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41 - 60 of 234 Comments Last updated May 23, 2013
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#41
May 11, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
There is a Perfect Church. The one Jesus started. There are imperfect men in the Church and always has been. There have been bad Popes and Bishops and Priests, but the Church teachings on faith and morals are perfect. They are the Jesus taught the Apostles.
The "small t" traditions are just that. The Rosary for example. You can be a great Catholic and never say the rosary or ask Mary to pray for you. That is not a requirement. On Ash Wed, if do not want to receive the ashes on your forehead you don't have to. IF you eat meat on Friday during lent, you are not going to hell. It is simple fasting, which the Bible suggests is a good thing to do.
A Bishop is not an apostle, he is a successor to the Apostles. The Pope is the successor to Peter, the Vicar of Christ.
What did Jesus set up? The Kingdom of God. A Kingdom has an ultimate authority? In history when the King left his city, he gave literal keys to his Kingdom to the 2nd in command. There were the keys to the gates of the Kingdom and keys to the treasury.
Jesus gave these Keys to Peter and his successors because he was ascending to heaven.
If you believe in SS, then you believe Jesus left us a democracy with no Authority.
There will be no total unity as long as SS is somebody's doctrine.
But a person can be in unity with Jesus' Church and the rest of the 1.2 Billion whenever he hears the call and acts on it.
The church is made perfect by the blood of Christ, the pope or no other person can save us-the church should be a hospital for the weak and hurting-not the door to heaven. Jesus is the door and each believer can open that door with his faith.

Almost every word you use excludes any believer that is not catholic-I call that spiritual pride and prejudice. You sound very much like Heath and Johnny.

Back before the printing press the catholics could rule over the thoughts of men but no more! I do not need you are the pope to tell me what God's word actually says, I can read it for myself.

In the old days catholics read the scripture in latin and most did not understand the language, what benefit was there in doing that? I believe it was a way of keeping the control of what they wanted to teach. That is actually a cult tactic...
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#42
May 11, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
The church is made perfect by the blood of Christ, the pope or no other person can save us-the church should be a hospital for the weak and hurting-not the door to heaven. Jesus is the door and each believer can open that door with his faith.
Almost every word you use excludes any believer that is not catholic-I call that spiritual pride and prejudice. You sound very much like Heath and Johnny.
Back before the printing press the catholics could rule over the thoughts of men but no more! I do not need you are the pope to tell me what God's word actually says, I can read it for myself.
In the old days catholics read the scripture in latin and most did not understand the language, what benefit was there in doing that? I believe it was a way of keeping the control of what they wanted to teach. That is actually a cult tactic...
The Democracy of God. Sola Scriptura Sola Fide Believe what you want. Everybody has the truth.
Bizarre.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#43
May 11, 2013
 
Mike Peterson wrote:
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The Democracy of God. Sola Scriptura Sola Fide Believe what you want. Everybody has the truth.
Bizarre.
Doesn't the words sola scripture meany by "scripture alone".

Doesn't the words Sola Fide mean by "faith alone".

If we have the bible we have the truth. Unless, for some reason we can't trust the bible but are taught to only trust certain men like Johnny or Mike and accept their faith as our own.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#44
May 12, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the words sola scripture meany by "scripture alone".
Doesn't the words Sola Fide mean by "faith alone".
If we have the bible we have the truth. Unless, for some reason we can't trust the bible but are taught to only trust certain men like Johnny or Mike and accept their faith as our own.
It is Jesus' faith taught by the Apostles. I cant decide on a whim what a verse means. It was explained by the writers 2000 years ago. They were alive. They were explained then.

Yours is your faith taught by you. Scripture alone (as interpreted by you)

No difference than the other 30,000 churches out there. No difference. All interpreting the Bible to fit their beliefs. The HS must be on schizophrenic to Prots.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#45
May 12, 2013
 

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Mike Peterson wrote:
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It is Jesus' faith taught by the Apostles. I cant decide on a whim what a verse means. It was explained by the writers 2000 years ago. They were alive. They were explained then.
Yours is your faith taught by you. Scripture alone (as interpreted by you)
No difference than the other 30,000 churches out there. No difference. All interpreting the Bible to fit their beliefs. The HS must be on schizophrenic to Prots.
In the end every person has a choice to believe what he wants to believe whether it be right or wrong. In fact that is what you and I are doing without realizing it.

