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Mitchell Ferguson

Washington, DC

#1 Sep 5, 2013
The Protestants on here are lacking explanation on the Canon. Shall we discuss this more that they might see.
canon explained

Los Angeles, CA

#2 Sep 5, 2013
Mitchell Ferguson wrote:
The Protestants on here are lacking explanation on the Canon. Shall we discuss this more that they might see.
I think we shall. With a little help from my friends Mark and Mike.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#3 Sep 6, 2013
Shall we begin with The Letter of Clement. Do our Protestants on here accept this ancient text? What do our Protestants make of the Book of Jasher? My point is we (the Catholics) are why you have the canon. Deny this till the world ends but it is true.
Mike Peterson

Jackson, MS

#4 Sep 6, 2013
Mitchell_Ferguson wrote:
Shall we begin with The Letter of Clement. Do our Protestants on here accept this ancient text? What do our Protestants make of the Book of Jasher? My point is we (the Catholics) are why you have the canon. Deny this till the world ends but it is true.
It is amazing to me that their sole rule of faith is a book and they do not have a clue about the history of the book.

They don't realize a bunch of Catholic Church Bishops and leaders set around a table drinking wine and decided between themselves what these protesters were going to worship one day.

It is easy to see one Bishop saying if you vote for 1st John, I will not vote for the Shepherd of Hermas. The other might have said. Okay I will give you Jude and I will give up the Didache.

Think about it. You accept this Catholic decision made like any infallible Council decision for the last 2000 years and yet you play make believe that you are your own Council and decide what this book means.

Guys and Gals, you can't help you were born a Protestant, just like an immigrant can't help he was born in where he was.

But there are people out there who want to find the Truth just like immigrants want to find a new life.
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#5 Sep 6, 2013
Mitchell_Ferguson wrote:
Shall we begin with The Letter of Clement. Do our Protestants on here accept this ancient text? What do our Protestants make of the Book of Jasher? My point is we (the Catholics) are why you have the canon. Deny this till the world ends but it is true.
In a sense I have to agree, but in another, totally disagree. The true part is that Protestants all trace their roots to the Reformation Movement by Luther and Calvin and such men. They all came out of Europe, which was captive to the Roman Church. The Scripture they had was from Rome, and that's all they had at hand to work from. But Rome didn't vet the Scripture as God commanded through Moses, Isaiah, Yeshua, or the twelve. As a result, Rome did a rather sloppy job. If Rome went back to the actual beginning of the Church, she would have known that the first century Church that was contemporary with Paul - they specifically rejected Pauls' writings to be Scripture - they accepted the Torah, the Prophets and the Lord.'The Lord' and His gospel teachings from God were recorded as the Spirit enabled them total recall of His teachings - they were there to hear Him and learn at the very feet of the Master Teacher from heaven. All other testimony of His teachings are second or third hand - and Paul abjectly fails the test to have known anything from the Teacher. So Luther and Calvin and following didn't base their faiths from what Yeshua said, but instead turned to believe Paul, and based their following on what Paul taught - and only heard Yeshua where there wasn't a contradiction.

John 7:40.16; "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me."
41.17; "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."
42.18; "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."
43.24; "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

We should get an indicator about Paul from this passage.

We have Scripture because someone wrote it. Someone preserved it for us to benefit from to carry on the faith that was once for all revealed to man.

However, Rome is not the only one who received the books and letters as written by the Twelve. So did the Church of the East. Why did Rome demand they change their Scripture to match what Rome said it was? Some in the East refused to change a word of it because they regarded them Holy and the very words from God that we are commanded to be careful to hear and do - not change to fit what we want to believe or what an apostate false apostle wanted them to be - who was in Rome after Peter.

We have more than Rome to attain the Scriptures. We have the Hebrew record of the OT and the Aramaic NT in English now, and should defer to the more original. And which ever one we have, we must align to what the Master taught - not the apostle found to be a liar who was always building himself up in the eyes of others.

As God said of Yeshua,'Hear Him.'

onediscipletoanother.org
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#6 Sep 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
It is amazing to me that their sole rule of faith is a book and they do not have a clue about the history of the book.
They don't realize a bunch of Catholic Church Bishops and leaders set around a table drinking wine and decided between themselves what these protesters were going to worship one day.
It is easy to see one Bishop saying if you vote for 1st John, I will not vote for the Shepherd of Hermas. The other might have said. Okay I will give you Jude and I will give up the Didache.
Think about it. You accept this Catholic decision made like any infallible Council decision for the last 2000 years and yet you play make believe that you are your own Council and decide what this book means.
Guys and Gals, you can't help you were born a Protestant, just like an immigrant can't help he was born in where he was.
But there are people out there who want to find the Truth just like immigrants want to find a new life.
That truth cannot be changed by a Church though. What did Yeshua say about elevating Mary? He said those who do the will of God as He taught it to be His mother, brother and sister. That is the truth He taught. If we want life, we must be partakers of His word, manner of life, and submission to do the will of God as taught by Yeshua. The record we have from the twelve should be regarded as what we are to abide in, if we are to abide in His words that lead to life eternal. It's about our faithfulness to do what He said - not what someone who wasn't one of His original disciples says. He is the authority and author of the Word of God. The Twelve passed on His words as authority, just as Moses passed on what God told him, which also spoke of our Master Teacher.(if we are disciples of Yeshua )
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#7 Sep 6, 2013
BW:

"Messianic jews" come in many flavors just like Protestants.

