You are actually espousing/embracing both today, neither of which is biblical. There has never been a righteous man who was righteous through himself except Jesus.

One more thing we cannot keep our righteousness (Jesus righteousness imputed to us) by never sinning again. It is the same principle-we can't earn our salvation and we can't keep it through our own power. That is how helpless we are without our redeemer. That is why we must TRUST in him and his strength, not our own.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#171 Feb 8, 2013
Maybe we should take this baptism thing to the next level. Some might say, I was baptized by Paul or others might say I was baptized in the Jordan river or still others say I was properly baptized the the coc where we do it right.

Heck, why stop there, lets water baptize dead people to bring them back to life. Or maybe we should be baptized properly for those who have died so many years ago we do not even know where they are buried. Mormons do that and for some reason you will accept their water baptism and reject mine:)

There is way to much talk and effort spent on these threads on something that was never intended to be the savior. It fits in the same category as the OT law-it was never intended to impart life.
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#172 Feb 8, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to the thief on the cross and that old guy I once knew who the coc could not get him completely submerged in the bath tub-he died lost-right? No nitpicking involved there just misuse of the scripture.
If God bases the gift of his HS on obedience, then no one can be saved. Jesus died on the cross because our obedience could never be sufficient to bring about salvation. Remember when I said you are teaching either baptismal regeneration or obedience regeneration? You are actually espousing/embracing both today, neither of which is biblical. There has never been a righteous man who was righteous through himself except Jesus.
One more thing we cannot keep our righteousness (Jesus righteousness imputed to us) by never sinning again. It is the same principle-we can't earn our salvation and we can't keep it through our own power. That is how helpless we are without our redeemer. That is why we must TRUST in him and his strength, not our own.
Man, you guys won't let ol thiefy rest will you? Jesus personally forgave his sins. Can.Jesus look us eye to eye today in person and forgive us? No. He's at the right hand of the Father now, plus he was under the old covenant.
If God bases the gift of the Spirit on our obedience then no one can be saved. Guess Peter is wrong again. Acts 5:32-"God has given His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.". You are wrong about that, and also on your idea of regeneration. No matter how hard you spin, you cannot get baptism and obedience out of the regeneration-salvation experience. Ephesians 2:8-10 is held up as the prime example, without regard to context or the complete revelation of God. Passages like Acts 5 or 2 Thessalonians 1:8 are disregarded and ignored. Not to mention any passage that mentions baptism- it necessarily must become "spirit baptism", because water baptism cannot have anything to do with salvation.
Let us not even get on the fallacy of " the imputed righteousness of Christ". The Bible is clear that OUR faith is imputed to us for righteousness. The doctrine of His righteousness imputed to us is nothing more than the old rose colored glasses, sinless perfection teaching. I've got years of experience dealing with that.
New Guy

Olive Hill, KY

#173 Feb 8, 2013
Bobby wrote:
Maybe we should take this baptism thing to the next level. Some might say, I was baptized by Paul or others might say I was baptized in the Jordan river or still others say I was properly baptized the the coc where we do it right.
Heck, why stop there, lets water baptize dead people to bring them back to life. Or maybe we should be baptized properly for those who have died so many years ago we do not even know where they are buried. Mormons do that and for some reason you will accept their water baptism and reject mine:)
There is way to much talk and effort spent on these threads on something that was never intended to be the savior. It fits in the same category as the OT law-it was never intended to impart life.
Shaking my head at you now sir. So you say I accept Mormons baptism. Guess you haven't read anything I have ever said about them have you? For one, Mormons fall under Galatians 1- a false gospel preached by angels, according to their history. Another, my brother and his ex wife are Mormons. They may have been baptized for remission of sins, maybe not. Never got a straight answer. But anyway, they were taught and believed that the indwelling Spirit was given by a laying on of hands sometime after their baptism or start in the church. Much like confirmation in Catholicism and other groups. That is not Biblical, and I don't accept it. But more importantly, does God accept it? I do not believe so. Jesus hates false doctrine. Is He ok with it?