I have found that catholics are as divided over their beliefs as any other denomination. Yet you accept each other but not those awful protestants-they are sinners without God because they do not have the right church.

The coc's are the same way but only for the sake of the name and the basic water baptism doctrine they tolerate each other.

There is a reason why Christianity is commonly called the faith. Boil it down to one thing-we all believe Jesus is our savior and that he died on the cross was buried in a tomb and was resurrected on the third day.

As important as the bible and the church is in the lives of the faithful, it is possible for people to be saved without ever learning to read or ever stepping inside of a church. The gospel is really that powerful and cannot be owned and imparted by a few proud men. The best we can ever do is become co-laborers with Christ for the advancement of the kingdom. In other words we should be working together not against each other. The reason we cannot is because of the fallen nature and the deceiver of us all who is still at work. He comes but to kill to steal and to destroy.

Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

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#46
May 12, 2013
 
Bobby wrote:
<quoted text>
In the end every person has a choice to believe what he wants to believe whether it be right or wrong. In fact that is what you and I are doing without realizing it.
I have found that catholics are as divided over their beliefs as any other denomination. Yet you accept each other but not those awful protestants-they are sinners without God because they do not have the right church.
The coc's are the same way but only for the sake of the name and the basic water baptism doctrine they tolerate each other.
There is a reason why Christianity is commonly called the faith. Boil it down to one thing-we all believe Jesus is our savior and that he died on the cross was buried in a tomb and was resurrected on the third day.

As important as the bible and the church is in the lives of the faithful, it is possible for people to be saved without ever learning to read or ever stepping inside of a church. The gospel is really that powerful and cannot be owned and imparted by a few proud men. The best we can ever do is become co-laborers with Christ for the advancement of the kingdom. In other words we should be working together not against each other. The reason we cannot is because of the fallen nature and the deceiver of us all who is still at work. He comes but to kill to steal and to destroy.
I agree that all Christians have a lot of things in common. After all, all of them sprang out of the Catholic Church. A term I often hear is that we agree with the essentials. I cannot agree with that.

You say the catholic disagree with each other. I can't argue with that. But Catholic Church teaches the same things in every Catholic Church in the world.

If they don't they are reported and the Church corrects that teaching. If the Bishop cannot correct it, the Pope will send delegates to correct. Just like the Council of Jerusalem in the
NT.

Jesus taught 1 Truth, we all know that. Everybody quotes "the truth will set you free" It doesn't say Truths. Everybody will have to decide what salvation doctrine will truly set you free.

There are 30,000 out there to pick from. All were started by a man or woman except one.

Choose wisely and like many or doing start your own.

Since: Jul 11

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#47
May 13, 2013
 

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Dave P wrote:
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That is a sticking point with me as well. How do you argue against things that are the language of Ashdod, no authority in them whatsoever? You can't convince someone from the scriptures of their error when scripture takes a back seat to everything else.
That's why I'm not gonna give much attention to the RCC discussion- language of Ashdod.

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#48
May 13, 2013
 

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Lou wrote:
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Where do we see that Baptism is "into forgiveness of sin?" The baptism of John did not forgive sins. If it did than when Jesus was baptized He was forgiven of sin which we know was not the case. The majority of passages that address salvation never mention baptism let alone make the understanding of it a requirement of salvation. The only one that I am familiar with that appears too is Acts 2:38 which should be translated, "on account of the remission of your sins" indicating that baptism is something that takes place after salvation. Eph. 2:8-10 and John 3;16-18 makes it clear that faith and grace are the paths to salvation. 1 Cor. 11:12-14 indicate that when a person repents of their sin and puts their faith in Christ for salvation, they are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Whether they know this has taken place does not change what has happened. I have written more on this subject at http://gbcwashingtonin.com/BST%20-%20Baptism.... .
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVanswers/20...

http://www.padfield.com/2003/baptism.html

http://www.padfield.com/debates/watson-1.html

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/114...