BW: Which ones are you chasing? Sound more like Torah observant ones.

So we can your vote that the canon is wrong.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#8 Sep 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
It is amazing to me that their sole rule of faith is a book and they do not have a clue about the history of the book.
They don't realize a bunch of Catholic Church Bishops and leaders set around a table drinking wine and decided between themselves what these protesters were going to worship one day.
It is easy to see one Bishop saying if you vote for 1st John, I will not vote for the Shepherd of Hermas. The other might have said. Okay I will give you Jude and I will give up the Didache.
Think about it. You accept this Catholic decision made like any infallible Council decision for the last 2000 years and yet you play make believe that you are your own Council and decide what this book means.
Guys and Gals, you can't help you were born a Protestant, just like an immigrant can't help he was born in where he was.
But there are people out there who want to find the Truth just like immigrants want to find a new life.
So true, my friend. I honestly believe if most Protestants seriously understood that SS is not even spoken of by Jesus Christ they would consider what we are telling them. I challenge any of them to find where Jesus commanded people to follow a SS. Do they not know that SS is comprised of writings that are incomplete. By this I mean the Church shared other epistles besides what are in the bible today. The canon alone should make Protestants question who they are, and why? What about other writing that circulated in the early Church? Protestants worship the bible not having no clue how it came about.

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#9 Sep 6, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
That truth cannot be changed by a Church though. What did Yeshua say about elevating Mary? He said those who do the will of God as He taught it to be His mother, brother and sister. That is the truth He taught. If we want life, we must be partakers of His word, manner of life, and submission to do the will of God as taught by Yeshua. The record we have from the twelve should be regarded as what we are to abide in, if we are to abide in His words that lead to life eternal. It's about our faithfulness to do what He said - not what someone who wasn't one of His original disciples says. He is the authority and author of the Word of God. The Twelve passed on His words as authority, just as Moses passed on what God told him, which also spoke of our Master Teacher.(if we are disciples of Yeshua )
You use (Yeshua) often which has me wondering if you might be from a sect of Protestants who mainly use the Torah. The 300+ years the Church did not have the canon do you believe they carried with them the Old Testament? Is this your position? Protestants pay very close attention here. How did the Church grow for so long without the bible you have today? Think about this now. If you say they were using bits and pieces of epistles do you not know that some of those are not in your bible today. This is a problem if this is your belief. You worship the bible when you have no idea at all how you even got your bible nor do you know that other writings were in circulation to the Church that are not in your bible today. How can you spin this to your favor? You canít. I beg of you to look at the facts and open your eyes to the truth. The Church made it for many many years without a bible yet you have the bible and are shattered into numerous groups all of which do not agree with one another.
MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#10 Sep 6, 2013
This comes from a Catholic who exposes this canon theory. You guys need more study.

http://answeringcatholicclaims.blogspot.com/2...
MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#11 Sep 6, 2013
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#12 Sep 6, 2013
MCOC wrote:
I can show you fallen away Catholics who are Atheists. What does that prove.

Nothing.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#13 Sep 6, 2013
The best MCOC can come up with is an anonymous cut and paste blogger named Russell and an anonymous cut and paste cult site.

Maybe MCOC would like to tell us about The Living Oracles, Alexander Campbell's version of the New Testament in which he changed or left out words with which he disagreed.

Maybe MCOC would like to tell us why the first edition of the "THE HOLY BIBLE, Containing the Old Testament, AND THE NEW: Newly Translated out of the Original tongues: & with the former Translations diligently compared and revised, by his Majesties special Commandment" contained books such as I and II Maccabees, Tobit, Sirach, Letter of Jeremiah, Baruch, Wisdom of Solomon etc.
MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#14 Sep 6, 2013
Who cares? The meat in those links show you to be what you are. You havenít had your coffee this morning have you
Barnsweb

Louisville, OH

#15 Sep 6, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
BW:
"Messianic jews" come in many flavors just like Protestants.
BW: Which ones are you chasing? Sound more like Torah observant ones.
So we can your vote that the canon is wrong.
Mike, I am not a 'Messianic Jew' follower. FYI, most Messianic's don't week out Paul from consideration. Some of the Eastern Orthodox Netzarim do not receive Paul's writings as Scripture. Considering first century Christians belief on the topic, those of Asia in Paul's day also abandoned and rejected him as an apostle. DSS area ancient writings also testify the rejection of Paul. It wasn't until the Gnositics and Marconians rejection of Jesus' word and saying Paul alone had the gospel that we find disciples of Paul that rejected what Jesus and the apostles taught.