No one has ever said baptism was the savior. That's you "hearing" things again. But Tue real Savior did say that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Tell the Savior that He's wrong about that.
Full Circle

Earlysville, VA

#174 Feb 8, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Great point.
Illegalist have hydrophobia. They fear water baptism.
www.roysecitycoc.org
I do not think they fear water baptism. Comments like this do not help at all. I commend the new guy person for taking so much time to honestly discuss with these men things of God. You might should take notes.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#175 Feb 8, 2013
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
When you take the great commission into the world do you do exactly as it says?
Mark 16:15-18
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."
Do you drive out demons, speak with new tongues, lay hands on sick people and see them get well or drink poison and get well?
I have seen many on these threads talk against these things, so is it part of the gospel?
\
Bobby, I can't help but believe you know better than this...

To know the great commission is to take the record from all the accounts in Scripture. And as for Mark, if you read the whole thing, those who did those things mentioned there were those whose word was certified true BY those miracles.

If you're going to make a substantive point, please do so, but do avoid 'cheap shots' as this - we're above that level:-)
Walkinginlove

Danville, VA

#176 Feb 8, 2013
HEATH - 72 wrote:
<quoted text>
Great point.
Illegalist have hydrophobia. They fear water baptism.
www.roysecitycoc.org
No thats not true heath you were water baptized and you are a practicing illigalist.

Using Ezra 10 when there is nothing to justify it, forcing re-baptism of those already baptized under the authority of Jesus in order to join your denomination, not allowing a man to judge himself in the matter of the Lord's Table, not greeting with a Holy Kiss.

I read the first few posts of this thread and the last page and am not about to spend 2 hours reading the other 7 or 8 pages.

Calvan claims all are elected and unless you are elected you have no ability to be saved. God said his will was all would be saved. He stated it and I have yet to hear ANY CALVANIST explain how God can claim it be his will and then turn around and only pick some to be saved thus condemning all others to hell.

If God picks those who are going to be saved then he picks those who are going to hell, and if he picks those who are going to hell then his statement of his will being that none be lost is a lie and if he lied about that then he lied about being a liar when he said he was not a man that he should lie.

And if he lied about lying then the Bible is a waste of time.

I will note that the world has used Calvan's false belief to justify homosexual marriage since in their minds we are all born preprogammed to be attracted to a certain sex and have no control over it.

Calvan was out of balance and this has contributed to the worlds claims that people can not help themselves.

God makes many statements about man having a choice, choice between life and death, choice to do good or evil, that free will choice gives everyone a choice to follow God or follow their own will. And when they stand before God they will have no excuse for their choices.

Adam tried to blame God for Eve in the fall, how did that work for him? It didn't because Adam had a choice and be choose to follow his own will instead of God's.

1 Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

ALL MEN ALL MEN ALL MEN to be saved.....

How can his statement of desiring all men to be saved be true when he has preselected those who will not be saved?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#177 Feb 8, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Man, you guys won't let ol thiefy rest will you? Jesus personally forgave his sins. Can.Jesus look us eye to eye today in person and forgive us? No. He's at the right hand of the Father now, plus he was under the old covenant.
If God bases the gift of the Spirit on our obedience then no one can be saved. Guess Peter is wrong again. Acts 5:32-"God has given His Holy Spirit to those who obey Him.". You are wrong about that, and also on your idea of regeneration. No matter how hard you spin, you cannot get baptism and obedience out of the regeneration-salvation experience. Ephesians 2:8-10 is held up as the prime example, without regard to context or the complete revelation of God. Passages like Acts 5 or 2 Thessalonians 1:8 are disregarded and ignored. Not to mention any passage that mentions baptism- it necessarily must become "spirit baptism", because water baptism cannot have anything to do with salvation.
Let us not even get on the fallacy of " the imputed righteousness of Christ". The Bible is clear that OUR faith is imputed to us for righteousness. The doctrine of His righteousness imputed to us is nothing more than the old rose colored glasses, sinless perfection teaching. I've got years of experience dealing with that.
Hey, do you have any idea where Randy is?