http://www.bebaptized.org/EIS.HTM

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-acts-2-38.h...
Truth

Paris, France

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#49
May 13, 2013
 

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Lou wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do we see that Baptism is "into forgiveness of sin?" The baptism of John did not forgive sins. If it did than when Jesus was baptized He was forgiven of sin which we know was not the case. The majority of passages that address salvation never mention baptism let alone make the understanding of it a requirement of salvation. The only one that I am familiar with that appears too is Acts 2:38 which should be translated, "on account of the remission of your sins" indicating that baptism is something that takes place after salvation. Eph. 2:8-10 and John 3;16-18 makes it clear that faith and grace are the paths to salvation. 1 Cor. 11:12-14 indicate that when a person repents of their sin and puts their faith in Christ for salvation, they are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Whether they know this has taken place does not change what has happened. I have written more on this subject at http://gbcwashingtonin.com/BST%20-%20Baptism.... .
Thanks Lou for bringing the truth to this forum. Very good link. They will ignore the points you brought out because if they must back up on what they teach then they will be ostracized by the brethren.

“Janitor Custodian ”

Since: May 13

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#50
May 13, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
bubby boy you and DP double talking. You both say people can be baptised but dont really need to know why they getting baptised then you come at Lou with what all the verse says. If it says what you say and yes I think it do to then why you keep saying people dont really need to understand what its says then come back telling Lou what it says.

Since: Jul 11

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#51
May 13, 2013
 
mop-man wrote:
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bubby boy you and DP double talking. You both say people can be baptised but dont really need to know why they getting baptised then you come at Lou with what all the verse says. If it says what you say and yes I think it do to then why you keep saying people dont really need to understand what its says then come back telling Lou what it says.
I’m not double-talking. I believe the verse states the purpose of baptism- however, THAT PURPOSE is Gods job NOT OURS. We merely submit to baptism and God does the work- Col 2:11-12. We obey commands NOT results or promises. The command is “repent and be baptized”- the work of God is remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit- PROMISES/RESULTS.
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#52
May 13, 2013
 
JesusCreed wrote:
<quoted text>
I’m not double-talking. I believe the verse states the purpose of baptism- however, THAT PURPOSE is Gods job NOT OURS. We merely submit to baptism and God does the work- Col 2:11-12. We obey commands NOT results or promises. The command is “repent and be baptized”- the work of God is remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit- PROMISES/RESULTS.
If you were to come to the conclusion that your water baptism was a symbol of your salvation and not actually salvific (not having redemptive power), would you be re-baptized in order to get it right?

Since: May 10

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#53
May 13, 2013
 

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Lou wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do we see that Baptism is "into forgiveness of sin?" The baptism of John did not forgive sins. If it did than when Jesus was baptized He was forgiven of sin which we know was not the case. The majority of passages that address salvation never mention baptism let alone make the understanding of it a requirement of salvation. The only one that I am familiar with that appears too is Acts 2:38 which should be translated, "on account of the remission of your sins" indicating that baptism is something that takes place after salvation. Eph. 2:8-10 and John 3;16-18 makes it clear that faith and grace are the paths to salvation. 1 Cor. 11:12-14 indicate that when a person repents of their sin and puts their faith in Christ for salvation, they are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Whether they know this has taken place does not change what has happened. I have written more on this subject at http://gbcwashingtonin.com/BST%20-%20Baptism.... .
YOur article is full of misleading and false teachings. Eis was never rendered by anyone as on account of. Grace teaching is always taught with a response, for without a response no gift can ever be accepted. The conditions of the response are laid down by the word of God and yet you dismiss those as not of value. Some of the baptist faith have claimed that faith is the only thing you DO that is not DOING anything.:)

Lets look at your texts
16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His [e]only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the [f]only begotten Son of God.

First you have to look at context of the story. Go back to the first the topic is NEW BIRTH. vs 5 states
Jesus answered,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is speaking of baptism.

vs 18 is showing that a response is necessary for one to come to the gift of Christ. So there is an action needed on Mans part. Those actions are further seen in the biblical account.

Next Post Ephesians and I love that text.