The RCC accepted Paul as much Scripture as other. Some Eastern Orthodox accepted Jesus and shunned Paul's words that were not in accord with what Jesus taught.

Gnostics and Marcion taught grace without works and the end of the Torah - and both got their ideas from Paul. It's a matter of history. That many in the modern world also adopt this ancient heresy is just to show there is nothing new under the sun and that people today reject sound doctrine and the pure reasoning as taught by the Master.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#16 Sep 6, 2013
Barnsweb wrote:
<quoted text>
Mike, I am not a 'Messianic Jew' follower. FYI, most Messianic's don't week out Paul from consideration. Some of the Eastern Orthodox Netzarim do not receive Paul's writings as Scripture. Considering first century Christians belief on the topic, those of Asia in Paul's day also abandoned and rejected him as an apostle. DSS area ancient writings also testify the rejection of Paul. It wasn't until the Gnositics and Marconians rejection of Jesus' word and saying Paul alone had the gospel that we find disciples of Paul that rejected what Jesus and the apostles taught.
The RCC accepted Paul as much Scripture as other. Some Eastern Orthodox accepted Jesus and shunned Paul's words that were not in accord with what Jesus taught.

Gnostics and Marcion taught grace without works and the end of the Torah - and both got their ideas from Paul. It's a matter of history. That many in the modern world also adopt this ancient heresy is just to show there is nothing new under the sun and that people today reject sound doctrine and the pure reasoning as taught by the Master.
So you have reached the ultimate bottom of Protestant food chain, below the 'Bible and Me' crowd to 'Jesus and Me'.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#17 Sep 6, 2013
MCOC wrote:
Who cares? The meat in those links show you to be what you are. You havenít had your coffee this morning have you
Who cares? Obviously you don't care that you are in a man made protestant denomination, spawn of the Baptist Church, created by Alexander Campbell. Don't you wonder why your worship space looks just like a Baptist Church inside but you have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why you sing Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and CofE hymns but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why your order of worship is exactly like that of the Baptist Church but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why you use a Bible created expressly for and by the Church of England but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church does not contain one syllable about the Church of Christ?

MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#18 Sep 6, 2013
If the Bible is a Catholic book,

1. Why does the Bible condemn clerical dress?(Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does the Bible teach against the adoration of Mary?(Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does the Bible show that all Christians are priests?(1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does the Bible condemn the observance of special days?(Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does the Bible teach that all Christians are saints?(1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does the Bible condemn the making and adoration of images?(Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does the Bible teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring?(Col. 2:12).
8. Why does the Bible forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"?(Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does the Bible teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter?(1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does the Bible teach that there is one mediator instead of many?(1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does the Bible teach that a bishop must be a married man?(1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is the Bible opposed to the primacy of Peter?(Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does the Bible oppose the idea of purgatory?(Luke 16:26).
14. Why is the Bible completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

Come on back Mitchell. Donít run when presented with FACTS!
MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#19 Sep 6, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Who cares? Obviously you don't care that you are in a man made protestant denomination, spawn of the Baptist Church, created by Alexander Campbell. Don't you wonder why your worship space looks just like a Baptist Church inside but you have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why you sing Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian and CofE hymns but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why your order of worship is exactly like that of the Baptist Church but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why you use a Bible created expressly for and by the Church of England but have no explanation as to why? Don't you wonder why Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church does not contain one syllable about the Church of Christ?
Here we go with this song and dance, again. Iím sure your church looks the same as it did in Acts of the Apostles.

1. Why does the Bible condemn clerical dress?(Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does the Bible teach against the adoration of Mary?(Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does the Bible show that all Christians are priests?(1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does the Bible condemn the observance of special days?(Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does the Bible teach that all Christians are saints?(1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does the Bible condemn the making and adoration of images?(Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does the Bible teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring?(Col. 2:12).
8. Why does the Bible forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"?(Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does the Bible teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter?(1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does the Bible teach that there is one mediator instead of many?(1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does the Bible teach that a bishop must be a married man?(1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is the Bible opposed to the primacy of Peter?(Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does the Bible oppose the idea of purgatory?(Luke 16:26).
14. Why is the Bible completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

-Micah
MCOC

Martinsville, VA

#20 Sep 6, 2013
The Catholic claim of giving the Bible to the world cannot be true because they have not been the sole possessor of the Bible at any time. Some of the most valuable Greek Bibles and Versions have been handed down to us from non-Roman Catholic sources. A notable example of this is the Codex Sinaiticus which was found in the monastery of St. Catherine (of the Greek Orthodox Church) at Mount Sinai in 1844 and is now in the British Museum. It contains all of the books of the New Testament and all but small portions of the Old Testament. Scholars are certain that this manuscript was made early in the fourth century, not later than 350 A.D. This manuscript found by a German scholar named, Tishendorf, who was a Protestant, and this manuscript which is the most complete of all has never been in the hands of the Roman Catholic Church.

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