So you believe that Jesus is at the right hand of the Father and cannot be living in us at the same time, right? See, that is the difference between you and I.

Christ in us is my hope of Glory, yours is based on physical things you can see like water baptism.

Peter says 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you. Because we cannot see Spirit baptism with our eyes we have water baptism as a symbol-something we can physically see and experience.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

It's pretty hard to believe in something or someone we cannot see, isn't it.

This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

Have you experienced that testimony yet.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

#178 Feb 8, 2013
New Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Shaking my head at you now sir. So you say I accept Mormons baptism. Guess you haven't read anything I have ever said about them have you? For one, Mormons fall under Galatians 1- a false gospel preached by angels, according to their history. Another, my brother and his ex wife are Mormons. They may have been baptized for remission of sins, maybe not. Never got a straight answer. But anyway, they were taught and believed that the indwelling Spirit was given by a laying on of hands sometime after their baptism or start in the church. Much like confirmation in Catholicism and other groups. That is not Biblical, and I don't accept it. But more importantly, does God accept it? I do not believe so. Jesus hates false doctrine. Is He ok with it?
No one has ever said baptism was the savior. That's you "hearing" things again. But Tue real Savior did say that he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. Tell the Savior that He's wrong about that.
To the best of my knowledge and research, the Mormons are directly linked with the restoration movement and Alexander Campbell. They do have the exact same views as you and the coc do on water baptism and you should accept their water baptism even if you deny them as brothers. Meaning that their baptism does not save them any more than it saves you or me.

I know you are careful to say that water baptism is not the savior but you still seem to favor it over Spirit baptism.

Mark 1:8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Now-do you have this baptism or not??? If water baptism is all that is necessary to get into Christ, why is there such a thing as spirit baptism. Spirit baptism is supernatural, it cannot be done with water that we can see, feel and touch.
Barnsweb

Alliance, OH

#179 Feb 8, 2013
Well, obviously you don't know what you think you are saying:-) Have you been to a doctor lately?:-)

What was Jesus talking about immersion into His name at the end of Matthew for? And at the end of Luke, how is it that when the Spirit comes upon them with power, that the sermon Peter and the disciples preached about Jesus concluded with immersion for sin and the gift of the Holy Spirit?

How do those fit into your carefully crafted gospel?
nobody

Nicholasville, KY

#181 Feb 8, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the 'great commission' part of the gospel?:-)
The great commission is a label referring to the ending of Matthew 28, at least that is what I understand it to be. No , I do not think it is part of the gospel in the Matthew verses. You might say it is part of the gospel only in the sense that the four books are referred to as the gospel and you take into consideration the label as part of Matthew. Since the words "great commission" are not in the bible and only a label, the gospel I believe is what the bible says it is. I look to the scriptures for a definition of what the gospel is.


1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

I also believe the gospel has been fulfilled.

Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
To know the great commission is to take the record from all the accounts in Scripture.
I do not believe that definition is correct for this reason, When Jesus said this all the accounts had not yet been written. Also the "great commission" is not in the bible. It is only a term used to describe the ending of Matthew.
nobody

Nicholasville, KY

#182 Feb 8, 2013
I think some evangelicals have abused he "great Commission" by teaching that everyone is supposed to take the gospel to the world. I do not believe that at all. The main purpose of the con men I have heard preach this was to secure your dollar bill for themselves. The world is a relative term in the bible to that time and like I said I believe it was fulfilled. Even if it is for today it is no more for everyone now than it was for everyone then. Why am I talking about the Great Commission? Send Bobby's doctor over here.

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