Since: May 10

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#54
May 13, 2013
 

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Lou wrote:
<quoted text>
Where do we see that Baptism is "into forgiveness of sin?" The baptism of John did not forgive sins. If it did than when Jesus was baptized He was forgiven of sin which we know was not the case. The majority of passages that address salvation never mention baptism let alone make the understanding of it a requirement of salvation. The only one that I am familiar with that appears too is Acts 2:38 which should be translated, "on account of the remission of your sins" indicating that baptism is something that takes place after salvation. Eph. 2:8-10 and John 3;16-18 makes it clear that faith and grace are the paths to salvation. 1 Cor. 11:12-14 indicate that when a person repents of their sin and puts their faith in Christ for salvation, they are baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Whether they know this has taken place does not change what has happened. I have written more on this subject at http://gbcwashingtonin.com/BST%20-%20Baptism.... .
Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

First I believe the word faith there is actually speaking of The Faith as mentioned other places and is a package type meaning which include several things, however the most important part is the Gift.

It is free, it is unmerited, it is unearned, it is not of mans thinking up as verse nine clearly states, but it is of God thinking.

Here is the main point, a plan brought forth by Man can be boasted about. That would be a man made works formula, not a God conditioned formula. If God gives conditions to a gift they are Gods conditions that NO MAN Can brag about simply obey or not obey which ties into JOHN 3:16 Perfectly.

How do we know Gods Grace has conditions? Because he stated them. Look at the story of Joshua and the capture of Jericho. Before the battle GOD said he had given the city to them. Was it without any conditions????? NO they had conditions given to them yet it was still a gift. Is that true or false?

The truth is all gifts have conditions. If I gift you a 20 dollar bill there is only one condition unless I state otherwise. YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOUR HAND TO TAKE IT. NOw you can chose not to take it if you desire and that is what John 3:16 says.

I could also say you can have this 20 dollar will with other conditions and guess what you can chose to accept it or not.

ONe more point of Ephesians coming up.

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#55
May 13, 2013
 

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8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

So Following the plan of God is not of our works, works of merit, works of the devil, works of anyone other than Gods plan so that we can not boast. Belief, repentance, confession, baptism, living for God, does not fall into mans ideas but Gods, so then we can only boast in Christ.

verse 10 FOR we are HIS workmanship,(we can only boast in him) CREATED (made new) IN CHRIST JESUS (Key phrase) if you are not IN CHRIST you have no benefits. The phrase in Christ is fills up Chapter ONE this great Book, read it and tell me do we have any Blessing or life out of CHRIST.

Now two other passages.

Gal 3:26, 27

26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Romans 6

3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Now tell me which is a work of man, Sinners prayer or belief, repentance, confession, baptism, living and dying for Christ?
Bobby

Fort Worth, TX

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#56
May 13, 2013
 
Jesus answered,“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Anyone who believes in me may come and drink! For the Scriptures declare,'Rivers of living water will flow from his heart.'"

Is this river of "living" water a literal water ans a literal river that we can go to to be water baptized in? Is that river the Jordan river?

Do we drink the water literally?

This dove tails with what Peter said: 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The question is this: Does literal h20 water have the power to save?

I believe this living water represents the gift of new life that Jesus was telling the woman at the well about.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#57
May 13, 2013
 
mop-man wrote:
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bubby boy you and DP double talking. You both say people can be baptised but dont really need to know why they getting baptised then you come at Lou with what all the verse says. If it says what you say and yes I think it do to then why you keep saying people dont really need to understand what its says then come back telling Lou what it says.
I agree with Randy's response. Mop-man, there's a big difference if you translate it as "because of remission of sins". It means forgiven before baptism. Randy and I don't believe that.
Dave P

Morehead, KY

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#58
May 13, 2013
 
Bobby I take the living waters to be the Spirit, John 7:37-39.

Since: Jul 11

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#59
May 13, 2013
 

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Bobby wrote:
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If you were to come to the conclusion that your water baptism was a symbol of your salvation and not actually salvific (not having redemptive power), would you be re-baptized in order to get it right?
I don't see baptism as a symbol nor salvific. The water has no efficacious/saving/meritorious power...... but its more than a mere symbol. Its God at work- Col. 2:11-12.

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#60
May 13, 2013
 
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks Lou for bringing the truth to this forum. Very good link. They will ignore the points you brought out because if they must back up on what they teach then they will be ostracized by the brethren.
I disagree. Very easy link to refute.

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